FF01 Civic 1994 restore or not?

[TurnipJF]

11 minutes ago, legau said:

Do you think it would be wise to order the full new ball bearing kit with the 2 outdrives ? 

When a ball diff is new or correctly greased, is it easy to turn or really difficult ? Because mine seems to be difficult to rotate, well there is some force if I can say

 

A ball diff is adjustable, and can be either quite easy or quite hard to turn depending on how you have it set. That is one of the things that you can adjust to make the car suited to your driving style and different track conditions, so there is no one right answer.

If any of your bearings are worn or corroded, a new bearing kit is a good idea. They don't cost very much these days. However I would check the outdrives and the diff before ordering replacements. The outdrives are made of a harder metal than the diff internals, so if any spines are worn, there is a greater chance that it will be the splines in the diff that are suffering rather than the ones on the outdrives.

[legau]

37 minutes ago, TurnipJF said:

A ball diff is adjustable, and can be either quite easy or quite hard to turn depending on how you have it set. That is one of the things that you can adjust to make the car suited to your driving style and different track conditions, so there is no one right answer.

If any of your bearings are worn or corroded, a new bearing kit is a good idea. They don't cost very much these days. However I would check the outdrives and the diff before ordering replacements. The outdrives are made of a harder metal than the diff internals, so if any spines are worn, there is a greater chance that it will be the splines in the diff that are suffering rather than the ones on the outdrives.

In the manual, they don’t explain how to adjust the ball diff. They only show how to close it with the key, that’s it.

i suppose that depends on wether you tighten it or not? Or there is different settings with the ball diff ?

If you talk about the ball bearings, I just replaced all the bushing with bearings, those of the diff included.

you point something quite interesting. I was thinking to that as well but I don’t know how to check if the splines of the diff are good or not. 

I think you also have a FF01 ? Do you have a video to show how it behave when you accelerate and go idle ? How is the handling ? Thanks for your help, much appreciated

 

[waterbok]

The TA/FF diff isn't really adjustable, just tighten it as in the manual.

[legau]

Do the Tamiya 53070 would fit for the FF01? I’m pretty sure yes but before buying it I would like to be sure.

i am now more and more confident that the problem is located at the diff or the outdrives. There is no other logical explanation. And the fact that the external wheel bushing were not installed during initial mounting confirm this fact. The play at the wheel was enormous, so it can explain that the dogbones, the outdrives moved a lot in the internal diff and eat the splines. 

It is really when there is a “shock”. But to be sure I will take the Tamiya 53070 and Tamiya 50493 parts to be sure that everything is new. I will double check the frame to be sure nothing is cracked.

i saw a lot of YouTube video with Ff01 hopped up with power brushless, but they all seems to handle quite smooth. I’m tired to unmount / remount everything and still have this handling + gear skipping problem. 

What do you think ?

[TurnipJF]

3 hours ago, waterbok said:

The TA/FF diff isn't really adjustable, just tighten it as in the manual.

While I agree that it does not have the same range of adjustment as a diff using a coil spring, there is still some adjustment possible. It is similar in this respect to the diff used in the F103 which also uses cone washers instead of a coil spring, and adjusting that is a key tuning aid.

 

10 hours ago, legau said:

In the manual, they don’t explain how to adjust the ball diff. They only show how to close it with the key, that’s it.

i suppose that depends on wether you tighten it or not? Or there is different settings with the ball diff ?

There are no set adjustment points. You can set how stiff it is by tightening or loosening the bolt that keeps the diff internals together. It is a bit of a faff, but you can change the feel of the diff through careful adjustment of how tightly the bolt compresses the cone washer springs.

10 hours ago, legau said:

I think you also have a FF01 ? Do you have a video to show how it behave when you accelerate and go idle ? How is the handling ?

I do indeed have a FF-01, and it handles very nicely. As long as it is on a surface with consistent grip, it accelerates and brakes in a straight line with no undue deviation. Of course if it is on a surface with inconsistent grip and one side is gripping more than the other, it will deviate from a straight line, but that is perfectly normal. I don't have a stock video of it, but I will see if I can get one posted over the next few days.

[TurnipJF]

10 hours ago, legau said:

You point something quite interesting. I was thinking to that as well but I don’t know how to check if the splines of the diff are good or not. 

The only way of being sure is to take the diff out, and see if the outdrives can rotate at all relative to the splined parts into which they fit. Trying to do it with the diff in situ is difficult, as it is hard to tell if any slippage is due to the splines slipping or the diff itself slipping.

