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Darug

Wild Willy restoration pt3

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Hi, this  is  continuing on from my Previous post. My battery arrived, however,

I am still confused as to what servo motor to order. I only seem to find esc types? I am after one from the asian area as the freight will be  cheaper.

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You want to keep the MSC?  Most standard servos should fit. 

You'd have to cut one part. Maybe that's why you think only ESC would fit?  Just use an old servo.  

nJOhaMC.jpg

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I have to admit, I am not that familiar with all the terms etc. According to another forum, my transmitter is ok. Because there are 9 x 1.2v in, the meter reading is low. 

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On 4/2/2019 at 10:01 PM, Darug said:

I am still confused as to what servo motor to order. I only seem to find esc types?

"Servo" and "ESC" in restoration setting made me think of MSC (Mechanical Speed Control).  Because Wild Willy1 did control speed with a servo. I thought you did not want an ESC.  

I suppose you wanted a steering servo?  There are literally thousands of servos.  "RCMart" or "RCJaz" are located in Hong Kong, and it should be a short hop in Asia.  I would recommend "standard size" because there are actually bigger sizes that won't fit.  RC airplane sizes are often too small too.  Talking about standard, Futaba S3003 was the old standard. But there are far better servos out there.  S3003's torque is 3.2kg, but even a $4 servo has 4kg torque, $8 ones could have 10kg torque.  Wild Willy being big and heavy, it could use something stronger than a servo with 3.2kg torque.  You won't even need something as strong as 10kg, because the built-in servo saver won't transfer all that force anyway.  

Digital servos are not necessary.  It takes more energy to run those.  And they are designed to hold onto precise angles.  That is very important for airplanes, but not really for cars.  Off-road bashers often have servo savers, so it's impossible to hold onto precise angles like airplanes anyway.  Analog servos should do fine.  

14 hours ago, Darug said:

According to another forum, my transmitter is ok. Because there are 9 x 1.2v in, the meter reading is low. 

I'm guessing here... but your servo is not working, and you thought your transmitter was the problem?  

Old transmitters used to have 8 x 1.2v.  I have not heard of a transmitter that takes 9 AA batteries.  With 8, your voltmeter should read high.  These days, most new 2.4Ghz transmitters take 4 AA batteries.  Transmitter voltmeter reading low is not good, so maybe you need to replace the batteries? 

 

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Posted (edited)

It works!  Who'd think so after 30 years of inactivity. It looks like I will need some new futaba plugs, though what does the white wire do? It didn't look like it was attached to anything other than the far lug? The resistors started smoking up after being plugged in for a few minutes.

I have tried looking for replacement plugs, but not had any luck. I have found j connectors, however I want to keep them similar to the original is possible. 

Edited by Darug
Addition

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Careful on those resistors! MSCs are meant for high(full)speed running; if you're only going slowly indoors those resistors will heat up... they can get hot enough to melt the M38's bonnet!!

Upgrade to an ESC if you're going to run it a bit.

ESC will replace the throttle servo & switchgear with a single electronic unit. Also you won't need the 4xAA battery cradle for the RX.

However slight complication on M38 being the steering servo sits on top the throttle servo... so you need something there to sit the steering servo on.

Easiest route is to get an ESC that's small enough to sit in the shelf meant for 4xAA. Leave the MSC & servo in there, disconnected. 

 

Also Futaba has changed their plugs since then. The old style "F shape" plugs are called "G", whilst the new/current standard is "J" plug. Gs aren't commonly found anymore, but you'll need them to plug into your receiver.

Or make an adaptor. The 3 servo lines are Black -Ve, Red +Ve and white Signal. Old radio gear should talk to modern servo/ESC gear fine. Don't get the wires crossed!

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5 hours ago, Darug said:

sorry to rain on your parade but that ESC is meant for smaller 1/16 RCs :( plus they're really only worth $5-10 max. They come on HSP 1/16s. 

that said I have used them before temporarily on crawlers with silvercan 540 or higher turn (ie slower/less current) motors, they work ok & haven't complained - wasn't long though only until a proper ESC arrived

 

An M38 needs a decent ESC too... one with good current capacity. Find a QuikRun 1060 as a minimum... they're usually about $20-30ish. 

M38 on its kit silvercan motor goes surprisingly (scarily!) FAST; it draws a fair bit of current to pop a wheelie when you dump the throttle. I have tried lesser ESCs with a lot less 'punch' and the wheelie action is compromised.

Also assuming the original motor is still strong & serviceable. If worn out or damaged it'll draw more current for less performance. Sadly M38 needs the early "plastic endbell" silvercans; modern silvercans are metal endbell nowadays & it's wrong sized to fit that mount. Also the original pinion is pressed on, no screw.

 

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Thanks for that info. If anything, I am just worried about the resistor melting the body, so if it's still usable, I'll stock with it,  until I can buy the other one. 

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Posted (edited)

Looks like my receiver is dead, as when initially I plugged the wires in, and smoke came from the crystal. I guess I need a new transmitter/receiver.

 The servos don't respond at all.

When the nimh battery is plugged in, it goes in reverse and I can move the speed controller by hand.

I was going to put the esc in to test it out, but was unsure what wires to connect up where.

