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orbita

Tamiya Fox servos/electrics

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Hi, 

I just digged out my old Tamiya Fox from early 90s. The battery and motor still seem to run but the servos and possible radio seem a bit flakey.

The throttle servo doesnt move unless I put some pressure on the servo and then it can be moved back and forth from the radio until I stop moving it. Then it needs another shove to get it going.

The steering servo seems to move the same way whether I move the radio left or right. However, I think this worked better when I swapped the steering servo on the ESC to use the throttle on the radio - leading me to consider that it's the radio at fault.

So, if I figure I probably need to replace the servos and possibly the radio/esc. 

What are my options?

Can you get original parts any more?

If I look on ebay, can I use any old tamiya servos?

How do I know what is compatible? 

Will something like these work

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183499733231

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183304307811

Can you use any radio or does the radio need to be compatible with the ESC/servos?

If the motor turns out not to be that good any more, what good replacements are there? We don't need it to go too fast, it will primarily be for my kid in the garden. We have a Arrma Granite 3s for faster bashing in the park.

Thanks for any hints and advice. 

Tom

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2 hours ago, orbita said:

Can you get original parts any more?

Others will give you a myriad of answers to the rest of your questions. But to answer just this one - sure, original parts can be found. You need to use the word "vintage" when searching ebay, there is nothing in stores these days. Many vintage original Tamiya parts for Fox can be found online. Some may require patience until they come up for sale on eBay. Some are cheap, some are expensive. To identify what vintage Tamiya parts packets actually look like, I also have this picture guide.

Any standard size/power servo with the right plug type for the receiver, should work with the receiver - what type of receiver is it? Note that common behavioural issues between AM radio and receiver might be a simple matter of needing new or different crystals.

No idea if you're interested in keeping the car vintage-ish, or upgrading totally with modern stuff, so I'll stop there :D  Typically every response threads like this will point you to modern gear, and 47 ways you can upgrade and change your Fox. Follow those if you like the sound of it. Drop someone like me a line, if you prefer keeping it original-ish.

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Curious how this works out.

I'm running a Fox with vintage Futaba servo's and radio. The commands get flakey from time to time but a good maintenance of the MSC and fully charged radiobatteries seem to help.

Are you running vintage servo's with a modern ESC en radio? Not thet this should be a problem (runs fine in my sons Hornet).

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All three of my Foxes are full vintage with period radio, MSC etc two are runners and still run fine .

its quite easy to find period servo’s receivers etc on eBay though some of the older stuff I have in my B2b was harder to find I would say 95% of the old radio I have still works great.

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Hi guys, thanks for your input so far.

I don't really have a preference for vintage or modern. I just would like to get it up and running so that it is reliable and controllable for me and my son to play with and learn how it works. I'm not looking to soup it up and I'm not looking to scour for old original parts for authenticity. If the old components are available and affordable great but equally if they can be replaced by more reliable modern ones cheaply then I'd go for that. 

The car presently has a Sanwa Dash Radio and ESC. A Sanwa servo for throttle and a Futaba servo for steering. There is a 27.255 Tx 30 Crytsal. The motor is a Ripmax Spirit 600.

At the moment, I believe there is at least 1 bad servo (the sanwa), possibly 2 and the radio/crystals are suspect. I need to figure out what to buy and keep costs sensible. 

A few questions. 

1)  If I want to replace the radio - preferably with the steering wheel style - can I go for any? does it need to be specifically compatible with the ESC? Do I need to get a Radio/ESC bundle? Any cheap ones that you would recommend?

2) Also, the crystals - what spec do I need - are these any good - https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/RC-R-c-Remote-Control-27-MHz-27-195-Am-Crystal-TX-RX/1505415913?iid=331589951790

3) From what I can see, servos seem to be pretty standard - so do you think these should work or would you recommend anything different? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Turnigy-AN3-Standard-Servo-3-6kg-cm-0-13s-fits-1-10-RC-Car-steering-Tamiya/322275063808?epid=2197068935&hash=item4b09173800:g:YIcAAOSwNRdX6rm1

4) Do the esc/servo connectors have names to identify different types? or are they all the same?

5) Assuming I get it working again, if the battery and motor are no longer performing well, what can I replace them with? Do I have to stick to Nicd? Or can I use Lipo? How do I know what battery rating it can cope with? And the motor, what would be the most sensible motor to get for it?

The one thing I might like to improve is the chassis - It used to easily snap at the front wheels when the front hit a curb. The chassis design seems to have a weakness where the plastic that goes over the steering joins the main chassis body. Does anyone have tips on strengthening in that?

Many thanks

Ps.     I've just bought an Arrma Granite 3s blx and holy **** they are amazing!  Took it down the local park at lunchtime today and couldn't believe how fast it was. Apparently it gets up to 50mph on the tarmac - keeping it in a on the path at full speed is tricky. Things have definitely moved on!

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4 hours ago, Running Fox said:

Curious how this works out.

I'm running a Fox with vintage Futaba servo's and radio. The commands get flakey from time to time but a good maintenance of the MSC and fully charged radiobatteries seem to help.

Are you running vintage servo's with a modern ESC en radio? Not thet this should be a problem (runs fine in my sons Hornet).

Hi, out of interest, how did you 'maintain' the msc? 

It's all vintage at the moment. I have no idea what the compatibility is with new/old. 

