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Wild Dagger - Project Restoration

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Hi All,

Please forgive the newbie post, but hope you can help :)

Looking for advise and suggestions as have been out of the RC world for quite awhile! If I say how long it will be showing my age. lol

Anyway, I have dug out my Wild Dagger which has seen better days. The original speed controller is worn out and needs replacing with an ESC. Tyres have started to perish so new ones on order. Otherwise everything else is working.

I plan to strip it down, clean it and re-grease the gearboxes.

Reading around some of other articles on here, deciding how far to go is the challenge. I'd like to get to a point I just have some fun with it again, Nothing serious but want to some worthwhile upgrades to make it last.

Whilst the original motors work, is it worth upgrading to brushless or sticking with brushed? Which motors would work well in this truck in both options?

ESC obviously needs to be dual motor, but reading around running brushless motors seems to suggest I need two ESC. Does this mean I need a new handheld transmitter with dual channels? I did find Tamiya do a TEU-103BK for twin motors - would this work with my current motors?

The steering servo mounting needs to be improved as this seems to be an issue with this truck. I did see a 3D printed support for it on here so could try that. Any other ideas?

Was tempted to replace bearings in gearbox, but not sure if its worth it.

Shocks are original too, again not sure if its worth changing these given I'm not going to be doing anything serious. But if they make a big difference may well consider it.

Oh, batteries, I have some old NiCd and NimH 7.2v 3000mh batteries - could these still be used or have things moved on now? I guess these will need to work with the new ESC.

Do people glue tyres to the rims? Have read mixed things online. 

Thanks in advance and welcome any suggestions and ideas.

Tristan

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If you stick to stock brushed motors you can run it with one quicrun 1060. Ball-bearings will improve runtime. Steel pinion are good upgrade to prevent wear on the gears.

For better driving I can recommend alloy shocktowers ( haven't seen them in frp or carbon yet) and 90 mm oil shocks.

The servo mount works great but then I designed it ;) less wobble.

In case you haven't got a 2.4ghz remote yet the Flysky GT2E is a nice one.

Regarding the servo mount I may have some in stock.

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Awesome thanks. so great suggestions.

Looking at the quicrun 1060 -  i assume I'll need to solder an extra motor cable to run the 2nd motor?  and if i upgraded the brush motors, provided they replaced them with brush it would still be OK.

Are these the ball bearings - https://www.rcjaz.co.uk/tamiya-53008-1150-ball-bearing-p-4278.html how many will I need?

This for a steel pinion - https://www.fusionhobbies.com/product/0600-rw-racing-0-6-pinion-gear just match the tooth to what I have on at the moment?

These for shock towers - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALLOY-SHOCK-DAMPER-PLATE-B-TAMIYA-TWIN-DETONATOR-WILD-DAGGER-TOWER-/330394493833

Oil shocks - where would you get these? Any particular brand?

Ah cool, If you find a servo mount let me know , would be interested.

I have got the original stick controller, assume this wont work with new ESC? 

Thanks again for your help :)

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i recon from your post u are in UK.

for bearings checkout rcbearings.co.uk the ones in your link are a bit expensive.

yep that steel pinion should work and those shocktowers as well.

