» The Definitive DF01/TA01/2/FF01 Wheelbase Guide «

[OCD 514]

Instead of bombarding threads with my off-topic questions, I thought maybe it was time to start a thread just for the official wheelbases of the chassis that feature either a DF01 or TA02 chassis base.

These would include:

• DF01 (Manta Ray, Top Force, etc.) : chassis tub with hexagon pattern molded into the inside bottom.
• TA01 (touring and rally cars): same chassis tub as the DF01, but with one-piece TA01 rear arms.
• DF01/TA01 chassis tub with rear TA01 arms flipped?
• TA02 (touring and rally cars): "short" TA02 chassis tub with one-piece TA02 rear arms.
• TA02T (Prerunner trucks): "short" TA02 chassis tub with TA01 rear arms that are "flipped" into a swept-back position.
• TA02SW (Porsche 911 GT2, Lancia 037, etc.): "short" TA02 chassis tub with TA01 rear arms in standard swept-forward position.
• TA01T (AM General Hummer, JSDGF Vehicle, Mitsubishi Lancer): TA01 chassis tub with two-piece arms that are wide versions of the TA02 arms.
• FF01 (touring cars): "short" TA02 chassis tub with FF01-specific one piece arms that are similar in to TA02 arm dimensions.
• FF01 "Short" (Renault Clio, others?): "short" TA02 chassis tub, FF01 arms, but rear bulkhead is "flipped" to provide a shorter wheelbase.

Of course if I've forgot anything or made any mistakes in this preliminary list, let me know and I'll make edits. The idea is to gather a consensus on what the actual wheelbases are on these models, and then try to make them into some sort of organized guide. Feel free to post pictures of your measurements if convenient; the more supporting data we can collect, the more useful this guide can be We're looking for wheelbase measurements in millimeters, which is the distance from axle-center to axle-center. Let's see how they measure up!

 

[svenb 3778]

I think you know the wheelbase of my ta02 with flipped rear ta01 arms😂

[OCD 514]

Here is my kit-built TA02T chassis that I've measured:

It comes out to 255mm to my eye, which seems to be about 4mm more than what @svenb has found. Very confused, help!

[Juggular 4964]

DF01 Manta Ray looks to be 270mm.  

 

[Thommo 1218]

2 hours ago, OCD said:

Here is my kit-built TA02T chassis that I've measured:

It comes out to 255mm to my eye, which seems to be about 4mm more than what @svenb has found. Very confused, help!

 

From memory, I think Tamiya list the TA02T wheelbase as 255mm.  I think with the kit standard plastic tie rods and the servo centered a TA02T will have some toe in and a 255mm wheelbase as per above.  My TA02T has adjustable tie rods and runs closer to neutral 0 - toe then the wheelbase does come back closer to 251mm.

 

[OCD 514]

18 minutes ago, Thommo said:

 

From memory, I think Tamiya list the TA02T wheelbase as 255mm.  I think with the kit standard plastic tie rods and the servo centered a TA02T will have some toe in and a 255mm wheelbase as per above.  My TA02T has adjustable tie rods and runs closer to neutral 0 - toe then the wheelbase does come back closer to 251mm.

 

I like this theory; I believe the TA02T also has longer suspension travel and a taller ride height. It makes sense to me that the toe would increase as you compress the suspension Lower ride height: more toe-in.

So I guess the TA02 with the TA01 rear arms flipped with the lower ride height will give you a 251mm wheelbase? Maybe we should add the TA02MS (Mid, Short) to this list?

Input?

[Thommo 1218]

 

#EDIT#   Actually I'm not sure without checking but you have some caster (kick up) at play also so as the suspension compresses the front axles move rearward with the kick up and also the toe does change.

Your photo above is taken at full droop (suspension completely unloaded) so that is the maximum wheelbase I think.  I'm going to check this out because the caster and toe might cancel each other out as the suspension is compressed....

 

[Honza 937]

What's wheelbase of standard TA02 then? Because difference between rear arms is larger than 2mm...