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Fox has been re-released in recent years; new cars don't get MSC anymore.

For best reliability an Electronic Speed Controller replaces the MSC & 2nd servo with a solidstate transistorised equivalent. No need to muck about with regular mechanical maintenance or resistors that get hot.

Old AM radio gear also more trouble than they're worth in a runner. For $20-30 you can buy a cheapo 2.4gHz (eg FlySky GT2B) TX & RX that don't need xtal pairs, suffer zero interference & many of the new TXes only use 4 AAs not 8. 

A basic servo (eg Futaba 3003 & equivalents) can be had for $10ish, it'll do the job for steering in a Fox. Don't need anything more torquey or faster.

 

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On 7/6/2019 at 12:40 AM, orbita said:

Hi, out of interest, how did you 'maintain' the msc? 

It's all vintage at the moment. I have no idea what the compatibility is with new/old. 

Maintenance of an MSC just requires semi-regular cleaning. The Fox has it's electrics inside a sealed chassis, which prevents most dirt reaching the MSC (compared to other cars). But over time, some dirt still does. MSCs like to be kept clean (just wipe it down to remove any dirt in the contact points), then to have a tiny little bit of Tamiya switch lubricant on the contact points to prevent dry wear. https://rcworld.com.au/product/tamiya-switch-lubricant-10g-87023/

The lubricant will of course attract dirt, hence a wipe-down and reapply after each few runs, will keep things going. When maintained, MSCs will last for many runs -  and many years. I recently ran a car with an MSC that I built on a kit I got for Christmas in 1993, and the MSC ran fine. But I don't bash hard, and I don't run cars for hours on consecutive batteries.

If you want to replace the MSC + resistors in an original Fox, the original part to use is the Super Shot Speed Controller Set, part #50282

image.png.1e52b87915e2d6fcb1f20ca926c54f0e.png

Alternatively, as Willy said, if you don't care about anything vintage tech or specifically want to upgrade for less maintenance, switch to an ESC.

The remake of the Fox isn't identical to the original Fox (in fact the remake is even called "NovaFox" not "Fox" and many parts are changed), but the basic type of ESC the kit includes can be used in your Fox when running a basic motor. For beginners Tamiya's range of basic ESCs for "brushed" motors (aka basic motors like you have) are one safe option from the brand you know https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/electronics/rc-esc-teu-105bk-brushed/

Alternatively, there are a billion other cheaper chinese ESCs out there, that others swear by, so I'll leave the rest of this thread for others...

As for crystals - yeah, any pair consisting of a Tx (Transmitter) and Rx (Receiver) in the same Mhz range (e.g. 27 in your case), should fit your radio.

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Trouble with xtals is LHS often asks A$15-20/pr even for generic AM basic ones... meh just go 2.4!!

 

Did NovaFox ever come with an MSC anywhere in the world? Don't recall ever seeing one... the kits I've touched all either had ESCs or none (Japan market). Same with the WildOne - which is real shame as that needs unique MSC with longer wires. 

 

Fox is like Hotshot with sealed tub. The less I need to unscrew that tub for maintenance the better. With originals sometimes I leave the MSC in there (mainly so it don't get lost) and fit a small ESC in the servo's spot. 

 

MSCs work ok when playing in large areas where you're always in top speed. But try to drive real slow indoors or small areas and you'll cook it quick.

 

Re-re/NovaFox is a godsend for Fox runners because we got NEW FRESHLY MINTED ARMS! :D 

Old Foxes were pretty hardy in the chassis tub & drivetrain, even the hexbones lasted long enough when correctly greased & sealed. But the plastic arms didn't age well, most Foxes got retired when stocks of spare arm sprues dwindled. They even shatter just sitting on the shelf.

Those original sprues went for crazy money at one stage. 

Many attempts made at getting compatible arms made from alloy, delrin/nylon or 3D printing. But if you make the arm too strong you'll start wrecking the mounts on the chassis on impacts etc etc.

 

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On 7/6/2019 at 6:49 PM, WillyChang said:

Fox has been re-released in recent years; new cars don't get MSC anymore.

For best reliability an Electronic Speed Controller replaces the MSC & 2nd servo with a solidstate transistorised equivalent. No need to muck about with regular mechanical maintenance or resistors that get hot.

Old AM radio gear also more trouble than they're worth in a runner. For $20-30 you can buy a cheapo 2.4gHz (eg FlySky GT2B) TX & RX that don't need xtal pairs, suffer zero interference & many of the new TXes only use 4 AAs not 8. 

A basic servo (eg Futaba 3003 & equivalents) can be had for $10ish, it'll do the job for steering in a Fox. Don't need anything more torquey or faster.

 

I think this is the way i'll go.

1) New cheap 2.4ghz controller/receiver. Can I use a Tactic TTX300 controller? It's the same as I have with my Arrma Granite and I can see some on ebay locally. 

2) Replace MSC with ESC. Can you point me to a basic/cheap ESC I could use that would fit/work?   Something like this? or are their ok cheaper alternatives?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tamiya-45057-TBLE-02S-Brushed-Brushless-ESC-Replaces-TEU105BK-TEU101BK/360827647623

3) Replace steering servo with futaba 3003 or similar. £5-10

 

If I need a new battery, can I get a LIPO?  which one would work? a 2s?

 

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