Tt02b plasma edge II upgrade ?

[legau]

Hey guys,

My plasma edge II is now equipped with a brushless motor, 12t 3100kv and a 22t pinion. I use NiMH and am very happy with the performance for the moment.

I changed the tires for rally tires and it is a pleasure to drive on the road.

however, I read a lot of topic about the diff and transmission being fragile, but I don’t know what to order to replace the plastic gears ?

i read the df02 diff would almost fit, just one piece to modify. I also read the gpm one would fit but quality ?. Now in 2019 what would you take ? Can we put ball diff in the tt02b ? What would you change ?

I already ordered the ball bearings kit. But is it interesting to replace the steering or the strut supports for the aluminium ones ? 

There is a lot of upgrades for that model and I really wonder which ones are a must to have (like the metal diff for example).

i already broke a servo, so is the servo saver a must ? Or another servo with more torque? Which one ? 

If i go on Lipo, anything to take care ?

do I need to buy the radiator for the motor now that I have a brushless? 

There is a lot of thread about the Tt02b but they are pretty old for the most. If someone knows a good place with all the parts number he would recommend, that would be very appreciated.

thanks a lot

 

 

[TurnipJF]

The GPM gears had some tolerance issues with the first batch, but I haven't read of anyone having any issues with more recent batches, so since they are easier to find than the DF-02 diffs and require no modification, this would be my recommendation.

A basic metal geared servo would be a good idea as the front wheels are usually the first things to hit in a collision, and can thus easily strip a plastic geared servo. And yes, a servo saver is a must. It protects the servo and the rest of the steering linkages from shocks. 

As for the rest though, I would go for FRP shock towers rather than alloy ones. Alloy tends to get tweaked in a hard collision and pass on damaging collision forces to the gearbox housings whereas FRP has some springiness and will spring back to place in a light collision or crack in a heavy one, protecting the gearbox housings. 

As for a motor heatsink, hard to say. If your motor gets too hot for you to keep a finger on it for 3 seconds after a run, then a heatsink and fan would be a good idea. If it stays cool enough without one, there is no need. 

[legau]

Thanks for the reply TurnipJF.

can you recommend a place online where I can order the parts ? Or a way to not order the bad ones ? 

Because I often see parts for the TT02 but i’m Not always sure they are compatible (e.g. the shock towers are specific to the B right ?)

and for the servo, any particular recommendations ? Brand/type ?

no the motor seems not so hot and I have a fan on the esc.

What do you think about the propeller shaft and joint in Aluminum? Needed or not ?

 

thanks 

[nbTMM]

The shock towers, suspension, hubs, driveshafts and steering tie rods are unique to the TT02B. Everything else is identical to the regular TT02 so anything to do with the motor, propshaft, propjoints and diffs should fit either.

I've been running a 7.5t (5100kv) motor on 3S LiPo in my TT-02 and no complaints from the standard plastic diffs, although I have shimmed both differential pinion gears (about 0.3-0.5mm of shims if I remember correctly) to make the mesh between the pinion gear and crown gear tighter and avoid skipping teeth. If the diffs eventually fail I'll source replacements or upgrade to metal diffs, no big deal as they as they are readily available (Tamiya part #51531).

There is nothing wrong with the standard propeller shaft in my opinion as long as it isn't warped. If it doesn't flop around like a wet noodle when you pin the throttle I'd leave it. Maybe with a really powerful motor, launching the car on asphalt, the plastic propeller joints or shaft might fail but honestly I doubt it. I would think that even with a mild motor someone would have already broken one as if you have a crash that tries to turn the front wheels in one direction and the rear wheels in the opposite direction the entire propshaft arrangement and diffs will be stressed. I've never heard of anyone breaking the standard TT02 propshaft. I run an aluminium propeller shaft and joints just for the bling.

Servo saver or not, eventually servos wear out, especially if you do a lot of jumps or crash. A servo saver will definitely make your servo last longer. The plastic one that comes with the TT02/TT02B kit is not too bad to be honest, although I like the Tamiya high torque servo saver (tamiya part #51000). It takes more force to activate and then it returns back to centre better. There is also a steering upgrade kit (#54752) that gives you that servo saver with an aluminium horn, and the ball-bearing aluminium steering parts - it's not cheap but better value than buying those upgrades individually.