TA02T uses TA01 suspension in front, too. TA02 front axle has longer arms, which is compensated with narrow knuckles. Does this affect wheelbase, too?

[OCD 514]

Good question, I actually put the the TA01(257mm) side-by-side with the TA02T chassis, and the TA01 still comes out about 2mm longer at the axles ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Gonna post more pics later today, cheers

[Tizer 606]

Just read the other topic. Interesting, I never thought about flipping the TA01 rear arms on the TA02 chassis to create a wheelbase inbetween. Smart! That way I guess you could also make something close to 270mm wheelbase with a TA01 and flipped rear arms. Not sure why you'd want to do that or for what body, but it's possible

I guess the wheelbase will also change slightly by flipping the rear knuckles to give toe-out instead of toe-in. The FF01 Civics have that as per manual actually.

[OCD 514]

On 2/28/2019 at 3:36 AM, Tizer said:

Just read the other topic. Interesting, I never thought about flipping the TA01 rear arms on the TA02 chassis to create a wheelbase inbetween. Smart!

 

Flipping the rear TA01 arms on a TA02 chassis was precisely how Tamiya opted to do the "TA02T" Prerunner trucks. It was a weird choice IMO as the wheelbase doesn't entirely suit those bodies, but works well enough I suppose.

 

On 2/28/2019 at 3:36 AM, Tizer said:

That way I guess you could also make something close to 270mm wheelbase with a TA01 and flipped rear arms. Not sure why you'd want to do that or for what body, but it's possible

I do wonder what this would come out to. The Hummer chassis uses a TA01 tub with some two-piece widened TA02 style arms, and that results in a solid 280mm wheelbase. Should we add a TA01"T2" to the list?

On 2/28/2019 at 3:36 AM, Tizer said:

I guess the wheelbase will also change slightly by flipping the rear knuckles to give toe-out instead of toe-in. The FF01 Civics have that as per manual actually.

Yep, all of these variations are giving us a spread of measurements. I'm also considering the added millimeters you'd get from measuring at full extension, since it's possible that you'd be taking a "diagonal" measurement if the axle heights aren't parallel to the chassis. I think this might explain why we get such vague and varied dimensions from Tamiya -- Even they're not sure

[OCD 514]

So at long last (I got busy lol), here's the TA01, TA02, and TA02T chassis lined up:

 

and wheelbase measurement for the 58099 TA01 chassis:

It's really difficult to photograph the ruler from a perspective that makes it look true, but I have the camera lens centered near the rear axle so we can see the actual measurement (I need to buy a really big digital caliper lol). In this case, I'm getting a pretty consistent 258mm, which is pretty close to the 257mm specified elsewhere.

[waterbok 1282]

Kind of might make sense to make a matrix of chassis,gearbox diff out,lower arms positions.

First TA01 and TA02 with gearbox and measure the distances between the diff out.

Next the variations of front and rear lower arms offset from diff out, build in both positions.

Same could be done for the width, maybe with outside of hubs as reference?

Old tech article

 

oh and if you really want to go crazy measurements with 180 rotated rear hubs (toe out), and then there is also 2 kinds of steering knuckles.

 

[OCD 514]

8 minutes ago, waterbok said:

Kind of might make sense to make a matrix of chassis,gearbox diff out,lower arms positions.

First TA01 and TA02 with gearbox and measure the distances between the diff out.

Next the variations of front and rear lower arms offset from diff out, build in both positions.

Same could be done for the width, maybe with outside of hubs as reference?

Old tech article

 

oh and if you really want to go crazy measurements with 180 rotated rear hubs (toe out), and then there is also 2 kinds of steering knuckles.

 

I'd love to have a measurement on that level of accuracy, but participation might be kinda low with that much data collection.

Still, though, a matrix would be useful... Does anyone here have the skills to put something like that together? I might be able to myself, but would probably take forever and not look very good lol.