So this esc would be suitable?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F232917047564

 

As far As a transmitter and receiver https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F251470592111

 

Edited by Darug
Esc

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Posted (edited)

I have to admit, I am not that familiar with all the terms etc. According to another forum, my transmitter is ok. Because there are 8 x 1.2v in, the meter reading is low. 

Correction  re batteries

Edited by Darug
Correction

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On 4/7/2019 at 4:45 AM, Juggular said:

"Servo" and "ESC" in restoration setting made me think of MSC (Mechanical Speed Control).  Because Wild Willy1 did control speed with a servo. I thought you did not want an ESC.  

I suppose you wanted a steering servo?  There are literally thousands of servos.  "RCMart" or "RCJaz" are located in Hong Kong, and it should be a short hop in Asia.  I would recommend "standard size" because there are actually bigger sizes that won't fit.  RC airplane sizes are often too small too.  Talking about standard, Futaba S3003 was the old standard. But there are far better servos out there.  S3003's torque is 3.2kg, but even a $4 servo has 4kg torque, $8 ones could have 10kg torque.  Wild Willy being big and heavy, it could use something stronger than a servo with 3.2kg torque.  You won't even need something as strong as 10kg, because the built-in servo saver won't transfer all that force anyway.  

Digital servos are not necessary.  It takes more energy to run those.  And they are designed to hold onto precise angles.  That is very important for airplanes, but not really for cars.  Off-road bashers often have servo savers, so it's impossible to hold onto precise angles like airplanes anyway.  Analog servos should do fine.  

I'm guessing here... but your servo is not working, and you thought your transmitter was the problem?  

Old transmitters used to have 8 x 1.2v.  I have not heard of a transmitter that takes 9 AA batteries.  With 8, your voltmeter should read high.  These days, most new 2.4Ghz transmitters take 4 AA batteries.  Transmitter voltmeter reading low is not good, so maybe you need to replace the batteries? 

 

Sorry it should have read 8 × 1.2v

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33 minutes ago, Darug said:

I have to admit, I am not that familiar with all the terms etc. According to another forum, my transmitter is ok. Because there are 8 x 1.2v in, the meter reading is low. 

Correction  re batteries

what batteries...? Alkaline or rechargeables? It expects 7x alkalines or 8x rechargeables to avoid over voltage.

 

you also need to power the receiver with another 4x AAs...? 

Or did you manage to reverse polarity the receiver = smoke :( 

if so... buy the Flysky.

 

With these old transmitters, sometimes the Meter isn't for showing battery voltage - it's measuring the RF output strength instead -_- it's showing what power of signal is getting transmitted, which is a product of frequency tuning, aerial length etc.

Low battery power would show up as low output on meter too. A missing/bad TX xtal would show low or zero on signal power, as would if the RF stage has gone badly out of tune due to aged capacitors or water damaged coils etc.

 

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As Willy said, that ESC (one on the left on below pic) is only for lighter vehicles.  Something like the Grasshopper with 380 motor, or Hornet with 540 silver can.  I would feel uncomfortable using it on much heavier Willy's M38.  But I have one in Midnight Pumpkin, which is heavier. Since you bought it, you might as well give it a try.  But, Hobbywing Quicrun 1060 is a better one that can handle a lot faster motors. 

HCva4Bz.jpg

As for Flysky, if I were you, I'd spend $10 more and get GT3C.  

You can get a GT3C for $38 USD. (I have GT3B, but GT3C is a better model--it uses only 4AA instead of 8)  It gives you more control than GT2E you were looking at.  Like EPA (End Point Adjustment), Dual Rate, Exponential, on top of Trim and Servo Reverse that all radios come with.  GT3C also comes in a few different colors.  

JKEQvye.jpg

Also, GT3C has 10 model memory.  And receivers are only $7 each.  If you happen to get another car, just spend $7 more for an extra receiver. "Bind" it to your GT3C, and Voila!  One transmitter controls 2 cars. (not at the same time)  The point is, you just don't have to spend much money to equip another car. (Which allowed me to double my fleet--to my wife's dismay)  As I tell my wife, these are not for future cars, these are for retrofitting old ones.  But TC members can guess what I might do with them... 

96KRSnp.jpg

 

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whee... you might’ve more GR3Es than me....! 

 

meh... GT2E is less complicated, no digital screen to muck up ;) 

 

And you CAN bind multiple RXes to GT2E - I believe the RX is the one who stores the bind data not the TX. 

All bound RXes will operate simultaneously. :) it’s handy for either multiple cars or even multiple RXes in the same car :D if day you need double servo outputs eg CH1, one at each end of car. Instead of Y-adaptor at servo lead, run a power lead extension to 2nd RX. 

 

 

either way it’s too hard to troubleshoot radio problems without a known working setup to swap with.

Commonest way to smoke an RX is to connect power wrong polarity or to its signal line. Wrong polarity usually blows the servos too. 

Those old Futabas are just AM standard, so if you can borrow another known working AM RX of any brand with servo/S etc it will respond to same signal to confirm TX is operational. 

 

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I’ve got a GT3B and it is a bit of a pain.

I don’t find it especially easy to set up, it takes 8 batteries which make the handset heavy and I always forget to turn it off, so the screen drains the batteries. 

 

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