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JennyMo

Hopper’s HiLux - 2WD stepside Dually pick-up

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Ah, and then I got distracted for a moment...

i-mwxNSX7-XL.jpg

I know I said I wasn't going to think about an interior just yet, but with the motor and gearbox (and servo in the post), I thought it prudent to make sure everything would ultimately fit together before any exterior painting started...

That's my excuse anyway ;o)

Jx

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On 4/24/2019 at 6:21 PM, JennyMo said:

I've had a revelation!

Something was bugging me about the stance of the body on the chassis... as I mentioned above, with the load-bed flat on the rear chassis rails, the cab looked a little high - particularly over the front wheels/arches - even though the chassis itself was essentially level.

So I had a quick noodle on the internet (particularly the threads and galleries here on TamiyaClub), and what do you know, it turns out that actually the original 58028 HiLux (on which this cab and rear body-tub is based) is not actually mounted the way the holes in the Loops bulkhead suggest/line-up - ie. as if placed on a flat surface together - rather, the rear load-bed is mounted a little higher than the base of the cab, as these photos from Shodog and njmlondon illustate:

i-vr25z9p-L.jpg

photo. borrowed from njmlondon.

Wow Jenny that photo takes me back. I loved that truck... so annoyed I sold it. 

I am playing around with my Bruiser / Mounty and have a Loops rear bed ready to go too. I am going in a slightly different direction to you (keeping it more Bruisery) but some of the spring / wheel / damper choices you are exploring have piqued my interest and I have a few questions if that is OK.

On 4/21/2019 at 12:36 AM, JennyMo said:

I took a punt on two pairs of 1/14th scale 'Tamiya Tractor Truck' leaf springs from Xtraspeed, factoring that the shorter length of 104mm centre to centre (and potential overall stiffness) ought not be an issue with this low-rider style build - and indeed be arguably more scale looking than the longer softer springs designed for articulation you get with the TF2 as standard.

i-K4bgDLg-XL.jpg

photo. 1/14th Tractor Truck spring set - fortunately these share the same dimensions and hardware as a 1/10th scale leaf-spring chassis.

Those springs look interesting. I have mulled over using shorter springs myself to lower the overall stance. I am happy to lose articulation but would like to increase suppleness if that makes sense.

What is your overall feeling on these leafs? I have the standard re-re Bruiser leafs and some RC4WD soft TF2 ones but like the look of these a lot.

On 4/21/2019 at 12:36 AM, JennyMo said:

I also bought another Yota scale rear axle (as I did for the Mega-Bug recently) and paired this with a rigid alloy front axle for a 1/14th Tamiya Tractor Truck, which actually has a similar overall width to the narrow Yota rear axle (185mm).

It's worth noting that while the Yota scale rear axle is exactly the right width to mount up with leaf-springs to the Gelande pattern chassis (approx 79mm centres), at the front, the 1/14th rigid axle actually has 74.5mm centres (ie. not quite 75mm as far as I can tell), which means the front shackle mounts needed to be moved inboard 2mm on each side so that everything lined up correctly. This was achieved with some M3 2mm thick spacers, an ultimately the front nubs on the chassis will have to be ground down by 2mm on the outside face so that the shackles can be snugged up against the springs.

Getting my head around this there are 2 questions. If I am right, I believe the Tamiya 3-speeds have 76mm width leaf-to-leaf up front. So combining a RC4WD Bruiseruptor axle in the rear with these track axles may well work on a normal Tamiya chassis. Would you agree?

And if you do, what are your thoughts re gearing? Are the Tamiya truck axles similarly geared to the RC4WD Yotas? And if not, will the difference affect handling?

On 5/11/2019 at 10:58 PM, JennyMo said:

At the rear, I was always intending to fit double dampers anyway, and the 1/14th Truck dampers (just over 50mm long eye to eye) fortunately come in sets of six - and fundamentally are short enough to fit between the lower damper mount on the axle, and stay below the bottom of the load-bed too - another result!

i-KKmsJjj-XL.jpg

It's worth noting that these Truck dampers don't have M3 ball ends, rather use step screws (approx 3.5mm diameter) to mount them in their original application. This meant I had to get creative, and ended up using a series of cone washers to centre the dampers on the M3 screws I used - plus in the rear dampers I put a small silicone bush (cut from a length of 4mm diameter tubing and squished in the lower damper mounts) to centre everything while still allowing the dampers to move on their mounts as the suspension compresses and extends.

