What was racing like in olden days?

[fyra89 0]

Was wondering whether any TC members with longstanding involvement in r/c racing could enlighten me on its history.

When did the 27-turn stock motor succeed the RS-540 as the stock motor?

Were the mechanical speed controllers included in Tamiya and other kits ever commonly used on racing circuits?

When were 2WD and 4WD separated into different classes?

[Dephcon5 2]

I never ran a 540 motor in racing. Locally it was not legal. I always ran a Reedy stock motor for stock class. I also never raced with a tamiya, when I started racing I ran an Associated rc12e then graduated to an associated rc12i. Both had mechanical speed controlls that came with the kit. I ran my first electronic speed control which was a novak back is 1987. then swithed to Tekin in 1990. When off road tracks started to pop up the scorcher and rough rider were king (and the only off road kit ever made to that point) and many ran the stock mechanical speed control. In those early days I do remember a few who ran the stock 540 kit motor but they were classed by themselves as super stock. If the day ever comes that I remember more I will let you know.

g

[smallman28 0]

Well I can remember racing my Rough Rider when I was 13!

2WD was the norm and mostly Tamiya stuff with the odd Kyosho Scorpion that nearly always used to win as they were about half the weight of the majority of the Tamiy cars.

I also remember one of the first successful 4WD cars being the Hirobo,dont remember the name of the model though,then came the likes of the RC10 and the PB Mustangs and Schumacher Cats.

I dont recall at what point 2wd and 4wd got seperated into their own classes though

[miramar 4]

quote:Originally posted by smallman28

I also remember one of the first successful 4WD cars being the Hirobo,dont remember the name of the model though...

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Rockin' City. I believe the chassis itself was dubbed 44B?

quote:Originally posted by smallman28

I dont recall at what point 2wd and 4wd got seperated into their own classes though

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As far as I remember, not the same year across the globe. Late `80's in most countries, if I recall correctly. It's a loooong time ago. []

[Backlash 481]

I started racing at club level back in 84 with a Frog. I dont remember that there was a different class for the RS-540 and the "Stock" motors, most of which were based on the Yokohmo 05R. I only remember that at some point, when my driving got better, I got an 05R, but I still raced with the same people. Maybe it was just the class I run in that was called under16's.

Speed back then was very much governed by how good your batteries were, and Tamiya 1200 were not that good by todays standards. Ask people to run stock for 6mins and with 1200 packs and listen to them complain.LOL.

In about 85' I got a 4wd Hirobo Zerda for xmas, and again raced that with the stock motor, and with the 2WD cars in this under 16's class.

The whole time I raced the Frog I used a MSC, but when I started racing the Zerda, I bought a Futaba ESC ( main box blue ally, and had a separate black controll box).

Before the Zerda's there was a Hirobo series dubbed the 44B, and the 3 models were the Rock'n City, Vega, and Hilux.

Cheers

[Voltar 1]

We raced Associated RC100 & RC 250s way back when. First offroad races were mostly Tamiya thanks in part to the afterschool Tamiya TV commercials and the low price. We had 2 classes....cars & trucks. Very simple and tons of fun. A few years later we just had to start a 4wd class. up until then, the truck class was Monster Beetles, Blackfoots & converted Losi & Associated cars. The conversions along with the Hilux & King Cabs started to clean up so they were then in their own class. Then all classes doubled when 7 cells or modified motors started to rule. Then around 1990 the Traxxas nitro truck was released and started 1/10 gas truck racing . up until then, gas cars were 1/8 or 1/10 buggy.

Most fun overall was trying to finish a 4 minute race, right side up with a Blackfoot. Geeeeeze.....I'm old! Jim

[Mervyn 1]

Jim, those were great roads.Nothing like the site of a bunch of rc 100's tearing up the track.Its light years from the way things are now. I was at a race once with my super champ and the guy from the hobby store showed up with a brand new just released rc 10. That for me and most of the locals ended the way we raced.That car lapped the field and the following week was on the cover of one of the r/c magazines. Really opened up electric buggy racing around here.

