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daddycool

What motor can I run with Sniper RV20 ESC?

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Seems a daft question, I know I’m limited to 20t brushed motor, but am I also limited to a 20t brushless motor or can I go a bit lower?

Thanks, Kris 

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It doesn't look like that ESC can run a brushless motor. ESC are different for brushed or brushless, although some can do both which is probably proof that magic is real. The kit supplied TBLE-02S is one of these and thats the reason i run them in my bashers, they are very versatile.

Your cheapest option for more speed is to buy a 20T brushed motor. Or look at a cheapish combo from the likes of Trackstar from hobbyking, for about USD75 you get a programmable ESC and brushless motor combo.

To give you an idea, silvercans are 27T and have been replaced by 21.5T brushless in onroad stock racing (touring car and F1) or 17.5T in offroad buggies. These are mental fast compared to a silvercan despite them being slow brushless motors. Its all about the gearing, a properly geared high turn brushless isn't 'that' much slower than a properly geared low turn brushless. Also, when you see tests like silvercan vs torque tuned vs sport tuned, take that with a grain of slt as they don't change the gearing.

Superstock used to be 23T brushed and is now generally 13.5T brushless.

What car is this going in? I find around 3000kv - 4000kv is great in tamiya buggies (have run them in Novafox, Boomerang and TT02B). Look for sensored as they are smoother, which means 13.5T (around 3000kv) to 10.5T (upto 4000kv) motors are the sweet spot. I run 13.5T because its well within spec of the TBLE-02S whereas 10.5T is at the limit and needs a fan.

The other thing is the gearing, look at what FDR you can achieve. For example the Boomerang has 4 pinion options giving FDR from 7.6 - 10.something, so I need the biggest pinion for a 13.5T. An FDR of 7.6 would probably suit a 10.5T motor better. A 6.5T would happily fit in there but that would be too fast. 

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Thanks for all the info! It’s going in a Dark Impact that will be used just for fun, some light off road stuff. I’ve ordered the slipper clutch and will order the 23,25 pinions so will have a choice of 23,25,26 and 78,85,87 spurs (or something). I had been looking at the super stock tz until recently when I was drawn by the efficiency and longer run times of brushless. No plans to move away from nimh just yet, I have a 3300 stick

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If you enjoy building, you can milk the building time by starting with the stock silver can for 1-2 packs.  If you go straight to the "rocket boost" power, you can't really feel the joy from the "improvement."  

[$17 option]  Sport Tuned (RC Mart lists it as a 23t motor) is zesty enough, especially if you are new to RC. (Actually, most of my bashers have the Sport Tuned... while some people enjoy cartwheeling their cars, I like mine controlled...uncontrollable cars get boring quite quickly.)  

[$40 option #1]  If you want to run 19t or 17t brushed motors, you can get hobbywing Quicrun1060 ESC.  But if you are going to spend $20 for Quicrun 1060 and another $20 for a 19t or 17t motor, I'd go with a brushless.  On paper, 17t might have similar RPM as brushless, but the high end torque is lower than a brushless.  Given the same RPM, Brushless is much stronger.  

[$40 option #2]  There are 3000kv sensorless brushless combos.  Lower quality, but cheap.  No-sensor means waterproof.  You can get 4000kv combo for the same price, but I'd stick with 3000kv or 3300kv.  The 60amp ESCs cannot really support 4000kv motors fully, so that's a bit of a seller's trick.  (You could even pair a 60A ESC with 9000kv motor. But that's like a V12 engine with a 100ml fuel tank)  "Sensorless" is cheaper than "sensored" because the ESC simply gives the electricity without getting feedback from the motor.  This could cause "cogging" problem at lower end of the RPM.  

[BEST option: $65]  Tamiya TBLE02S ESC can run a 13.5t sensored brushless motor.  13.5t is the limit for the TBLE02S, but a sensored ESC at $25 range is a bargain.  13.5t brushless will up another notch from Sport Tuned.  Like @Jonathon Gillham, many (including myself) feel this is a sweet spot for bashers. (To be honest, I got convered from "$40 option #2" to this category)  Performance is plenty, and the price is good.  13.5t brushless motor can be found at around 40 USD.  I like how it doesn't have the fan on the ESC.  (I don't like loud ESCs)  No cogging problem, much stronger than brushed motors. You can go a tooth up on the pinion, and it will still go strong.   