 Loving those 50mm shocks / dampers! Are you using the springs in them too as well as the leafs, or are you just using them as dampers? If damper are they oil filled?

 

On 4/26/2019 at 8:13 PM, JennyMo said:

i-tsb47Bn-XL.jpg

 

i-KL2ND7L-XL.jpg

For one moment I forgot you were using hex and thought you may have hit on an amazing way to use Bruiser hubs with the 3 bolts. I don't suppose you have one to hand to see if they line up?

Cannot wait for the next instalment!

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12 hours ago, njmlondon said:

Wow Jenny that photo takes me back. I loved that truck... so annoyed I sold it. 

I am playing around with my Bruiser / Mounty and have a Loops rear bed ready to go too. I am going in a slightly different direction to you (keeping it more Bruisery) but some of the spring / wheel / damper choices you are exploring have piqued my interest and I have a few questions if that is OK.

Those springs look interesting. I have mulled over using shorter springs myself to lower the overall stance. I am happy to lose articulation but would like to increase suppleness if that makes sense.

What is your overall feeling on these leafs? I have the standard re-re Bruiser leafs and some RC4WD soft TF2 ones but like the look of these a lot.

Getting my head around this there are 2 questions. If I am right, I believe the Tamiya 3-speeds have 76mm width leaf-to-leaf up front. So combining a RC4WD Bruiseruptor axle in the rear with these track axles may well work on a normal Tamiya chassis. Would you agree?

And if you do, what are your thoughts re gearing? Are the Tamiya truck axles similarly geared to the RC4WD Yotas? And if not, will the difference affect handling?

 Loving those 50mm shocks / dampers! Are you using the springs in them too as well as the leafs, or are you just using them as dampers? If damper are they oil filled?

 

For one moment I forgot you were using hex and thought you may have hit on an amazing way to use Bruiser hubs with the 3 bolts. I don't suppose you have one to hand to see if they line up?

Cannot wait for the next instalment!

Hi NJM' - firstly, a personal thank you for letting me 'borrow' your photo from the archives (I ought to have PM'd you first, but trust you appreciate the context within which I wanted to use it anyway), let's see if I can shed some light on your questions:

1. I would say that the [104mm] truck springs are actually slightly stiffer than the [115mm] RC4WD springs, although it could just be down to the shorter length of course - they are not appreciably softer though if that is what you're looking for. That said, I'm currently using two leafs on the front, if you ran just single leaf you might find they correspondingly softer?

I'd say they are a 'medium' weight - in that they ought to support the weight of the motor/servo etc in the metal chassis without sagging too much once the build is complete. I'm not sure if someone does manufacture 'soft' springs for the 1/14th scale trucks?

 

2. As far as I can tell, the centre of each spring saddle [ie. the centre of the two holes] on the 'Yota' scale axles are 78mm width, but with leaf springs and shackles there is a degree of jiggle of course. (I measured my chassis rails at 79mm centres for example). However, if the Tamiya chassis rails are 76mm centres, you might find the Yota axles a touch too wide to line up (unless you grind off the spring saddles and use the Bruiser U bolts of course) - alternatively I imagine you could space the shackles a mm or so wider if required?

 

3. I'm sorry I can't confirm the gearing of my [copy] axles, but according to RC4WD, the diff ratio is 2.67:1, and I imagine mine are the same as they look to be a direct copy/made in the same factory as the RC4WD version. How does that compare to the Bruiser diff ratio?

I'm not completely up to speed with the under-drive/over-drive set-ups some people use for crawling, but presumably they use a slightly higher or lower ratio in each axle so that the front is pulling slightly more or less depending on what they want. Not sure how that is going to work handling/transmission wind-up wise on hard-surfaces or trail running, but I think I can see the benefit of having the front axle rotating slightly faster than the rear when climbing on loose terrain for example?

