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Timr100

Motor problem

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Hi hope someone could shed some light on a problem, I put this or orion core modified (please see pics) I put it in my new  lancia on TT02 chassis the problem is it runs for around 2 minutes then cuts out and the speed controller and battery and motor get very hot ounce it has cooled it fine again for a couple of minutes. I am using a 7. 2 volt 2100 mah battery and a tamiya speed controller, advice would be much appreciated 

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Most likely you're going to need a higher current ESC and possibly battery as you're likely triggering either thermal or current cut off. 

What esc is it and what turn is the new mod motor?

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Also have a look at your gearing. The wrong gear ratio can also cause a motor to run very hot.

But as said above it's very likely that your motor is too fast for your Tamiya ESC. Most Tamiya ESC's are really only meant for stock(ish) motors.

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While I would love to tell you there's a simple fix for your issue, I can't. Fact is that your entire electrical system is overloaded.

When your ESC goes into thermal shut-down and everything gets too hot as well, within two minutes, the answer is simple. The electronics package is mismatched.

Your ESC is overloading that little 2100 mah battery by drawing more current than it was designed for, that's why it gets hot that fast.

Your motor is cooking your ESC because it draws more current than your ESC was built to handle.

Your motor is getting hot because it's overloaded by the gear ratio in the car.

There might be more than one solution to your problem, but we need to know a few things.

How many turns is that motor?

What pinion and spur gear are you running?

You might be able to get away with changing your gears, but more than likely, you won't. Considering how fast everything heats up, I can't see other issues than everything in the chain is overloaded by that new motor.

At the very minimum, you need to get a battery capable of delivering more current. Do you need Lipo? Probably not, but a nice 5000 mah nimh pabk is a good place to start.

Then you can try and install a bigger spur and a smaller pinion along with the Yeah Racing motor mount that enables you to adjust your motor in a way so that you can run other pinions sizes than the ones specced by Tamiya. There's still a good chance that even doing this, that if that motor is a low turn motor, your Tamiya ESC will need replacing anyway. There are some cheap alternatives that work well and that can go well below the stock 27-21 turns the Tamiya esc is limited to. The Hobbywing Quicrun WP 1060 ESC is a very popular choice that will support fairly low turn motors in onroad applications.

Provide us with the info requested and let's see what we can come up with.

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Well said, DK308.  

To summarize what TC members already said: 

1)  Ditch the 8 turn motor (I don't know it is an 8 turn... I'm just blaming it on an imaginary low-turn motor).  

2)  Get yourself a Quicrun 1060 ESC and a motor that's above 12t.  (if yours is 13t + , then keep it, Quicrun 1060 can handle it). 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Juggular said:

Well said, DK308.  

To summarize what TC members already said: 

1)  Ditch the 8 turn motor (I don't know it is an 8 turn... I'm just blaming it on an imaginary low-turn motor).  

2)  Get yourself a Quicrun 1060 ESC and a motor that's above 12t.  (if yours is 13t + , then keep it, Quicrun 1060 can handle it). 

 

 

3. Get a 3S LiPo to go with the Quicrun, then the car will be properly quick. :)

 

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Yep, it seems like you've fallen into the same trap we all have at some point: throwing too much motor at a car not set up to handle it.

For me it was 1988, trying to make my poor Blackfoot keep up with the neighborhood rich kid's brand new Ultima. Enter one Twister 15 turn double, wired through bullet plugs to the stock mechanical speed control. After one run (all of 3 minutes), the diff gears were shredded and the wiring was too hot to touch. So hot, in fact, that the battery connector had melted together; I had to pull it apart with pliers while the nylon strung out like melted cheese.

It's just never that easy, I'm afraid...

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11 hours ago, markbt73 said:

Yep, it seems like you've fallen into the same trap we all have at some point: throwing too much motor at a car not set up to handle it.

For me it was 1988, trying to make my poor Blackfoot keep up with the neighborhood rich kid's brand new Ultima. Enter one Twister 15 turn double, wired through bullet plugs to the stock mechanical speed control. After one run (all of 3 minutes), the diff gears were shredded and the wiring was too hot to touch. So hot, in fact, that the battery connector had melted together; I had to pull it apart with pliers while the nylon strung out like melted cheese.

It's just never that easy, I'm afraid...

For me it was trying to get a Madbull to do over 50mph on an MSC (This was before EScs were cheap and brushless had come along). I had a 14 double motor in it, a 9.6V battery with another 3 cells wired in series strapped to the front bumper. I'd fitted oil shocks and replaced the standard 3 pin resistor with 2 RS resistors built into heatsinks, and had replace the wiring with 24V aircraft wire to handle the current. It was fine on the first speed, but as soon as it got to 2nd, 1 back tire would lose traction, spin through the diff and balloon and flip the car over. I then locked the diff with hot glue and tried again. It would then hit full throttle, but the first time I tried it there was so much torque it ripped the rear CVA's apart (Pulled the shock body out of the caps). After gluing them together I did manage to get 53mph, but after a few runs I overshot the end of the tarmac, crashed, and split the bodyshell clean in half.

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Right thank you guys I have decided to go brushless I have read you can run them on nimh battery what would you advise I am going to save up to get lipo in the future. I can change the pinion gear to suit, any advice on what motor to get, I have tamiya brushless speed control or would you advise changing that too many thanks Tim p s. Its on a TT02 chassis 

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You can use the milder Tamiya or Carson brushless motors on the Tamiya ESC. They are made to suit the Tamiya 02S ESC.

You can also choose a mild motor from another brand. Hobbyking has Trackstar motors that are cheap and work well. A 13.5t or 17.5t will work well in your TT02. Any other brand of sensored 13.5 or 17.5 will also do.