these two have tamiya CVA shocks

WS0MX-jOedEHV1oF-arOw4t5p4TMg16MEbdRsEQwni8UNOj4G7vPDoBoI_NZxxRP0bSpRwx6FEIfLCMMtW-XYwI0SbMMtE0IE1YROdN8uFO-3XXhQTjLkmj7KcZrgZUIVvPqcxR4pY4dFpMIq1HhQcuaFDYREfw3U10Ba7hfjUc74HW0Tq-lFnM4WJC9w-29QPcjkc9mCG-DavxgPap4HudVjUOKErnWya7pNvS2bBEmtWRQrEnR8O5Qj1_DudMGgasuNfIDTJEK-dfhSzkTKCBVOmwoBqQtJATi3PNaB6OxSSP-Q6rHbrez8dc4_HiDfXjXOgmEaq6lnFmy2LKviq5DnUqHjNaiwU-xCr_NAd2IduwQ4o80-EflUOwSJY0CtxoqrOlTj9WauGbGzAlrQ3e5iYyBA33P5mc63__8jlg2kTI2HIaXNY8jN7WhaT-_g16GBP-_B4qasWrR7lYqmWOWsldZrY5-ciRGYV_njBieI6OPrh4yc_j0zmfyikUwZOk8b1sDlI1jeHH9RfSXtmd5-QohMnsXOvcwe1sonmdpDFqFXzoHqevyHci9vxBnvnO6EPONM5Js0Md8Lke68xZUzlHYR-fSuY3xUMpzfRSU0D-lof0BQwkF3or-kCrm20Whr0RarRamiwVBVwVDwdS7kfPJEiA=w2047-h1150-no

And this one has some Gmade XD 103 aeration

CNz7ktklnuxyhHy0jnzn1uzQ7ZSILrniRqk5C26BDEEH_5qGuAIYjYYD1F-_ri1lP2I9bDyO9MvYoOBR9O5dqIeJu1o-g1MpYNfn-9BZONyvly3F6FDPPaNASEqFOIUe6q6dLan2tIaLe_8TB3ebg4hPjV4Z-2GIDurXrfVRWvVL7BXTouVxGp2Z8eer5z1_RIgVeXkwFabBJeP6gi8ijwpWDbUrKdDaYwCMntZQkU2Qnkz9xLNPsa0-mRoZW6L2Fb3LLEjP09TrMAjmHdTLRaJC7YvZqEiKnyFKJViR3LOWejmU96C1ig3CThgrYWu5s_lJSM83C6Pg10Rekz7Nt_-SHTNMar7iezsqjZLg0bbfTb4WWuO9xce6HS9O-FvJcm4VFrYCUTaJi2wQ0-xo9Ghdju1kJigBEakyHn9gTIrA6w5gyleJtPw5XoGe6lytOQLnkXUy6m3E2RHyOXU9xdFD52LvfZVnbQLfR9oqwoRTREaY8x_J_flqXUxs3VfUdaSCnfdyW1mf1rOE0oK2-LHdDL-0UfbD_rpdI8gpT31Lqn1a_K0HoiT200qV9t9ie3zMgve3BwHVNA3dRBuwc8qrgxyHAuFccS0CMfqlQVvCSmvcwcXf6CPeTGLXbIE3PNDrWPlGChd2mQJClkwO3c3raPSlBCA=w1616-h1212-no

I think i shortened the gmade approx 5 mm, the Tamiya 50520 have 94mm max.

I also used alloy wheel hexes and replaced the upper arms for diy with ballends.

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this is how i bolted the dampers to the chassis.

MsxQ_tqVQZDvQfcpj3untzgiEXDWItwy1kgV8m98vH_OAE3y9Lzk8eNTcl-b6Y_thUMDeRlUhVYqHTkiimASMew9dFnfFf8Z-A0rED0JPrhxM-x7Ph8mUFSeqTu_cC2xXWyJ7SZdGcDl2oyNvxHdw0Z2h-3GMMyqMa7lXjRWUnxXTuPnkgc_LEkzZJdhMH4xlwSWtUYZhuMjTBY5N1twRXd2wrn6opXIwSjoCEFNQCh_6RcnjHVoCJch7JtS4NTbLJeB-WE62xl1o2W3U_4wTqSBpXsx8OCncjj-8ABPOnoTpu0ue07usiG5wFW7VFfIifpdqbSvwgW8TDgFGMDeE9moT1q0wdCMndWFUpPdDWQLC_yG69YR-_jYMBIpFO25-eRVS6idakbm6EeWr0m5k6HQEbbUDgoBWIIzPec_ikFsYaRbyl64TfMgT_ag7iK8CkH6JfrgBWepaLR0_pOQNAdVPb1TxNSlj9tQ8qVUviU8mA9SAvCnEHU0z1iObZKhYmAWQt5IngQV4ZZkwoSIKgy2OKLoOvCBiwAbDHPzHYO4BVXVBifl-D6QSmPE9f-ngGCpeI9P_z7j8oRuBl-IZv8K95Y6m0vmjO_XnJmyrIkFKASDbgmJvLb5ZBwRXck_v0ngErvjjMG0q5DtmpIBeFA3uAsrCO8=w1008-h1212-no

