SurreyDad

What to buy? (M-07R?)

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I have had a bit of a dilemma, I have received semi-sign off to buy a new car (this is a once a year thing at the very most) but there is so much choice. As I rarely get a chance to actually use them (kids not really that interested), the main point of my purchase is the build as I absolutely love that part of the hobby.
I/we currently have a Mad Bull, DT-03, GF-01 and an Axial Yeti (that I should sell although I know it is probably worth about a third of the amount that has gone into it). I was thinking of something totally different to these cars.

I've thought about the TT-02, the classic re-res, even the new Comical releases but I'm interested in trying a road car and so was thinking of the upcoming M-07R. Looking at the included hop-ups, the additional cost over the standard M-07 seems worth it..plus if I went with the standard car, I would just end up getting the hop-ups eventually.

I have never had a road car so it would be great to get anyone's opinions on this car plus I do have a couple of question that I really hope someone could help me with:

Probably the most important question first and a really newbie one..what sort of surface can these cars run on, i.e. how smooth does it need to be, will an outside car park be OK? It's not the smoothest and there are a few loose gravel patches.
The manual states that 'tolerances of parts are very tight, make threads using a Thread Forming Tap'. This isn't something that I have used before, how does it work, is it necessary to use this on all holes? #54232 looks suitable?
It seems that the road chassis either come without a motor or with a Torque Tuned. I am guessing that as the track surface is more consistent, then the motor is less stressed (although that could be complete rubbish). Can I get away with a brushed motor, (Sports Tuned) or should I really go brushless? I have a Castle Creations 3800KV motor in the Yeti that I could use but not sure if I should get something quicker?
Would any bodyshell that fits the M-05 or M-06 be suitable (as long as it has a 225mm wheelbase)?

Many thanks for any help.:)

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I've recently got an M-06 after about 2 dozen off-road bashers.   

M chassis are fine on car parks.  It doesn't have to be the smoothest, but gravel won't do.  

Back in the 20th century, my first RC was an on-road car (Porsche 956). I raced with it.  I suspected that the silver can would be enough.  Like you are doing now, I did ask.  TC members recommended staying with the silver can. 

Touring cars are quicker and nimbler, the hotter motor you have, the more likely you'd lose control.  I'd say to hold off on the motor until you get used to driving it.  Since I'm not racing, I have no plans to go beyond the silver can.  If I do, I'd stay with a brushed motor, maybe something mild like Torque tuned (I'm afraid Sport tuned would be too fast).  If you have access to an abandoned airfield, and you want to go as fast as possible on a straight line, you would need a hot motor.  But faster motors won't do you any good if you ever want to turn.  On road steering is quite sensitive to the power.  The more power you have, the harder it would be to steer.  (I don't know if FWD would suffer less in this regard. I have M06, which is RWD)

I suspect a threading tool won't be necessary.  I didn't need that with M06.  Just watch it careflly. If it's too tight, then drill it with a smaller bit.  For M3 screws, use a 2.5mm drill bit, for example. The screw will go in, threading.  If the parts are made with extra-hard material, get 2.7 or 2.8mm drill bits.  If that won't help, then use one "sacrificial" screw to tap, over and over.  When it's worn out after several holes, toss it, and use another.  After all, threading tool is a hardened screw.  

I'd start with viscous diff oil first. Maybe 250,000? (though the manual says 100,000, I would experiment)  It's easier to drive with viscous oil than watery oil in the diff.  If you don't want to bother with oils, use the Anti-Wear grease in the diff.  I found that the limited-slip action with AW grease in my M06 to be just about perfect.  (AW is generally too weak for off-roaders, but for on-road; it's good)  

Some shells have mounting holes pre-drilled, so if possible get a shell that matches (which is difficult to know, I don't think all M05 and M06 shells have mounting holes on same exact points).  Or getting one without holes would be better--so you can drill your own.  But if the difference is only few mms, that won't be a big deal.  

Best of luck to you, going from off-road to on-road is fun.  

 

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I run a non-R M07 on car parks and tarmac and it handles it just fine.  I would recommend a plug for the hole in the underside of the chassis though.  I got one from Shapeways and it works well at keeping debris out.  I avoid gravel but I don't think it's a huge deal unless you're looking to try rally driving.

2o4U1gs.jpg

I don't recall needing a thread forming tap for the stock M07 so that might be something to do with the R version.  The build itself I found to be one of my favourites so far.  It is quite a simple build but it all goes together really well.  So far I haven't found the need for any hop-ups for just having fun with it outside, and from what I've read the stock version is great out of the box for racing.  I don't have a tonne of on-road experience but out of my M07, FF03, TT02R and TT02S I'd easily rank the M07 as the best.

I've been running a stock silver can motor since I built the car.  I originally aimed replace it with something faster but I haven't actually found the need to.