I actually have that Bluefoot article bookmarked, but it doesn't really cover many useful dimensions. While I can appreciate the measurements for the driveshafts, unfortunately they've opted to measure the overall length, and not the more critical pin-to-pin dimensions. And there's nothing for wheelbase or track width, which is why I'm trying to do this here   

[waterbok 1282]

Think this could sum up the parts mix possibilities.

If anybody want to order these examples are from Seidels website

[OCD 514]

2 minutes ago, waterbok said:

If anybody want to order these examples are from Seidels website

I already have all of the parts pictured

[waterbok 1282]

Think i forgot the TA02W lower rear arms, kind of cant find those

found it https://tamiyabase.com/index.php?option=com_joodb&view=article&joobase=10&id=4778&Itemid=775

[OCD 514]

9 minutes ago, waterbok said:

Think i forgot the TA02 lower rear arms, kind of cant find those

And the 53226 Aluminum Front Hub Carrier:

 

TA02 50556 K Parts:

 

[waterbok 1282]

very good

[Fabia130vRS 2098]

5 hours ago, waterbok said:

Think this could sum up the parts mix possibilities.

If anybody want to order these examples are from Seidels website

Please help, have you ever orderd from seidel?

I tried last summer, the do not offer international shipping as I know.

[waterbok 1282]

33 minutes ago, Fabia130vRS said:

Please help, have you ever orderd from seidel?

I tried last summer, the do not offer international shipping as I know.

Oh sorry, always forget that. I live in Germany

[Thommo 1218]

On 2/27/2019 at 6:29 AM, OCD said:

I know, this is really bothering me, lol. When I measure the TA01 arms alone, I get a 14mm difference between the orientations, which gives a solid 237 & 251mm.

 

On 2/27/2019 at 6:18 AM, svenb said:

Ta02 with flipped TA01 rear arms

=251mm 

No idea why yours are 255mm and mine 251mm 🤔

 

Hi Gents,  I just spotted the conversation in the other thread and had to have a little giggle.  Now what I type next will either confuse you or maybe it will provide some clarity so here goes......

A TA02 with flipped TA01 rear arms will have a slightly different wheelbase to a TA02T......  WHY I hear you scream ?

The TA02T also uses TA01 front arms and uprights and there lies the difference.  TA02 front axle location differs from TA02T front axle location also and therefor an ever so slightly different wheelbase between them. 

My experience was when swapping the same body between these two exact set ups.  When dropped onto the TA02 (with flipped TA01 rear arms) the front wheels no longer aligned with the front wheel arches.  I found the difference to be the front arms and uprights / knuckles (front axle location) which of course is the only difference between these two set ups. 

So all of this plus the difference between measuring at rest and measuring at full droop with the suspension unloaded.  Checked again myself and the wheelbase does decrease with suspension travel due to the kick up on the front suspension so as you compress it, the front axles move rearward.

 

[OCD 514]

9 hours ago, Thommo said:

TA02 front axle location differs from TA02T front axle location also and therefor an ever so slightly different wheelbase between them

This is awesome 🍻 and great investigative work Thommo! Thank you for taking the time to do this. I had actually contemplated this earlier and it somehow completely slipped my mind to go back and do the measurements So what did you get for the difference between the two wheelbases?

[Thommo 1218]

 

I'm going off memory as I've on sold the TA02.  There was also a small difference in axle location when the standard TA02 rear arms were on the car.  The difference between the wheelbases is minimal, we're talking 1 or 2 mm max at rest but the axle location relative to the chassis and body was what surprised me at the time.  

 

[ruebiracer 1046]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 9:12 AM, Thommo said:

So all of this plus the difference between measuring at rest and measuring at full droop with the suspension unloaded.  Checked again myself and the wheelbase does decrease with suspension travel due to the kick up on the front suspension so as you compress it, the front axles move rearward.

That is exactly the effect I used to get my 40 years anniversary Porsche a Little more to 230mm wheelbase. Put the chassis to a more modern ground clearance down to 5mm in front. That moves the wheels back in the arches and it looks better. 

Very informative thread of all the backgrounds on TA´s, I ve clearly lack of knowledge on these early chassis generation...