At what point do you retire a vintage runner?

[Saito2]

My vintage original Blackfoot runner is at a crossroads. It seems to have reached the point where I can no longer complete a single run without breaking something. There are a ton of small additions I've made to the truck of the years to work out all the bugs inherent to the ORV monster design. All the common failures from diff separation to spreading trailing arms to the sloppy front end are fixed. The problem now is the plastics are just crumbling. One day, an upright shattered without cause or impact. The next day the motor just kinda fell out because the adapter mount disintegrated. The the radius rod mount screw pulled out of the front support. I have spares stashed away but they soon perish in use as well. 

I have a couple options. 1. Buy a re-release. If all these things are steadily going wrong, a fresh kit might just be in order. Everything is handled in one swoop and should be good for the next 25 years or so.

2. Replace all the black plastic parts with re-release parts. Its about half the cost of the kit which saves money, but I might miss something that could go bad (although, I've never broken a space frame chassis)

I don't care about originality. Its a runner and I just want fresh plastics. Opinions? 

[MadInventor]

As you said yourself, you're fighting against inherent design flaws in the model, plus it's falling apart at the seams. Even if you get a re-re blackfoot there's still going to be those design flaws to get around. The gearbox wasn't exactly strong in the frog, and then Tamiya put monster wheels on it . Sounds like it's time to put it on the shelf and buy something without so many problems. You could get a 6wd Konghead for the same price as a re-re blackfoot. Why have a 2wd monster truck when you can have 6wd and a sturdy gearbox into the bargain ? 

[markbt73]

Do you already have a shelfer Blackfoot? If not, then I say retire this one with full honors, in its current state,  and display it as-is. Maybe even make up a little plaque for it or something. Then get a re-re to run, and in 30 years it'll be ready for the same treatment.

And yes, there are other "better" monster trucks out there, but there is just something about the old ORVs that no other design can quite match. It's a unique driving experience that's worth putting up with the "flaws" for.

[Saito2]

1 hour ago, MadInventor said:

As you said yourself, you're fighting against inherent design flaws in the model, plus it's falling apart at the seams. Even if you get a re-re blackfoot there's still going to be those design flaws to get around

The design flaws I have conquered. For all the criticisms the ORV monsters tend to get, they are cheaply fixed with a little handywork and some knowledge. I appreciate the practicality of buying a newer, less flawed platform but in the end, newer Tamiya is soul-less to me.

6 minutes ago, markbt73 said:

Then get a re-re to run, and in 30 years it'll be ready for the same treatment.

My wife is really going to roll her eyes if I get another kit, but I think you have the right idea.

7 minutes ago, markbt73 said:

And yes, there are other "better" monster trucks out there, but there is just something about the old ORVs that no other design can quite match. It's a unique driving experience that's worth putting up with the "flaws" for.

You hit the nail on the head Mark. I have a Stampede and its bulletproof but its no ORV. There's just a bit of magic in an old Monster Beetle or Blackfoot. They handle better than a Lunch Box, but have enough "character" to keep them interesting. I remember when they were THE monster truck to have before the conversion trucks took over. 

[Hibernaculum]

5 hours ago, Saito2 said:

My vintage original Blackfoot runner is at a crossroads.

...

I have a couple options. 1. Buy a re-release. If all these things are steadily going wrong, a fresh kit might just be in order. Everything is handled in one swoop and should be good for the next 25 years or so.

2. Replace all the black plastic parts with re-release parts. Its about half the cost of the kit which saves money, but I might miss something that could go bad (although, I've never broken a space frame chassis)

I don't care about originality.

I think you've answered your own question

• It won't be vintage/original anymore - but if that doesn't matter - replace the broken parts with remake parts.

I would only add that a fresh build from vintage parts is no different today, to a fresh build from those same parts in 1986. I see zero deterioration in vintage parts that have been kept out of UV light over the years. So there is nothing preventing running (gently), and maintaining cars in a completely vintage state, if so desired.

However, if you want to run "vigorously" with loads of jumps and tumbles - either pad the car out with remake parts as you please (remembering that this makes it no longer vintage/original). Or buy and build an entire fresh remake kit, and run that.

One more question  - will your Blackfoot mean more to you in the long run, if you stop modding it today and keep it preserved in the setup you currently have? Is there sentimental value in that?