The short bodyshells (210mm) won't fit as it only has medium (225mm) and long (239mm) wheelbase settings.  Some bodies have pre-drilled holes for the body posts that won't fit correctly, as I found out with my CRX shell.  I'm not certain which bodies this affects but it's only a minor cosmetic problem to drill a new set of holes.

There's also an M08 possibly coming out around July, which everyone assumes to be a similar design kit as the M07 but with rear wheel drive if that appeals a bit more.

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I may add, M06 is easy to built without thread forming tap, as it doesn´t use fibre reinforced plastics. M07 and R are doing so. But I built mine without forming the threads, you just need a good screwdriver, as the torque is higher when screwing for the first time.

When you want to fly over the gravel, it´s probably no M-Chassis. But depends also on the size of the gravel. When it´s some fine parkway gravel, you could also think about an M05 Ra, which is the Rallye spec version. So you can adjust the ground clearance depending on where you drive.

If you´re going real onroad and smoother tracks, and want the mentioned high build quality, the new M07/R is your choice. (if not switching to 4WD touring / Rallye Chassis.;)

Good luck for your decision,

Matthias

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Something to consider: Many say that the hop-ups that come with the R version are chosen in order to sell more hop-ups. And looking at the spec sheet, I think they might have a point. There are some hop-ups included that are not strictly necessary, and at least one that is not included which I wouldn't want to miss.

Take the blue alloy ball connectors for example. Pretty and a little lighter but no smoother than stock. If you want a lightweight option that gives a performance increase, the not quite as pretty but significantly smoother grey flourine coated alloy ones are better.

Missing from the R spec are the alloy steering rack and the alloy rear lower suspension arm mounts. Both of these give improvements in strength and reductions in slop, so you might want to consider adding them. You might also want to add the low profile carbon fibre shock towers as they lower the car's centre of gravity and allow you to use M size shocks rather than the longer touring car ones.

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Many thanks for all your responses, it looks like I now have official sign off. I popped down to the car park today and I think I exaggerated about the state of it, it is pretty smooth and there are just the odd small patches of gravel close to the edges.

That is great news about the motor, I have a spare brushless motor to pop into the GF-01 and I can take it's Torque Tuned motor and Hobbywing 1060 ESC.

Thank you for your response @TurnipJF, I was completely inspired by yours and @Blista's build threads. I have added the fluorine ball connectors to my order as well as the alloy steering rack and suspension mounts. I've also added the carbon fibre shock towers and then felt guilty for ignoring the bumper support...and then thought 'well I have added that, I might as well add that...and that...and that'.

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Sounds like it is going to be quite the epic build! Hope you do a thread on it!

Since you are going all-out on the hop-ups and are going to run brushless power, you might also consider metal cross shafts for the diff, part number 54311. The drivetrain is pretty tough for the most part but I have heard of people breaking the stock plastic cross shafts with higher powered motors.

While you are upgrading the diff, you had may as well also add an aluminium cover for it, part number 54602. Although not increasing performance over the standard plastic item, the aluminium one is stiffer and therefore less likely to become deformed causing oil leaks.

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Thank you very much @TurnipJF, I've never done a build thread before but I always take a load of photos for my records so I'll see how those go.

I've decided to just go with a Torque tuned for now (it was part of my bargaining argument...I'm saving money, re-using old parts..)...however, you can't beat a bit of future-proofing.

Could I just check, is the metal cross shafts part #54311? I couldn't find #54411. Also as a side question, what is the best way to find all compatible parts as the metal cross shafts did not appear under the M-07 section but they were under the TA-06 section? Is it a case of viewing the available parts per model along with the manuals to find cross compatibility?

 

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Just  my (personal) review about the needed hopups for the M07 with brushless:

-Metal internals in the diff and alloy side plate: not needed. (just making rotating mass bigger)

-Instead invest in the aluminum outdrives and double Joint cardans and the red o-rings for the diff.

-Aluminum rear axle holders: Never mounted them so far, never had an issue with the kit ones. Slop is not a Problem.

-Carbon shock Towers for the smaller dampers is o.k. and making sense.

-Steering on the M07 is very durable and Slop free. no alu parts needed for racing. (Only a few top Drivers use them in our Championship. (On an M05 the improvement was bigger.)

-Instaed invest in some alloy front and rear knuckles from 3 Racing, These are the needed Hopups, that Tamiya should have released for the R Version, because they fail during crashes.  

;)

 

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1 hour ago, SurreyDad said:

Thank you very much @TurnipJF, I've never done a build thread before but I always take a load of photos for my records so I'll see how those go.

I've decided to just go with a Torque tuned for now (it was part of my bargaining argument...I'm saving money, re-using old parts..)...however, you can't beat a bit of future-proofing.

Could I just check, is the metal cross shafts part #54311? I couldn't find #54411. Also as a side question, what is the best way to find all compatible parts as the metal cross shafts did not appear under the M-07 section but they were under the TA-06 section? Is it a case of viewing the available parts per model along with the manuals to find cross compatibility?