For servos, honestly I've only ever bought cheapish ones, but I'm currently using this one in my TT02: 
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/trackstar-ts-411mg-digital-1-10-scale-short-course-steering-servo-11-1kg-0-09sec-57g.html 
It's reasonably fast, strong and has survived numerous crashes.

As for buying upgrade parts, if you want them to work 100% without faffing about stick to the genuine Tamiya hop-ups. When considering buying third party brand hop ups, if you're unsure about the quality do some research first (youtube reviews, forum posts). Even then it doesn't always work out - I've bought third party parts which fit fine, meanwhile people have complained about the exact same parts not fitting their cars on this forum and elsewhere. I'm always prepared to have to modify third party parts to get them to fit properly - many of the cheap aluminium parts offered online are probably churned out in their hundreds on a CNC milling machine and there is little quality control. Sometimes those parts need a bit of hand finishing with some sandpaper to take off the rough edges, minor hand filing, threads cleaned out with a tap, or holes reamed slightly larger to work as intended. I guess if you buy through ebay/paypal then you can always hold the seller accountable for a return if it isn't fit for use.

[TurnipJF]

13 hours ago, legau said:

Thanks for the reply TurnipJF.

can you recommend a place online where I can order the parts ? Or a way to not order the bad ones ? 

Because I often see parts for the TT02 but i’m Not always sure they are compatible (e.g. the shock towers are specific to the B right ?)

and for the servo, any particular recommendations ? Brand/type ?

no the motor seems not so hot and I have a fan on the esc.

What do you think about the propeller shaft and joint in Aluminum? Needed or not ?

 

thanks 

I get most of my Tamiya parts from Tony's Tamiya Parts on eBay. He knows his stuff and can advise you as to what will fit what.

As for the servo, I have been getting very good service from my Alturns, bought from Modelsport. The AAS750MG will fit the bill nicely. 

I run an aluminium shaft but the stock joints in mine. The joints have lasted about 3 years so far on 13.5t brushless and LiPo with no visible wear, so I think they are up to the task!

[legau]

Hello nbTMM, thanks for your long reply ;-)

Just a precision, what do you mean by "shimmed" (sorry english is not my mother tongue). Do I need to understand you have modified the positioning of the part in the diff ? by putting some "rings" to reduce the space or the play with the main spur gear right ?

Because that's an important thing i have to tell you : when I accelerate, sometimes, i hear like the pinion is missing a tooth of the spur gear. but it is totally random and not especially when I go to full throttle. May be I can use your tips ? or do I need another support for the motor?

Ok for the shaft, just for the bling then

Ok but what if I take a servo with metal gears ? I just bought two, one savox for the the TT02B and one Konect for my future Xray car. Do I steel need the servo saver in that case?

Thanks for the recommendation for the third party parts. I guess i will do the same as you, wait that my diff breaks to replace it ;-)

 

 

[legau]

14 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

I get most of my Tamiya parts from Tony's Tamiya Parts on eBay. He knows his stuff and can advise you as to what will fit what.

As for the servo, I have been getting very good service from my Alturns, bought from Modelsport. The AAS750MG will fit the bill nicely. 

I run an aluminium shaft but the stock joints in mine. The joints have lasted about 3 years so far on 13.5t brushless and LiPo with no visible wear, so I think they are up to the task!

OK I will check that, I still have to check the shipping cost to Belgium. For the servo, I'm good now ;-)

ok for the shaft, I will focus on other upgrades, like the ball bearing and eventually tyres and Lipo.

But I find my 12T 3100Kv very efficient with a 7.2v NiMH and 23T pinion in it. I'm afraid that a Lipo, even a 2S, will be too much power in it. What do you think?