[Shodog 1835]

Racing back then was way more relaxed. People were friendly and helped each other out. None of the cr@p you have to deal with today at the tracks. My first RC car was a Frog but by the time I started to race in 1985, I had a FAV converted to a Wild One that worked fairly well. Then I bought Fox and was pretty successful. Like Merv said, once the RC-10 came out, it was all over. That buggy was just heads above the rest. I begged and pleaded with my parents and I saved money from the shop I worked at and aluminum cans from all the neighbors and a little help from the parents I bought an RC-10. That buggy was the best and I think could still be driven competitively today.

Many of the cars of that day sucked which gave rise to a whole slew of boutique aftermarket parts makers like RCH, CRP, MIP, Thorp, Race Prep and a bunch of others.

Having bearings in your car was a huge thing as they were $60-$80 for a set. There were some crazy mod motors out there but your run time suffered because the only batteries out there were 1200mah Sanyos. Many of these racing parts were unobtainable for me. That the main reason I really go nuts for the aftermarket parts now.

[stulec52 50]

quote:Originally posted by Shodog

Many of these racing parts were unobtainable for me. That the main reason I really go nuts for the aftermarket parts now.

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Ah, good there is some reason, not just your weird obsesiveness then.

As for the topic, first car I ever actually raced was a Holiday buggy, 540 and sanyo 1200's and I thought I was the bees knees.

been through most classes and formulas, since 1983, and still race and in fact 2004/05 was my most successful year, earning 4 titles and generally having loads of fun.

I disagree slightly with ShoDog though, there are still loads of helpful people racing.

[terry.sc 16]

I started racing in 1980 with an AYK RX2000, then Schumacher XLS and C-car 1/12th cars. Back then buggies weren't seen as serious racing cars.

First to answer fyra89s questions:

Stock motors then were usually based on the Igorashi 05 motor, the only Mabuchi 540s seen were in the buggy kits. The buggy rules of a 27 turn stock motor was and still is based on the standard Mabuchi 540 and the 540 is still classed as a stock class motor. The national racing bodies never had a class based solely on the 540. until the 1982 1/12th World Champs all stock and modified motors were based on the 05/540 type motor, the new Yokomo open endbell motor was introduced as a handout motor and it was derided for its lack of speed. A year later the motor companies had tweaked the Yokomo to get some performance out of them and they started to replace the 540 based motors in everyone's pit box.

At first everyone had to use a mechanical speed controller, they were usually based on slot car style wiper arm types bolted on the servo, Bolink and Parma were the biggest suppliers of these. These gave a relatively smooth variable speed rather than the Tamiya 2 or 3 step speed controls. The first commercially available ESCs came out around 1980 in the uK made by Demon. They were a bit of a brick and could handle all of 25 amps, which was more than enough in those days as we used 1200mah nicads.

Here's one of my old Demon ESCs in my Scorpion. Notice the size relative to the motor.

Buggy racers tended to use the speed controls included in the kits to begin with, although the Parma variable resistor was much more popular than the wiper board type in the SRBs. The kit MSCs worked fine at first but racers quickly replaced them with ESCs for racing even back then.

2wd and 4wd was a single class for a long time. The first racing buggies were the SRBs, usually extensively modified as in standard form they could not last a race without falling apart. They also had to be modified to have any sort of handling. These were superseded when Kyosho brought out the Scorpion, half the weight of an SRB and proper suspension. unfortunately the 2 gear ratios provided by Kyosho meant the car was fast but would not last the race or slow and would run forever. Back then there was no manufacturer hop up parts like today, the racers filed the motor mounting holes into slots themselves. No one these days would even think of modifying the parts, everyone would rather buy the expensive upgrade mount.

The Kyosho Progress was their 4wd competition car, but with limited power from the motor and batteries the 2wds were faster. The first competitive 4wd was the Hirobo 44B with its unique belt drive transmission, everyone else used a chain drive for their 4wd transmission which limited the performance. 2wd was the way to go to be competitive.

The RC10 came out and was the first buggy that did not need extensive modifications for racing, although the works drivers in the uK took to machining huge holes in the chassis to save weight. The price put most people off though, £140 in the uK 20 years ago with the ballraces for it another £40. The RC10 was the car to have though, it started winning everywhere.