for the lower stepscrew and the screws in the middle i drilled out the mount and chassis. this prevents the plastic to crack

these are the screws i used

odACAMa-27CeX3oJfYCVIniB1Z1hPbsPL8Uc4ZBKucBDeL5x83ORbiLuOTgXa8IZrpe1qpoYtZkAcAxmYZedJVNcl506tv3cquM_g8xUVMWh11vMZkw0VroPn44z0fNriq5wD0XD9zHumITGNf9RUVNj4gxHTvQFEycE69ykdgXPW0_5N0Lyh1D-7Ms2pEqjzZN81hjZSOG95RXuNbigixzu3Tgs_y4UVaMwo0n7Q-KIDGt7AP8OJpysDpuwKeuZXZXJbz0xy7EBvSVoxjdkCq9q5EQsE4WZQZN3u5HHSqNf3QofTzFIWbvHMZBFskPJZwtN95FWnT2fskAJxmQEAF1TD6uAGHwaq1sWGrpnZfEtmuvBwclnYQedLTQQM3NtAfJ-TV4ULwvAUQjPewwDSv7qaK-WAUm3edRxQBDkyW8jfWbUB-nbtjFqWPFJx9IayeOIwQcU9zjy3e9gj8wb3Z67NzuUV8SqpJJzvGcglDO7HM0ZmRpymqIb-aCLybgYsqaGgyUwBa7ZR1XJ7gsMSFcmO2U02IIcoHpjz1cGCQSZNSjazes8-2sasDdZD13BWg5dEtANTjzjHZCLczmSpdjMGbCL6NYNu7L1rfQbHknSYqySnk4Z_hQFfJPHzWKjmqfYQ-xmGDY7k7fOhqM4XEUPOcRWWrS8ZSl4gN8kyp_7rxI7dqg6NeqH=w1546-h1212-no

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Fibre-lyte make some carbon versions of those shocktowers but I have no knowledge of durability. Other TCers have had parts from them and have been pleased, I think.

https://www.fibre-lyte.co.uk/fl/cars/tamiya/wilddagger.html

Have a look at the tooth count on the gearbox to make sure you get the right one. 0.6 pitch is correct, I think.

The manual might help. This chassis spawned four models, I think - Dual Hunter, Twin Detonator, Wild Dagger and...another one?!

https://www.tamiya.com/english/rc/rcmanual/twindeto.pdf

For a dual motor ESC I would look at this...

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/hobbywing-quicrun-0880-dual-motor-brushed-esc-80a-waterproof/rc-car-products/440053

As for upgrading motors, this thread and the associated link might help

My son loves his Dual Hunter and so do I! Enjoy!

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Thanks @waterbok , very helpful.

Yes in the UK, thanks for the bearing link will get some on order, along with pinion and shockmounts.

Gmade looks good, I see they do a 93mm version, I guess this would save me having to cut them down 5mm.

Are those screw sets available online? I'm sure it all make sense when I strip it down and which bolt needs to go where. Do you have a picture of the diy upper arms and ball ends?

Like the idea of alloy wheel hexes and drilling out and putting a nut and bolt through makes sense. These M4 or M5?

@Badcrumble thanks for the links thats great, dual motor ESC would make life easier. 