 

4. Yes, those 1/14th Truck shocks are cute aren't they? - and the upper body is just 8mm diameter, so very scale. These Hot Racing ones do come with internal springs (which are very soft to be honest) and currently I've left them in - although I may well take them out during the final assembly to see if the suspension is appreciably softer or not. The are not 'oil filled' as such, but do have a trace of oil in for lubrication presumably. 

 

5. Sorry, no Bruiser wheels here (I do love them though!), but I can tell you the PCD of the Tamiya 1/14th Truck wheels appears to be 17.5mm, so pretty much exactly the same as a SLW 6-bolt hub pattern that Vanquish & Locked-Up RC etc. use.

 

Hope that helps!

Jenny x

 

 

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Hi Jenny

Thanks for all the replies! Very useful. Going to get some of those leafs myself for a project. I want to keep the Bruiser chassis but give it more of a Vintage Hilux stance so straighter springs may work for me. Worth a go anyway.

BTW feel free to use any images I ever put up in my showroom!!

Looking forward to the next instalment.

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This has got to be my favorite in between so many incredible vehicles you've created. What a fantastic piece of work. I'm loving it.

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I'm a real fan of all stepside pickups but this looks amazing. What's the wheelbase? Or is it in there somewhere and I missed it. I'd love to put it on a cc01 chassis if I could?

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On 5/23/2019 at 12:38 PM, Busdriver said:

I'm a real fan of all stepside pickups but this looks amazing. What's the wheelbase? Or is it in there somewhere and I missed it. I'd love to put it on a cc01 chassis if I could?

Hi Busdriver - I thought I had mentioned it in the text somewhere, but apparently I haven't!

According to RC4WD, their Trailfinder 2 wheelbase is 287mm* (11.3 inches).

*which is also the same as the original Tamiya HiLux 58028 model.

I believe the Loops step-side body is essentially a direct replacement for the RC4WD regular rear body tub/HiLux step-side body, however, I reckon my wheelbase is actually 282mm (or a sniff over 11 inches) with the wheels centred in the arches.

Not sure you can stretch a CC-01 chassis to that wheelbase or not? - but looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

Jenny x

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Thanks for the info. Alas may be a while as I have Arnies ride to finish and I have just purchased a Dynahead that I'm hoping to make look better with possibly a loops hardbody unimog and new wheels. It's going to be slow and expensive(the process not the vehicle) the body alone is $100+ along with new wheels and tires etc so not cheap

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21 hours ago, Busdriver said:

Thanks for the info. Alas may be a while as I have Arnies ride to finish and I have just purchased a Dynahead that I'm hoping to make look better with possibly a loops hardbody unimog and new wheels. It's going to be slow and expensive(the process not the vehicle) the body alone is $100+ along with new wheels and tires etc so not cheap

Aha - a 6x6 Unimog is going to be awesome - so full speed ahead with that one for sure!

I know what you mean about the cost of some of these body sets, and then when you factor in wheels and tyres too of course... I used to think £300 for a Sand Scorcher kit was crazy, but that is small change these days once you start more custom [scale] builds, where you can easily spend £200 on a set of aluminium wheels and scale tyres!

I always try to keep my costs in check where possible, but sometimes there is no substitution for buying the 'right' part/s, particularly when you are going for a more authentic look?

Have fun amassing and building!

Jenny x

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What I might do is get a Tamiya body to play with and if it all works get a Loops one. They do a crew cab version thats even more expensive but looks cool. Just have to keep raiding the piggy bank! After all it's only money and you can't take it with you. The kids'll just have to wait a bit longer:rolleyes::D

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So having been distracted by the dashboard detail (and the rest of the interior - the door panels for example have lots of detailing and separate arm-rests, window winders and handles to attach!), I thought I would assemble and install the complete 'cabin' to see how much room I'd have to drop the footwells to a more realistic depth:

i-bs6t3S2-XL.jpg

photo. flat floor is basically the bottom of the seats.

 

i-3prg4Cc-XL.jpg

photo. footwells cut out either side of the transmission tunnel.

 

i-txvrgFJ-XL.jpg

photo. mocking up footwells and extended bulkhead with cereal packet panels.