The first off road World Champs in 1985 was divided into standard class and modified class, the standard class based on standard unmodified cars and the modified class being unlimited. The RC10 won the standard class but a Yokomo Dogfighter won the modified class. There still wasn't separate 2wd and 4wd classes.

The first really competitive 4wd out of the box was the Kyosho Optima. Tamiyas Hotshot was supposed to be a competition car but everyone threw most of the car away and just kept the gearboxes and suspension arms, home made chassis were built and RC10 shocks fitted to them. Heres an example Hotshot which was in the Euro Champs in 86, all the chassis is home made.

In 86 the Optima started winning everywhere, especially on low grip surfaces. As the motors were getting more powerful and nicads were getting better the extra drive of the 4wd gave the Optima an advantage over the RC10. All the new competition buggies that came out in 86 were all 4wd, making 2wd cars obsolete so the governing bodies separated the 2 classes. The next World Champs in 1987 was separated into 2wd and 4wd and were won by a Kyosho ultima and a Schumacher Cat.

I didn't start racing a buggy until I moved to an area where there were no 1/12th racing clubs. Started with a Scorpion but moved on to a Frog - lighter and a more efficient gearbox. As everyone did back then replaced a lot of parts with upgrades just to make it reliable. Actually qualified the Frog on pole in the C final of the local round of the off road nationals and it proved more than capable of beating RC10s indoors.

Racing back then certainly wasn't taken seriously like it is these days, even national meetings were friendly and fun. until the RC10 came out no kit was capable of racing competitively and needed modifying. RC10 shocks were fitted to most cars, usually with home made fibreglass shock mounts rather than anything bought. That was part of the fun of racing then, actually building parts to improve the car and developing your car yourself rather than just buying the kit and running it.

[beetlebanger 4]

erverything was in black and white !![]

[tanker(2) 0]

I lived in Hong Kong back in the 80s and late 70s. I remember begging my parents to allow me to use my own savings to buy a Cheetah and I got a firm NO!! Then a year later Tamiya released the Rough Rider and I tried my negotiation skills again. This time I got a reluctant yes.

Together with my buddy we got two RR + Acoms radios. I think I was lucky that I did not get the cheetah, which was no comparision to RR in terms of drivability. After building the RR, my buddy and I realised that we needed something called NI-Cd batteries.... which was another substantial $$$...

Driving the car was fun, we used to run it after we got some heavy sub-tropical rain. Racing was essentially a matter of the neighbourhood kids getting together at a quiet unused road and tried to out-do each other in driving. And our 'race' usually last less than 10 minutes because of the limitation of our 1200mah tamiya 'hunchback' batteries. I met a lot of new friends back then. When we wanna run longer, one of us have to carry a large lead-acid cell, which nobody wanna volunteer because that thin was extrememly heavy for 13 years old. Breaking parts was a norm.

Competitive cars back then were heavily modified SRBs. Most common trick was removing the tub and get a better motor and a parma type speed control. Surprisingly, the super champ was not that impressive when compared with those heavily modified RR or SC. I think I personally benefited a lot by trying to brainstorm and modify my own RR, especially with a limited (or non-exist) budget.

Optima spoiled the fun!! It was just too good. Yokomo 834b was **** in the stock form, the rear suspension did not work and the chassis was too soft. The idea of the Mugen bulldog sounds good but the 3 differentials were either too tight or too loose, you choose one. And the 4 wheel steering concept did not work, too much oversteering. Racing by then was more popular and more serious, but less fun. until one day I found that there were too many foul mouth individuals around at races and people were spending too much $$ into 'matched' batteries, I decided to walk away.

But glad that I am into collecting them again. My current RR and YZ834b are heavily modified. Still trying to do some magic to make a mugen bulldog drivable....

[terry.sc 16]

Ah yes, the Yokomo 834b, with its rear suspension using tie wraps as a down stop to prevent the drive shafts falling out and another pair of tie wraps used to stop the shock mount collapsing, that's how it was designed. They knew how to build them in those days.