[$100 + Option]  Beyond TBLE-02S, ESCs tend to start at about $80.  But even faster motors start from $40.  So the motors are not terribly expensive, it's the ESCs that are expensive.  But wait.  There is Hobbywing 10BL120, claiming to be a 120A ESC.  It's relatively new.  But if it does what it claims to be, you can get it for $50, and then get a 7.5t motor for $60 and have the rocket-powered buggy cartwheeling all day long (or until it breaks... hopefully not).  

RPM is like sugar.  People always prefer sugar, but there is a point when there is just too much sugar.  

 

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@daddycool

Also consider the fitment of the motor into the DF-03 Dark Impact chassis: the orientation of the three power leads to the side of the can on the first two motors may cause interference problems in the enclosed motor plate/rear gearbox, but on the Speed Passion they point straight out the back of the motor and can be routed easier.

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8 hours ago, daddycool said:

Thanks, will order the tble02s.

Two motors I've seen, trackstar or quicrun 13.5t, the spiel suggests the quicrun should be run on lipo only....?

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-trackstar-13-5t-sensored-brushless-motor-3040kv-roar-approved.html?___store=en_us

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173391963950

If you are spending money on the ESC and its not in the kit then look at that HW 10BL120 that @Juggular mentioned. If the price is similar then buy that one, unless the ability to run brushed motors is important.  The one downside of the TBLE-02S is it doesn't have a lipo cutoff, not a major for me but nice to have the lipo protection. The 10BL120 is rated down to crazy fast motors so gives a lot of flexibility later on if (when) you want to go faster. I have a few ESC for my racers so am happy with the TBLE-02S for my bashers.

Be careful of that hobbywing motor, I suspect its fixed timing. Timing is important to get the most out of the motor. The trackstar and speed passion both have adjustable endbell timing.

I see your point that the ad suggests the motor only runs on lipo. They are actually showing the limits, so 2s limit or 3s limit. All motors will run on NiMH,  its just that lipo has better performance than NiMH.

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My standard basher combo is the TBLE-02 ESC and 13.5 t Speed Passion MMM brushless motor. It fits in every platform that can take a standard Johnson, gives excellent runtimes and a fair increase in power, and doesn't cost the Earth.

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I went with the trackstar 13.5 combo in the end. Was a pain to get running, the sensor cable was wired back to front but sorted that. Then the receiver kept dropping signal until I got a new nimh. Runs ok for now. 

Just bought a racing fighter black edition which I like the look of, it comes with torque tuned and a tble02, but I also have a super stock tz and the sniper rv20 burning a hole in a box somewhere. Rv20 is rated to 20t but do I need to consider amps or anything when powering the tz? And is the tz enough of an upgrade over a torque tuned for bashing or am I just as well to fit the cheaper motor. It’ll be just for fun. Any suggestion of what pinion pitch for the racing fighter? I have bags of 0.5  pinions for the dark impact. 

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2 hours ago, daddycool said:

Then the receiver kept dropping signal until I got a new nimh. Runs ok for now. 

Good you got it sorted, onward and upward 👍

 

2 hours ago, daddycool said:

Any suggestion of what pinion pitch for the racing fighter?

Officially the DT03 is 0.8 mod, with the option of 17t or 19t. I use 32dp which works out as 0.7938 mod 🤷‍♂️(More gear options if you get a bit creative)

 

I'm a fan of the hobbywing 1060 brushed esc, that'll run down to a 12t brushed motor on 2s (8.4v) Lipo, or 18t on 3s (12.6v) lipo, has built in cut off and pretry much just plug and play.

 

Facebook group for the dt02/03

https://m.facebook.com/groups/143755283082972?group_view_referrer=profile_browser

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