 

Sorry, yes. The metal cross shafts are indeed 54311. Typo corrected in earlier post. 

The diff used up front in the M-07 was first seen in the rear of the TA-06, so the hop ups ought to be shown as applying to both models.

Not sure what the best way is of discovering cross compatibility. Possibly a site like Tamiyabase?

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58 minutes ago, TurnipJF said:

Sorry, yes. The metal cross shafts are indeed 54311. Typo corrected in earlier post. 

The diff used up front in the M-07 was first seen in the rear of the TA-06, so the hop ups ought to be shown as applying to both models.

Not sure what the best way is of discovering cross compatibility. Possibly a site like Tamiyabase?

Actually, a good site for checking cross compatibility is modellbau Seidel. Usually, they state the option parts or what models the part fits, too. No Advertising here, but I can´t remember finding a failure in their cross references. So worth a check, if you search something for a specific model.

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8 hours ago, ruebiracer said:

 

-Invest in some alloy front and rear knuckles from 3 Racing, These are the needed Hopups, that Tamiya should have released for the R Version, because they fail during crashes.  

;)

Good shout on the knuckles/hubs. I broke a stock rear one on my first outing with my M-07. I upgraded to the carbon reinforced parts from Tamiya and haven't broken anything since, but the alloy 3Racing ones are also good from what I gather.

You might also consider the Yeah Racing alloy ones. Judging by the quality of their other upgrades for the M-07, they ought to be well up to the job and are a nice colour match to the blue anodising of the Tamiya alloy parts.

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Thank you both, I had already added the rear knuckles/hubs and have now just added the front ones (strangely Tamiya do not seem to do the front knuckles/c-hubs so I have gone with Yeah Racing).

It looks like the M-07R comes with the aluminum outdrives and double Joint cardans shafts.

I think that I now have everything apart from the body + paint to go :D

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On 3/1/2019 at 1:18 PM, SurreyDad said:

The manual states that 'tolerances of parts are very tight, make threads using a Thread Forming Tap'. This isn't something that I have used before, how does it work, is it necessary to use this on all holes? #54232 looks suitable?

The Tamiya Thread Forming Tap (#54232) is one of the best purchases I made, I did ponder for far too long before actually getting one but now I use it at every opportunity (along with a decent ratchet tap thing), the problem with both drilling and using regular taps is that these remove material, just going for it with a regular screw puts stresses that I'd rather avoid. I've had no parts fail around the fixing since using it, the tap does exactly as described, it forms a thread (rather than cutting it)

Can't recommend it highly enough, no M3 screw goes in a hole without it, also excellent for reforming holes where self-tappers have been such that they can be replaced hex head M3's

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Many thanks for the advice @colda that is very helpful and I've just ordered one, I guess the more kits I use it on, the cheaper it becomes!?

@TurnipJF, I haven't decided on the shell yet, I'm still trying to understand my options. Although I am not too bothered about authenticity with regards to FF, FR, MR, etc. it looks like the Mazda 2 (239mm) and the Suzuki Swift (225mm) will fit correctly. I do prefer the look of the HPI shells (Datsun 510, 240z, etc.) and i can imagine these in some nice 1970s oranges, lime green, browns, etc. I think that once I have the shell and it's on the body, I'll wait for inspiration to hit and decide on the colour scheme then. :D

 

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If you have any plans to race it, or if you simply want to bash it around without having to go and put it on its wheels every time it rolls over, might I suggest the Suzuki Swift shell? Or possibly the Fiat 500? The rounder the body shell, the better your chances are of it rolling a full 360° and landing up back on its wheels if you overcook it through a corner. Even if the car lands up on its side, turning into the roll and blipping the throttle should flip it back onto its wheels. The flatter more aerodynamic looking shells might look really nice, but if you roll them, there is a good chance they will come to rest on the roof and require somebody going over and flipping them right way up again.

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I am just about to purchase a M07 for car park racing. I went for the Mazda shell. 

Everywhere appears to be running out of stock at the moment. Haven’t decided if the R is worth it. Some good info in this thread already. 

E4DC9F3B-5EC4-45ED-B0AC-157ABE8F3DA9.jpeg

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I am sorry I missed this thread. If you can cancel the shock towers it would be a good idea as the 07 is way better outdoors with std shocks. Also you get the TRF shocks with the 07R so the low towers will not work. :( 

The only thing you should look for is the thread forming tap. It’s great for using machine screws in plastic.

The rest of the stuff should fit, and assuming you are not racing they will be fine. (Alloy hubs are not great on the front of a car if you race) 

Onroad stuff is great, I’m looking forward to see your build. :) 

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Many thanks @qatmix, I went with the standard carbon shock towers as opposed to the low towers, hopefully they will just be a straight replacement for the standard parts. I've also ordered the thread forming tap and hopefully there will be many more kits to try this on :D

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Yep the standard ones are great :) They will fit like a glove :) 

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