Sometimes when we have an original car from our youth, then we ENTIRELY retrofit new parts into it, changing it completely from what it was, it becomes no longer the same car we originally had - and loses sentimental value. Sometimes there is value in keeping a certain car exactly as you had it (whatever that was) - warts and all, and just shelving it. This is a rare behaviour - but it does happen for some. However, it may not be the case for this Blackfoot. I just thought I would mention it.

[RS2RSR]

Buy a Top Force and a TA02 chassis. Then you have a 4wd chassis with the right wheelbase and put a Blackfoot body on it : )

[LeftyAl]

I'd go with a re-re kit. Then you can choose to either shelf the vintage or use the kit for parts to refresh your vintage and have some spares. Another body and new wheels/tires would let you have a display set and a runner set.

I went a different way when shelfing my King Blackfoot. I though a HSP truck would be a good replacement.... Wrong!!!! it broke way more stuff with less run time.

Tossed the HSP and went back to the KBF until I found out abut the HPI Savage XS. The KBF has been hanging on the wall since, but only needs a motor/ESC and receiver and it is ready for action.

[taffer]

I'd do both, keep the old one going but gentle runs and get the rere and continue bashing with it!

Edited May 30, 2019 by taffer
Spellcheck

[ThunderDragonCy]

Depends weather you have a shelf display. I don't and i am not at all fussed about having static models of things you should (in my opinion, yours my differ) be having fun running. This is clearly a runner truck. I would get the rere plastics and maybe consider carrying on along your upgrade path. Instead ofva whole new kit, how about rere plastics and a MIP diff? 

I humbly disagree with the viewpoint above about old cars. My Thunder Dragon has been in my possession for nearly 30 years. It probably only has three original parts left, but the upgrades and modifications (suspension, wheels, electrics and steering) make it a joy to run and the replacements of original parts (shell, tub, drivetrain) mean a good life spent having fun being used. It's still MY Thunder Dragon and i love it. I get the sentiment thing up to a point: Despite it being battered i can't bring myself to bin the original shell - but if your truck is a runner, i salute you for it. Keep it running! 

[Jonathon Gillham]

I would buy a rere kit rather than spare parts and then make a call on whether to run the rere or your original. My reasoning is you won't be able to buy all the spare parts first time around and will inevitably break more stuff, leading to more purchases which will probably amount to the kit price anyway. 

The Monster Beetle is one of the most fun cars we have to run and I wouldn't want to 'upgrade' to a modern car for the sort of running where the Monster Beetle is fun. Its the same as how the Boomerang or Fox is more fun than a Lazer ZX6 or Ultima RB6.6, just more fun. Can't quantify it. I think the Monster Beetle would even do ok on a track - I reckon it would probably get similar lap times to a TT02B

[Saito2]

I'm leaning toward purchasing a a re-release kit. As much as I loathe feeding the MAP machine while consuming more goods rather than fixing existing product I already own, I'm reaching a point of diminishing returns at this time. I can't get through a 15 minute run without plastic failure and I don't drive like a madman.

[racer1]

Since the turck isn't all original, I would simply replace the parts that are breaking with the re-release pieces and keep running it. 

Like others have said, the ORV chassis wasn't the best even when new but it has lasted you this long.  Now that the re-release is out there, parts are dirt cheap. 

 

[ruebiracer]

I have a re-release Monster Beetle kit since 2015, but I just can´t get around to building it, just because my restored original just keeps running so well. Even dared to run it last weekend on the Tamiya Euro raceway in Sonneberg, where I was able to have a running sunday. It still got original plastics, except the motor mounting plate, which I replaced with a custom made one from aluminum and the connecting brace for the body mounts. For the front bumper plate you need a fix, too. The metal arms screw broke out even when still new on my Brat back in the days. I made a FRP supporting plate to take the forces. Otherwise just replace some broken parts with re-re plastics and you are running again. The front knuckles I did not brake yet, although still the old ones. You need a proper steering setup, to eliminate bump steer, and a good servo saver. Then this one is taking the bad loads for the knuckles during hitting obstacles. Be Aware that bump steer brings loads into the knuckles during jumps etc. that appear nearly symmetric and cannot be compensated by the servo saver. The wheels want to tear apart the steering links (and they do over time). And some weaker springs all around. You will not believe, how absorbing a MB can be with a proper setup. It´s my favorite Vintage Monster truck from Tamiya.