Think I'll get it up and running again with the above suggestions and improvements and then look to do motors later on :) 

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I loved my old Wild Dagger, it's been out of action for best part of a decade and I keep meaning to put it back together again.

To re-iterate - allow shock towers with 90-100mm oil shocks will improve suspension travel and handling.  Tamiya's plastic CVA shocks are very good for the money - much better than many cheaper alloy shocks from ebay.  Have heard good things about GMade shocks too.  Most brand-name shocks are good but ebay is full of unbranded tat with bizarre-sized ball cups that naturally don't come with ball nuts.  I think there's a thread on here somewhere about recommended shock suppliers.

Bearings have already been mentioned and are a must for smoother running, IMO.

Tyres should be glued - otherwise the tyres might spin in the wheels if they get damp.  Superglue / tyre glue is the 'correct' stuff for the job but hot glue is easier to remove if you want to change wheels / tyres later.  I think there's some other good advice on tyre glue here.

Your old NiCd batteries might not be up to much now.  Personally I'm a big fan of LiPo batteries but you will need a new charger and a LiPo warning alarm or a LiPo-compatible speed controller.  Most modern speed controllers (but not Tamiya ones!!) are LiPo safe.  A 2S LiPo has similar power output (but way more capacity) than your old NiCds, a 3S LiPo has 50% more power again.  A lot of modern speed controllers are now 3S compatible.  Tamiya silver can motors can take 3S power.  When I get around to rebuilding mine I'll probably use a 3S-compatible dual-motor ESC and silvercans.  The thread linked above has some good advice on motor and ESC, you have to remember that the front motor spins backwards on a Wild Dagger, a lot of tuned motors have fixed advanced timing and won't run very well in reverse.

I think there's a fair few dual-motor ESCs on the market now, but depending on what you want and what you can get hold of it might be cheaper to run two single-motor ESCs.  You'll need to make up a battery splitter cable to supply both ESCs with battery power, and you need a modified servo Y lead to connect both ESCs into the same channel on the receiver.  You'll need to snip the middle wire on one of the Y-branches, as this is the positive BEC output from the ESC to the receiver.  You don't need to power the receiver twice ;) Remember to reverse the motor wires on the front ESC otherwise your truck will disappear inside itself when you connect it up.

Your old radio will probably be fine with an ESC, unless it is truly ancient.  However if you've got the budget, 2.4GHz will be easier and more reliable.

Wild Dagger steering is pretty basic for something with big wheels.  A better servo mount will reduce flex.  A high-torque servo will give a bit more control, if you want to spend the extra.  Your servo saver may well be a bit soft, an aftermarket servo saver might improve things.  If you want to go crazy, you can reduce bump-steer by mounting two servos - one on either side of the chassis - joined by a link in the middle.  This makes the steering rods shorter - closer in length to the suspension arms - and tightens up the steering.  You'll need a Y-lead to hook up the servos.  You can get away with using cheaper servos because they're sharing the load.  This mod massively improved the control of my old truck.

Other than that, the Wild Dagger is a fun backyard basher - don't expect it to be more than that and you'll have lots of fun with it.

This thread makes me want mine running again!

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An alternative to superglue on the tyres is silicone sealant - also easy to remove with the right product.

@Mad Ax - going to have to look at that dual servo mod!!!!

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18 hours ago, Badcrumble said:

An alternative to superglue on the tyres is silicone sealant - also easy to remove with the right product.

Is there any specific type of silicone sealant to look for?  I assume anything clear, flexible and designed for general purpose?

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1 hour ago, Blista said:

Is there any specific type of silicone sealant to look for?  I assume anything clear, flexible and designed for general purpose?

Not sure where I read it (pretty sure it was on here somewhere) but I got some 'windscreen seal repair'  silicone - small tube so easy to handle and has a relatively fine tip nozzle to make it easier to apply.

Something like this...

Linky to Amazon

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18
22 hours ago, Mad Ax said:

I loved my old Wild Dagger, it's been out of action for best part of a decade and I keep meaning to put it back together again.