[TurnipJF]

3 hours ago, legau said:

Do the Tamiya 53070 would fit for the FF01? I’m pretty sure yes but before buying it I would like to be sure.

Yes it does. The FF-01 uses the same ball diff as you'll find in the Manta Ray.

[legau]

Thanks TurnipJF

i will have a look next tuesday but this not explains why there is a huge torque steer. I guess there is something else than just splines being wore out. Or may be one side more than the other! Would that explains the torque steer ?

What about the toe in of your Ff01? Could you send a picture ?

i also see that the steering arms are not perfectly horizontal. They have a slope between the wheel and the servo, you also have that ?

one last question : is it best to have the diff really hard to rotate or very free ?

Thanks again for your contribution.

[TurnipJF]

9 hours ago, legau said:

Thanks TurnipJF

i will have a look next tuesday but this not explains why there is a huge torque steer. I guess there is something else than just splines being wore out. Or may be one side more than the other! Would that explains the torque steer ?

 

If the splines are worn, chances are it would only be on one side, and this would cause the car to go quite severely out of line under both acceleration and braking. 

As soon as one side's splines wear out, they will slip, and the slipping will relieve stress from the splines on the opposite side by virtue of the diff passing more power to the slipping side. 

You might even be able to tell which side is slipping by watching the car under acceleration and braking. Under acceleration it will tend to try to steer towards the slipping side, under braking it will try to steer away from the slipping side.

Of course if there is no pattern, it might indicate both sides are worn and they slip at random, or that there is another explanation entirely...

[TurnipJF]

9 hours ago, legau said:

What about the toe in of your Ff01? Could you send a picture ?

I don't run any toe in on the front of my FF-01. I am actually running about two degrees of toe out. When the car accelerates, the slight flex and play in the linkages pulls the wheels almost perfectly straight.

[TurnipJF]

9 hours ago, legau said:

I also see that the steering arms are not perfectly horizontal. They have a slope between the wheel and the servo, you also have that

My steering arms are pretty much parallel with the upper links. Whether they are horizontal or not depends on how much the suspension is compressed. 

[TurnipJF]

9 hours ago, legau said:

One last question : is it best to have the diff really hard to rotate or very free ?

The car benefits from having the diff quite tight, so that even if one front wheel loses grip under acceleration, the other still has drive transmitted to it. Some people go as far as to fit a spool, which is basically a solid connection between the left and right wheels with no differential action at all.

[legau]

Hello, please find some video of the torque steering problem and gears skipping.

https://youtu.be/8lTDDiVcAG4

https://youtu.be/9ah2NGJHnNM

https://youtu.be/D4o8cxeBNeI

what do you think ?

[legau]

[legau]

Hey Guys, I think I know where the problem is. It is related to the steering. 

Look at the video :

 

Can I find these parts easily or do you have another idea to solve this problem ?

thanks 

 

 

[TurnipJF]

GPM's DF1048 steering set or equivalent alloy ballraced steering should sort that out. That is what I use on my car. 

While the wiggly steering would explain vague and unpredictable handling, I'm not sure if this is causing your car to consistently pull to one side under acceleration. It would benefit from being sorted anyway, so you could upgrade the steering rack and take things from there?

 

[legau]

1 minute ago, TurnipJF said:

GPM's DF1048 steering set or equivalent alloy ballraced steering should sort that out. That is what I use on my car. 

While the wiggly steering would explain vague and unpredictable handling, I'm not sure if this is causing your car to consistently pull to one side under acceleration. It would benefit from being sorted anyway, so you could upgrade the steering rack and take things from there?

 

Hey TurnipJF, thanks again for your reply. Actually, I did a test today. I put some superglue in the holes, and now the steering is really stiff, it is FINALLY steering straight !!!! 

This is temporary of course. I will order the gpm parts you mentioned. Any other advice for the steering ? If not, thanks for your precious suggestions. 

Hope i will find the gpm parts easily

[TurnipJF]

The alloy steering is very good at reducing slop. It doesn't get rid of all of it, but it makes things a lot better:

It stops the wheels from wobbling around like they do on your car, which seems to be the source of the chattering noise:

 

[legau]

I just ordered the steering part.

what else do you have installed on your ff01?

[TurnipJF]

23 minutes ago, legau said:

What else do you have installed on your ff01?

Mine is pretty close to stock. I have the alloy ballraced steering rack, a steel pinion, black alloy front hubs because I didn't like the look of the blue ones, and of course full ballraces. Apart from that, the chassis is factory standard.