[Wandy 1527]

I remember getting my Hotshot in late 1985 after reading the likes of 'Radio Race Car' and looking at the race meeting results. There were always plenty of Hotshots on the winning podium. unfortunately when I started looking to join my local club I noticed that the poor old 'Shot was starting to feature less and less competively and noticed that some buggy called an RC10 was featuring prominently, along with Yokomos, Schumachers and something called a Kyosho Optima. This was all news to me because as far as I was aware up till then Tamiya ruled the R/C world! At my local club my Hotshot did quite well but was being eclipsed particularly by the chain driven Optimas. However I was determined not to 'jump ship' and being a Tamiya 'loyalist', I decided to 'upgrade' to a BigWig. Bad move that! The car was a beast in a straight line but the sheer weight of it left me regularly in last place, particularly at outdoor events. Bah.

In the end I gave up and did indeed jump ship and signed up to the old enemy, Kyosho, when the Turbo Optima Mid came out. I was the first person at my club to get one and quickly went from last place in the races to first. Yey!

I have to say for all round ability and quality of build I think the Mid was THE greatest buggy of the 80's, and yes that includes the RC10.

[vtecboost 17]

I remember racing my frog at the local track, now the local track was owned by the hobby shop that I worked at. My frog was fast I was running a yokomo mod motor that would last about 2mins tops, I was also running an esc that was from a company called hot trick. The cool thing

about that esc, it was un-limited in that amount of batteries that you could run through it. I will never forget the summer that the RC10 hit my track, I will also never forget the way that car ran! It was like a true race car, I remember looking at the car running and observing the suspension was that only thing that was moving up and down. The chassis would stay horizontal and the suspension was doing what it was supposed to. I will also never forget that RC10 lapping the entire field that day! Talk about winning on Sunday and selling on Monday, I told my boss at the end of the day as we where cleaning up the track to order me a RC10 from our distributer so I could have it by Wednesday. I had to sell my un-used Hotshot and two Road wizards to be able to buy the RC10. I reworked the frog back to stock and fitted the RC10 with that yokomo and the esc, I ran both cars. Now that true star of the show hands down was the RC10!

[SonicCJ5 0]

Racing R/C back in the day was good times. I started with a Frog and a 6 cell hump pack form Tamiya that was a fast car when I started racing. We would race against anything that was R/C. There were not any classes so you would see Wild Willys, Sand Scorchers, Ranger, Grasshoppers Frogs racing each other in various forms of mods and stock. When they came out with the 540 endurance and sprint motors you would race them agains cars that had 540's and 380's anything went at the local track where I raced.When the Hotshot came out I got one for X-mass, until there was enough 4wds we raced against the 2wd. When I retsore or drive my old cars it reminds me of a much simpler time when I got to hang out with my Dad at the track and race against him. That is what racing was like for my in the olden days.

[vintagejack 0]

Thanks to everyone, reading through these posts has been a real treat, they have really brought back the memories!!

I went to my first RC club in Oxford when the Optima, chain drive had been about a few months and was just starting to dominate... I arrived with my Wild One ( Technigold Motor, mechanical spedd control, 1200 sanyos)... I had been through loads of cars before this but the car really flew with the Technigold and the right ration, really had to wind her up though, not much accelleration...

I remember arriving and seeing the rear drive optima, it looked so exotic, some german guy was running it. I was just a kid, had to scrimp for my lowly tamiya, he must have spent about 5 -6 times more than me in terms of budget...

Eventually when I got older,I bought an optima Mid Custom, followed by a Schumacher CAT XLS, I then decided it was pointless to race 4wd as to be competitive you had to spend a fortune on the best matched batteries, modified motors.... so I got an RC10... but had awful problems with it till the stealth gearbox came out!! That spur gear/Differential design has to be one of the biggest loads of **** I have come across... because of the play caused by the diff being housed in the spur gear it was almost impossible to correctly mesh the pinion and get smooth running..

The Cat was probably the car I liked most, it should not have been good, in terms of design the Optima bid semmed a lot better, but a well set up CAT was just a joy to drive on Brititish tracks and also to spectate, it just had a noise and poise all of its own...