To re-iterate - allow shock towers with 90-100mm oil shocks will improve suspension travel and handling.  Tamiya's plastic CVA shocks are very good for the money - much better than many cheaper alloy shocks from ebay.  Have heard good things about GMade shocks too.  Most brand-name shocks are good but ebay is full of unbranded tat with bizarre-sized ball cups that naturally don't come with ball nuts.  I think there's a thread on here somewhere about recommended shock suppliers.

Bearings have already been mentioned and are a must for smoother running, IMO.

Tyres should be glued - otherwise the tyres might spin in the wheels if they get damp.  Superglue / tyre glue is the 'correct' stuff for the job but hot glue is easier to remove if you want to change wheels / tyres later.  I think there's some other good advice on tyre glue here.

Your old NiCd batteries might not be up to much now.  Personally I'm a big fan of LiPo batteries but you will need a new charger and a LiPo warning alarm or a LiPo-compatible speed controller.  Most modern speed controllers (but not Tamiya ones!!) are LiPo safe.  A 2S LiPo has similar power output (but way more capacity) than your old NiCds, a 3S LiPo has 50% more power again.  A lot of modern speed controllers are now 3S compatible.  Tamiya silver can motors can take 3S power.  When I get around to rebuilding mine I'll probably use a 3S-compatible dual-motor ESC and silvercans.  The thread linked above has some good advice on motor and ESC, you have to remember that the front motor spins backwards on a Wild Dagger, a lot of tuned motors have fixed advanced timing and won't run very well in reverse.

I think there's a fair few dual-motor ESCs on the market now, but depending on what you want and what you can get hold of it might be cheaper to run two single-motor ESCs.  You'll need to make up a battery splitter cable to supply both ESCs with battery power, and you need a modified servo Y lead to connect both ESCs into the same channel on the receiver.  You'll need to snip the middle wire on one of the Y-branches, as this is the positive BEC output from the ESC to the receiver.  You don't need to power the receiver twice ;) Remember to reverse the motor wires on the front ESC otherwise your truck will disappear inside itself when you connect it up.

Your old radio will probably be fine with an ESC, unless it is truly ancient.  However if you've got the budget, 2.4GHz will be easier and more reliable.

Wild Dagger steering is pretty basic for something with big wheels.  A better servo mount will reduce flex.  A high-torque servo will give a bit more control, if you want to spend the extra.  Your servo saver may well be a bit soft, an aftermarket servo saver might improve things.  If you want to go crazy, you can reduce bump-steer by mounting two servos - one on either side of the chassis - joined by a link in the middle.  This makes the steering rods shorter - closer in length to the suspension arms - and tightens up the steering.  You'll need a Y-lead to hook up the servos.  You can get away with using cheaper servos because they're sharing the load.  This mod massively improved the control of my old truck.

Other than that, the Wild Dagger is a fun backyard basher - don't expect it to be more than that and you'll have lots of fun with it.

This thread makes me want mine running again!

Thanks @Mad Ax,  some great pointers.

will probably be going for the Gmade aeration 93mm shocks, bearing already on order :) do I need to change of the link arms or driveshafts or can they cope with longer shocks?

just found the old manual for the car, says 'Do not cement' the tyres to the rims, guess this was a while ago though! Will get some sealant and see how it goes.

Thanks for the advice on batteries, yes had considered LiPo, but project will run away on cost. For now I'll stick with some new 7.2v NiMh batteries and see how I get on. 

As for ESC, the Qiuckrun 0880 is a dual motor for brushed so will probably go with this for now.

Will probably stretch to a new 2.4Ghz radio as the suggested one by @waterbok looks good and cost effective.