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=117377&id=34024

You can follow some of my fixes in my showroom, if you choose to keep it running...

Good luck for your decision,

Matthias

 

[Grumpy pants]

I think keep the old girl going with new rere parts personally.

Strip her down, eradicate the weaknesses and replace the fatigued plastic parts that are past their best.

Theres a lot of history in that truck and a lot more miles yet 👍

I wouldn’t want to spend all that money on something I already have and throughly enjoy. 

[Saito2]

Well, I wound up getting all new plastics, everything except the space frame. I bought so much from the seller that he cut me a deal on shipping which greatly brought down the cost. The devil on my shoulder told me just to buy a new kit, but the angel told me to consume less and just fix what I've got. Seriously though, thanks for all the opinions.

[ThunderDragonCy]

41 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

Well, I wound up getting all new plastics, everything except the space frame. I bought so much from the seller that he cut me a deal on shipping which greatly brought down the cost. The devil on my shoulder told me just to buy a new kit, but the angel told me to consume less and just fix what I've got. Seriously though, thanks for all the opinions.

Good decision. You're still getting the MIP diff though, yeah? 😂

[Saito2]

55 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Good decision. You're still getting the MIP diff though, yeah? 😂

Thanks! No MIP diff though. I'll be honest, I've never had issues with that stock diff in the ORV  cars or the Hot Shot cars (and I've put some power through the Hot Shot series). That diff has only given me issues in the FAV/Wild One. At any rate, I did do the Oldfrogshot screw mod to the 'Foot eventually (along with re-re Frog dogbones) just to not tempt fate . I'm not sold on the MIP diff requiring the use of the reportedly problematic CV shafts found on the re-re ORV monsters. I'm more concerned with the alarming amount of slop found in the nylon counter gear mounts found in the pressed metal side plates. Even new, they let that counter gear wiggle around a good bit.

[ruebiracer]

MIP did a great Job on this diff, that´s true for sure. But my MB´s do it with their serial diffs, though. The old ones are good with shimming, the rere I´ve planned to assemble with old Frogshot method, because it keeps the separating forces inside the diff loading the screw. No need to reinforce the side plates. In my eyes, this is just the second best solution. The popping out drive shafts on the rere´s is just a symptom from the old design, as the diff does not sit centrally in the chassis. So one drive shaft has always more play as the other. In my slipper mod car, the 2mm widening of the gear box goes towards the shorter drive shaft side. So I never had a problem with popping out drive shaft, although I bought the rere cardans back when I built it. Soft rear springs help to prevent the pop out, too: The stiff springs need a lot of force, to go into compression movement. So the rear trailing arm does flex initially, and with the cardan being just before falling out, these can Pop out on a quick, sharp impact. If you use a weak spring, the suspension just moves and the cardan slides in the outdrive and has no chance to pop out. I use very soft springs in rear, in fact they are Top Force rear springs.  So the MB gets a liitle sag, and has some droop into Rebound. This significantly iproves the ride. If you would see mine in a Video and would compare to the old Advertising Videos, it´s easy to see the difference. Much less bouncy... 

So, that´s just my findings, MIP diff is great, but expensive if you have more runners and it doesn´t fix the drive shaft problem automatically, when using the rere cardan setup.

Keep them running,

Br,

Matthias

[graemevw]

On 5/31/2019 at 9:50 PM, Saito2 said:

Thanks! No MIP diff though. I'll be honest, I've never had issues with that stock diff in the ORV  cars or the Hot Shot cars (and I've put some power through the Hot Shot series). That diff has only given me issues in the FAV/Wild One. At any rate, I did do the Oldfrogshot screw mod to the 'Foot eventually (along with re-re Frog dogbones) just to not tempt fate . I'm not sold on the MIP diff requiring the use of the reportedly problematic CV shafts found on the re-re ORV monsters. I'm more concerned with the alarming amount of slop found in the nylon counter gear mounts found in the pressed metal side plates. Even new, they let that counter gear wiggle around a good bit.

When i built mine i took a hammer and small punch and knocked the flange on the side plates in a little at 4 points to take the slack out of that nylon bush. Seemed worthwhile.