Speakeing about aftermarket parts, i also remmeber some real obscenities made by people with more money than sense... in particular a FOX that had ,I think, only the bottm suspension arms that were original, everything else, chassis, gearbox cases, dampers, everything was aftermarket, he has spent a fortune. well, it was an absolute missile but handled like a complete pig... a lot off this was set up related, but also I think a lot of the aftermarket stuff was designed to be used in conjunction with the original car, so that when it was all combined toghether you got a mish mash that was impossible to use...

Jack

[mrlexan 0]

If I could get my brother off of his lazy butt to burn our old VHS tapes onto DVDs, I could post some of those "back in the day" races. I think most of them were either (first) with my Hornet and (second) with my RC10. My grandfather, whom got us into cars, was big in bringing his monstrous Video recorder to the races and taping us.

I will give my bro a couple of weeks, then ask him to mail me the VHS tapes and get them burned myself.

My only request if I do post the movies, no remarks about my attire. It had to be 20 some years ago...... NO SA COMMENTS DARREN!!!!!! LOL! []

[RETRO R/C 59]

LOL Jay - I have pics somewhere with my parents of me at a major meeting in 1977! LOL : Nice tupperware bowl haircut and knee length socks and sandles............yeah they were all adults and they laughed at the chubby kid in freaky clothes.............

Till I beat them!! LOLOL

Clothes still dont make you drive faster !!

Cheers

Darryn

[Scorpn 18]

Our local club used an old BMX track, and my Falcon with Tamiya 1200, MSC and Technipower went REALLY well, other cars were faster but the Falcon (with lowered and softened rear suspension - Yay skid plates!!! LOL) just out cornered them - It was a good overall compromise till RC-10 and ultima showed up and ruined my fun!!

[SonicCJ5 0]

quote:Originally posted by Scorpn

Our local club used an old BMX track, and my Falcon with Tamiya 1200, MSC and Technipower went REALLY well, other cars were faster but the Falcon (with lowered and softened rear suspension - Yay skid plates!!! LOL) just out cornered them - It was a good overall compromise till RC-10 and ultima showed up and ruined my fun!!

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Where are you located I used to race at an old BMX track in Mass.

[Scorpn 18]

In New Zealand, long way from Mass but BMX tracks were great fun, ready made jumps and quite long!

In case anyone was wondering why I lowered the rear, Falcon was lowered by screws beside rear suspension pivot - Wouldn't do that now but stopped the dogbones escaping!!

Glenn

[Sonic 0]

Really enjoyed reading this thread makes me wish i had raced back in the day.

Lee.

[SonicCJ5 0]

That is why I am trying to get all the cars I raced. Reminds me of the good times. I went to a LHS that has an indoor track for on an off road. It was fun to watch and really got me wanting to race again but to race and be competitive today you need to spend $$$$$. Back then if you bought a fast motor and a good set of tires(New Frog Spike tires) You would be very competitive. Today you need a machine to turn your tires and a dyno to tune your motor. Give me a couple Frogs a small track in the woods a endurance 540 and lets go!

[Mad Zero 316]

When I started racing there was no real electric racing - battery technology was still in it's infancy, and rechargable ones were out of the question due to their cost! It was 1/8 ic (now called Nitro) if you wanted to race and 'toy' type electric cars such as the Elek Peanuts dune buggy for playing (bashing) around with. Proportional radio was much the same price as it is now (but £40 was a lot of money back then!) and most of my servos were built from kits as it was cheaper! Ooh I can almost smell the old Lilford Park pit area now!

My first racing car was a Mardave Mk4 Circuit bought used for me by Dad (but I recently managed to aquire a NIB one!) - my dream car at the time was the PB9 International which, 27 years later, I now own! Both these cars are 1/8ic.

As for Tamiya - well they were viewed much as they are now (well, until about a year ago anyway) - nicely finished quality (but expensive) toys for the hobbyist and/or collector, racers tended to go for the American stuff! ...and thanks for the trip down memory lane!