Hadnt thought about servo upgrade, just the support side of things, but it does make sense. Awesome dual servo mod idea! Would never have thought have that. Will probably just stick to a single. Would this do for an upgrade https://www.modelsport.co.uk/power-hd-lw20-waterproof-high-torque-metal-gear-servo-blue/rc-car-products/404890 and will the original servo saver fit onto this or best to get a new one?

 

 

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2 hours ago, Badcrumble said:

Not sure where I read it (pretty sure it was on here somewhere) but I got some 'windscreen seal repair'  silicone - small tube so easy to handle and has a relatively fine tip nozzle to make it easier to apply.

Something like this...

Linky to Amazon

@Badcrumble thanks will give this a go too :)

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Servo saver, did I mention Kimbrough?

Those work fine.

 

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Just now, waterbok said:

Servo saver, did I mention Kimbrough?

Those work fine.

 

No, will check it out. Thanks. 

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I found some spare servo mounts I had ordered from Shapeways, they are the standard white.

I can ship them of for 14€ a piece (Europe only, Worldwide would be an extra 4€)  standard mail, no tracking or insurance.

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Hi All,

Thanks for all the advice.

The restoration is well underway. Completely stripped down and cleaned

IMG_20190718_200756.thumb.jpg.97783f74299548ac17215574fb784981.jpg

 

IMG_20190718_200803.thumb.jpg.337ac041fcfc00c8631e63953d7b2326.jpg

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Now the rebuild

Gearboxes completed and ready with 20T pinion upgrade, new Savos servo and custom servo mount thanks to @waterbok ready to go in.

Sadly the GMade shocks are still 3 weeks out so will rebuild with standard for now to get it up and running

IMG_20190723_201433.thumb.jpg.8350195182ad0cc757c566ee57aea0a5.jpg

 

 

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Servo is fitted. No movement at all. Should make steering much better!

IMG_20190723_204445.thumb.jpg.d95e022f18c2138039f4651d69075c9b.jpg

 

Thats as far as I have got so far....More updates to follow.

Thanks

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Evening All, had a few constructive evenings at the weekend

Front and rear axles assembled and ESC fitted along with receiver. 

FT2 transmitter was already paired which made things easy. 

Reprogrammed ESC with Program Card to suit. The 0880 dual motor ESC requires the program card for brushless motors. Basically ignore the instructions that come with the program card :) 

And it all runs, motors work well being the age they are. Had an odd noise from rear gearbox so stripped it down again and found a bit of grit stuck in one of the cogs. All sorted now.

IMG_20190727_141134.thumb.jpg.1258acb169c4aa77f9cd41201b7214f9.jpgIMG_20190727_141126.thumb.jpg.cac6480b669b4368df688a85b51c6406.jpg

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Wheels on with new tyres, I've not glued them will see how it performs.

Running the standard shocks at the moment as still waiting for the new shocks to arrive. Metal Wheel Hexes also ordered but haven't arrived yet.

IMG_20190727_142458.thumb.jpg.da557956c4df78ef5faab3d05072607a.jpgIMG_20190728_140648.thumb.jpg.fcd5be45f01b7d54afc914e5acb93458.jpg

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I charged up my old NiCd and NiMh batteries and they have provided a few minutes of fun, but they dont hold charge very well. TBH I'm surprised they still took the charge and worked after so long.l. So have ordered some new NiMh ones.

Have cable tied receiver for the moment, will put this in a balloon to weatherproof it soon and cable tie to the chassis.

Great fun to have it up and running again. Tyres seem to grip the wheels at the moment dont think I'll glue them just yet.

Range with the 2.4Ghz is amazing, and the new servo and mount make steering very precise, does understeer on full power cornering though :)

 

 

IMG_20190728_141009.thumb.jpg.b73dbf6653c3e1bccb820266cf319f65.jpgIMG_20190728_140653.thumb.jpg.e9ab88dc42de3fcc815c6619c05d60ad.jpg

Now just enjoying it. Once new batteries arrive up the woods we go! :) 

That's it for now, once shocks arrive I'll post some more pics.

 

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