 

i-vMzTqGJ-XL.jpg

photo. ultimately I've decided to use a 2:1 transfer box to help drop the drive from the back of the motor/gearbox more in-line with the rear axle diff... and this now requires the sides of the transmission tunnel to be tapered. It's also going to require a REALLY short prop shaft to join them!

Since this build is going to be more of a traditional 2WD 'runner', there is no real need (or indeed desire) for a typical crawler ratio transmission - for example in this instance, the planetary gearbox already reduces the speed of the motor 5:1, while the axle diff ratio is 2.67:1 according to the specs - so I factored that would likely give a good spread of realistic [ie. scale] speed using the 27T Tamiya Torque Tuned motor.

However, while I could simply utilise a central bearing carrier (which I've already bought) to help support a pair of prop-shafts directly between the planetary gearbox and the diff (a distance of around 180mm, so a bit too long for a single prop ideally - although they are available in that sort of length for the 1:14 scale trucks of course) - that solution would require a custom crossmember to mount it to my chassis, and even then the installation is likely to be a little compromised both visually and alignment wise compared to the off-the shelf solution I've used on the Defender and Jeep builds (which use the same chassis and motor/planetary gearbox layout).

The only downside of course is that the 2:1 ratio of this additional central/vertical transfer case [in the final photo above] is that it lowers the overall output speed by half again (albeit essentially doubling the torque of course), so while the vehicle is likely to drive realistically at slow speed, it's not going to have much more trail speed than a modest walking pace at best, and certainly no 'donut-ability' so to speak.

But for now, it provides the neatest installation to allow the vehicle to be a runner at least, while I can always experiment with faster turn motors etc. if it turns out to be too sedate.

The other upside of using this intermediate transfer case (even though I'm only using the rear axle output in this instance of course), is that it also reverses the rotation of the prop (if you recall from my Jeep build, the Tamiya Torque Tuned motors are directional), and because the rear axle is essentially upside down in this build (being mounted with the leaf-springs under rather than over the axle), everything is now rotating in the correct orientation for the motor when driven forwards - which kind of makes me think it's the 'correct' solution anyway.

cont.

 

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cont.

So with the interior dimensions sorted (for info. I've lowered the footwells by 20mm, which provides clearance above the upwards curve at the front of the chassis, and also a very neat compartment under the bench seat as a battery holder for a traditional 6-cell stick pack - as is my way), I thought I'd prep and prime the rear body tub, and see how things looked overall:

i-wPggwwL-XL.jpg

photo. you might notice I've started to 'damage' the edge of the doors with a fine Dremel tip, where various rust and weathering will be added. Similarly the wheels will be rusted (with flaking white paint on top) much as I've done with TaMater.

 

I also treated myself to another indulgence while I was in my local hobby shop recently:

i-LncZv34-XL.jpg

photo. ProLine load-bed tool chest (now a discontinued product), with added accessories from my existing stash.

 

i-PnV8Jzc-XL.jpg

photo. tailgate will be reattached with working hinges.

I'm not sure this build will ultimately feature the tool chest (or that I'll put it in the back of the Jeep instead perhaps?), but certainly the theme is that this will be more of a working truck rather than a desert racer* for example...

*although I admit I am going to be shoehorning in a 5.7litre V8 from a Tundra under that hood - once it arrives from China ;o)

 

The other thing I did was to replace the majority of the M3 button-head screws on the chassis with these really neat hex-head bolts from Locked-Up RC - although it is an utter indulgence really as the majority will be hidden (or at least very hard to spot) once the body is installed. I'll know they are there though ;o)

i-CRRZ6xW-XL.jpg

photo. I'm also experimenting with a rear tow-bar/crossmember - and who knows, maybe even a rear winch since there appears to be the perfect space for one now!

More soon!

Jenny x

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A few more parts arrived while I was away this weekend:

i-r7nKCf7-XL.jpg

I am in danger of being obsessively 'scale' with this build...

First up some scale hub nuts (with their own fitting adapter - uses a stock 7mm hex head Tamiya wrench which is nice) for the rear axle - I bought a set of 4 so I have a pair for TaMater too.