It works on NIMH batteries, but don't expect mega performance. The Tamiya ESC's don't have the same punch or advance timing options as other make ESC's. The slightly lower voltage and little drop in voltage over time from a NIMH means you'll lose a little performance compared to a good LiPo battery.

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25 minutes ago, Timr100 said:

Right thank you guys I have decided to go brushless I have read you can run them on nimh battery what would you advise I am going to save up to get lipo in the future. I can change the pinion gear to suit, any advice on what motor to get, I have tamiya brushless speed control or would you advise changing that too many thanks Tim p s. Its on a TT02 chassis 

13.5T is a good match for the TT02 and TBLE-02S. Speed Passion or Trackstar are good value for money for a basher, they won't keep up with the race motors but at a third of the price they are great value for money. NiMH is fine, lipo does make a difference but its all just power at the end of the day, the chemistry of the battery doesn't really matter.  NiMH will be a problem if you buy a programmable ESC and turn up the timing and boost, then thr NiMH can't deliver the required energy and it will be much slower than a good lipo

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I have one question regarding going brushless and upgrading the motor and so forth. Have you installed a ball bearing set? That is a must for what you are doing.

Going brushless is not a bad idea. Just remember that if you don't do it right, you will end up in the same places as you are now.

One of the things to consider with brushless is the fact that they have a lot more torque than most brushed motors. Generally speaking that's great, but for the TT02, it will mean that you will have to replace some things down the line as they will wear out and break. These items are mainly the plastic diff gears and the plastic drive shaft. Tamiya, Yeah Racing and GPM makes an alloy shaft that will work, and GPM makes a set of metal diff gears that are a direct drop in once your plastic gears let go. Don't worry about that stuff now, just be aware that it will be a small expense down the line.

Motors in the 10-13t range is a great choice. I like this as a good all around motor. Works well and can handle 3S if you want to give that a try someday.

https://www.absima.shop/RC-ACCESSORIES/RC-Electronic/Brushless-Motor-ESC/Brushless-Motor-Thrust-BL-ECO-3421KV-1-10.htm?shop=absima_en&SessionId=&a=article&ProdNr=2130005&t=19114&c=19130&p=19130

As for the ESC. Forget the Tamiya ESC. Does it work? Yes, but it's a poor choice if you want to go with lipo as it does not have a low voltage cutoff as most aftermarket ESC's do. One of the most popular cheap ESC's that will have this feature, is the hobbywing Quicrun 10BL60 and Quicrun 10BL120 ESC's. They have become the go-to ESC for many of us, simply because they run extremely well and are awesome value for money.

Lastly, as I mentioned in my previous post, consider the Yeah Racing motor mount, especially if you go brushless. That Tamiya plastic mount flexes a lot, and I don't even think the mesh it provides is very good. I'd say that the motor mount is a must when going brushless.

Let us know how it turns out.

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16 hours ago, MadInventor said:

3. Get a 3S LiPo to go with the Quicrun, then the car will be properly quick. :)

 

While 3S is great and fun, it will also mean a few upgrades to the TT02. Metal diff gears, alloy driveshaft and cups, and alloy motor mount. :)

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I don't have an onroad TT02, just the TT02B but in my experience you don't really need to upgrade anything other than bearings. I have run 13.5T brushless with boost and turbo on one for a while and the ring gear on the rear diff started clicking. Part of the problem will have been jumping as when you land it shock loads the diff. The standard diffs are so cheap as well, you can get a lot of sets for the price of DF02 diffs.  The TRF419 gear diffs are plastic, bothing wrong with pkastic internals in them, its just the ring ger. Stock motor mount, drive shaft, dogbones etc etc all held up fine. I also run the TBLE-02S as its what they come with (and I buy them when they don't) as they are so versatile.  A low voltage alarm is about $2 so just run one of those if you're worried, much cheaper than a new ESC.

Don't go crazy on upgrades unless thats your thing. Buy the TB05 or TA07 before throwing money at the TT02 as they will always be better cars.

Actually, buy a TB05 and do a build thread, haven't seen one in the flesh...

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Well, some might have better luck with their diffs, but mine lasted about three packs before starting to grind, and were absolutely shot by the fifth. This is a known issue with the TT02 and TT02B. I never ran my TT02B hard or jumped it. I ran it on a soccer field, so flat grass without lots of jumps and bumps. After three packs is switched the front and rear diff to get a bit more runtime, and after two more packs, there was nothing left. I personally don't like the idea of the DF02 diff replacement. GPM makes a set of gears that will be a direct drop in without modifications. I will agree that the G parts bags with the diff is a lot cheaper than a set of metal gears and that you can purchase about four plastic sets for what a single set of GPM metal gears cost. For me, this is just not a good options as it does not fix the problem, but rather just treats the symptoms. If I take my rig with me and want to run it multiple times during a day, it's a bummer if that day is cut short, and it's annoying that I have to be overly cautious when I drive the car. Besides the fact that I would probably be way behind financially now if I had replaced the plastic gears with new stock plastic gears, the metal gears have also made the whole experience a lot more fun as I don't have to worry about them breaking suddenly.

Some apparently make them live a bit longer than others, but reading online and from my own experiences, once you get into brushless power on the TT02 and TT02B cars, you're on borrowed time with the diff ring and pinion gears. I will like to add that I have not replaced the internal diff gears. They are all still the stock plastic diff gears.

Keep an eye on your gears and when time comes, choose the remedy that suits you. There are more than one way to skin a cat, and what makes the most sense and works for some, might not work for others. I don't like worrying about the gears and over time, even the plastic gears become expensive.

Low voltage alarms are indeed cheap. But unlike the cutoff in the aftermarket ESC that actively protects the ESC, the alarm is dependent on you hearing it. Sometimes you can, and sometimes you can't. Again, different strokes for different folks.

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