Two 112mm-150mm sliding prop-shafts - I thought I'd got the drivetrain sorted, but may experiment further, this way I can shorten either prop as required.

A mix of 100mm and 55mm length 3mm adjustable link rods - currently the steering gear is using 6mm diameter links and M3 threaded ball-ends, which look a bit chunky and are really overkill for this build (it not being a crawler for example), so using the 3mm rods will slim down everything for a more scale appearance. Since they were sold in sets of 5, I have some spares for other projects too of course.

Time to get back on with this build I think - in the meantime, the scale hubs fitted to the Tamiya Truck wheels (a perfect fit) in a Brusier stylee!

i-35gFVgq-XL.jpg

 

Jenny x

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Prop-er job!

Ok, strike what I said about using the 2:1 transfer case - although potentially it would line up ok, the ultra-short shaft required to join to the planetary gearbox meant the motor had to be lower (fouling on the front axle under full compression) or the transfer case needed to be mounted higher - potentially compromising the interior, and basically not as neat/secure as having it properly located between the chassis rails using the proper bolt holes...

So it was out with the centre support bearing again (it's tiny!), and see if I could come up with a way to mount it - and a short brainstorm later, I realised I had a spare front crossmember/servo plate that would work perfectly in the centre location with the end tabs cut off (as I had done already at the front of this chassis so the grille panel would fit) :

i-ZF7j7GF-XL.jpg

photo. 4 x M2.5 holes required to mount the centre bearing with M2 screws.

 

i-3XgFVn3-XL.jpg

photo. centre bearing carrier mounted - note I had to trim the flange off the prop end so the grub screw located in the hole in the shaft (see below).

i-n77np3w-XL.jpg

 

Fortunately the front crossmember has tapped holes at 10mm centres, which line up perfectly with the series of holes in the middle of the chassis rails too - all I had to do is countersink the two screws which would be hidden by the body mounting brackets, while the other two share the same bolt hole as the body brackets, using the scale M3 hex bolts:

i-Vp75jGG-XL.jpg

cont.

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cont.

The result is the centre 'skid plate' section, with a cut-out allowing the rear prop plenty of clearance, while also allowing enough room behind the bearing carrier for a 6-cell battery pack to be mounted horizontally above, under the bench seat:

i-Rc7Qmp6-XL.jpg

photo. the four holes that would be used to mount a servo at the front will be perfect to mount supports for the battery tray above the prop.

 

cont.

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cont.

I then took a gamble on cutting down my second (of the pair) of prop shafts to make a 50mm long one to join the planetary gearbox to the centre bearing:

i-ZmM7N7S-XL.jpg

 

Since these props use CV joints rather than U joints, they ought to be smoother running at this more acute angle - however, rather than being multi spline they are essentially a solid rod within a tube (as you can see in the photo above), with just one machined flat face to transfer the drive, and although they slide the full length inside one another, the flat face at the CV end appears to taper out inside the outer tube, so the two halves currently spin...

The simple solution is to buy a 45-55mm dedicated 'shorty' splined prop from Yeah Racing (the same as I used in the ebaYJeep and Lisa's D90) - however, I'm going to experiment with packing the shaft with quik-steel first, since I've nothing to loose now they've been cut anyway - and this centre prop between the gearbox and centre bearing is a fixed length anyway (ie. no need for it to slide now the length has been decided).

cont.

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Engine transplant...

So now that there is no transfer case [essentially reversing the motor rotation] as I mentioned previously, it means the Tamiya Torque-Tuned motor would now need to spin in reverse to drive this vehicle forward, as the rear axle/diff is upside down with the leaf-under axle set-up I've employed.

So I swapped the motor with a 35T non-directional motor (from RC4WD) I had in my spares stash, which means it ought to work equally well in both forward and reverse now, albeit a touch slower than it might with the 27T motor I'm presuming... still, by eliminating the 2:1 transfer box, it means the vehicle will run much faster anyway - I'm not good with these sorts of [gearing] calculations, so I'll wait to see what the actual top speed and drivability of this set-up, and adjust it according if required.

However, while the actual motive power has been changed for something slower, visually at least - what might well have been a lumpy old 2.5 litre four-pot diesel engine under the hood has also been replaced with something far more impressive:

i-dzmc2CF-XL.jpg

photo. A scale V8 engine motor cover, with built-in fan.

The level of detail is excellent (and it's injection moulded, not 3D printed, so smooth surfaces are actually smooth ;o) - I was also surprised to find it came 90% ready assembled in it's own box - although being [presumably rapidly] assembled in a Chinese factory somewhere, typically some of the tiny screws were loose/had worked loose in transit - so I took the opportunity to pull it apart (primarily so I could fit the optional exhaust headers), and will ultimately do that again to paint the various rails and wires/plus caps etc. as part of the final build.

I've elected to remove the fan mechanism already as I do not envisage it being required, so this is just for cosmetic effect in what will become a fully detailed engine-bay:

i-FPKJT4p-XL.jpg

photo. the detailing is impressive - including spark plugs, leads, exhaust and intake mainfolds... you can also buy a single or dual air-filter kit. I just might have to ;o)

 

i-9WtbB9L-XL.jpg

photo. fits perfectly between the shock towers, and helps to hide the servo too. Ultimately I intend to fabricate a radiator cowl and various hoses to further detail the engine bay and hide the electronics.

 

And finally for now, checking the bonnet still fits with the new engine in place:

i-cVJxX5q-XL.jpg

photo. The ultimate street-sleeper, now with a 5.7 litre V8 under the hood!

 

More soon!

Jenny x

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Wow, just WOW. This is way above my attention span/eye for detail, but can really appreciate the effort you put into your builds. Thanks for sharing!!!

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I got confused and thought I was on the  SBG forum for a moment!

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9 hours ago, Badcrumble said:

I got confused and thought I was on the  SBG forum for a moment!

Hee hee - yes, it's kind of going that way isn't it?

I am a member over there but haven't posted any build threads yet... I figured that the ebaYJeep would probably be my passport to that particular club (and do intend to summarise that build there at some point), but this is perhaps even more to their liking?

Jenny x

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17 minutes ago, JennyMo said:

Hee hee - yes, it's kind of going that way isn't it?

I am a member over there but haven't posted any build threads yet... I figured that the ebaYJeep would probably be my passport to that particular club (and do intend to summarise that build there at some point), but this is perhaps even more to their liking?

Jenny x

Removal of transfer case to allow for more interior space, your planned interior details, suspension changes, wheel nuts, scale engine...I reckon this would fit right in!

TBH, I think this, the Jeep and maybe even the Defender would go down well 'over there' given your fabrication ability and attention to detail. They even use some Tamiya bits sometimes...

Please don't desert TC though!

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While I've been messing around with the engine bay, Louis has got himself a skateboard...

i-db2rHj8-XL.jpg

Jx

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Filling, in time...

As per a few posts above, I managed to create a shorty mid-prop (fixed length) using the two cut ends, then drilling and tapping the outer with an M3 thread so a set-screw would do up tightly against the flat face inside:

i-4Xjfmrt-XL.jpg

 

I then mixed up some Quik-steel, and forced it into the remaining joint using the end of an Xacto knife, let it set and then sanded to finish:

i-DsvhrF6-XL.jpg

...the result is a fully CV jointed transmission, which I tested quickly with a battery directly to the motor terminals - it seems to spin reasonably fast/scale - but once the vehicle is fully running with an ESC etc. then I may swap the current 35T motor for a faster 20T for example.

One other thing I started on is the final pre-paint prep of the bodywork... while the Loops RC rear cab panel pretty much follows the profile of the Trailfinder II shell, there is a gap all the way around which I filled with Isopon P38 before sanding... Like most of my builds I'm not going to be too precious about getting a fine/smooth finish on the panels, as this vehicle is certainly going to be as weathered with the best of them - but I do want to try and hide an evidence of the joins of course.

i-2x2gntV-XL.jpg

More soon - I've ordered a 'real metal' rusting paint-effect kit to see how that works in comparison to my usual red-oxide primer and salt* combination.

*for info. I was reading on line that some people have success by using ground cinnamon on wet paint for a textured rust effect - that might be worth a go too.

Jx

 

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