 

[nbTMM]

1 hour ago, legau said:

Just a precision, what do you mean by "shimmed" (sorry english is not my mother tongue). Do I need to understand you have modified the positioning of the part in the diff ? by putting some "rings" to reduce the space or the play with the main spur gear right ?

Shims are just thin washers with a precise thickness. I put about 0.3-0.5mm total thickness of shims onto the propeller joint shaft between the bearing and the differential pinion gear (black bevel gear) to bring it closer/tighter to the diff. For most parts on a TT02 you need shims with a 5mm inner diameter, e.g. https://hobbyking.com/en_us/inner-5mm-trim-washer-pack.html. You can also install shims on the drive shafts where they install into the hubs, and onto the suspension pivots to reduce slop in those components.

1 hour ago, legau said:

when I accelerate, sometimes, i hear like the pinion is missing a tooth of the spur gear. but it is totally random and not especially when I go to full throttle. May be I can use your tips ? or do I need another support for the motor

 

Carefully inspect all the gear teeth for damage. Usually when gears start skipping one tooth gets chipped or bent and it continues skipping only on that tooth, causing more and more wear each time it skips.

Check the motor is mounted on the correct set of holes for the gears being used and that the mesh is OK. If you hold either the motor spur or pinion gear stationary, you should be able to rock the other gear back and forward just a tiny amount. They should not be tight, nor too loose. 

To check the diff pinion/crown gear mesh you can forcibly turn both rear wheels while trying to prevent the front wheels from turning. If either set of diff gears had a problem you'd be able to make them skip. You can also try pressing down all the diff/propjoint bearings down to the chassis while the differential and motor covers removed, and gently rocking the diff back and forward to check the mesh between the gears. Like the motor gears they should only be able to rock a tiny amount. 
 
If all looks good, it might not actually be skipping teeth. Sometimes just backlash in the drivetrain can cause loud noises, as well as the ESC briefly cutting in and out due to current limiting or if the batteries voltage sags briefly which is common on NiMH when you accelerate reasonably hard from a stop. Damaged or dirty driveshafts may also be able to bind up and then cause a loud 'pop' as they click back into place.

1 hour ago, legau said:

Ok but what if I take a servo with metal gears ? I just bought two, one savox for the the TT02B and one Konect for my future Xray car. Do I steel need the servo saver in that case?

You don't specifically 'need' a servo saver. As long as the saver is stiff enough so it doesn't interfere with the steering operation under normal conditions, it's nice to have as it could be the difference between the servo surviving a crash or being damaged. I still run them with metal gear servos. For competition racing I'd consider not running one.

[Jonathon Gillham]

9 hours ago, legau said:

Because that's an important thing i have to tell you : when I accelerate, sometimes, i hear like the pinion is missing a tooth of the spur gear. but it is totally random and not especially when I go to full throttle. May be I can use your tips ? or do I need another support for the motor?

That to me sounds like the ring gear on the rear diff which is the major weakness in the TT02B drivetrain. It will keep going for a while yet if its intermitrant. You have a few options.

The new diffs are very cheap so you coukd just put another standard one

Look at the GPM ring gear for the TT02, you can just get the ring gear or the full set. The internals are fine, the ring tear is all thats necessary, although I have heard of people ruining the plastic diff pinion gear if they just upgrade the ring gear.

The DF02 diffs

I went with DF02 diffs but only run them with hotter motors, i find they slow the torque tuned down a lot. Otherwise mine just have bearings and have run for 3 years with a lot of abuse

[legau]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies. So far so good, i just notice my front shock tower was crackled around a screw. The steering is affected. Nothing bad since I ordered a front and rear damper stays made of FRP (I saw also carbon’s on eBay, did I make the good choice with FRP or carbon is best ? ) from tony on eBay (thanks turnipjpf) 

The ball bearings are now installed and I hope I will receive the damper stays very soon to install everything and test the new behaviour. 

i am still hesitating with the aluminium steering parts and the servo saver, and with the gears from GPM for the diffs. May be it should be wise to order them already since the shipment can take a while. But is it worthy, that’s the big question.

today, I also bought a new kit, TT02. I ordered a speed passion 13,5T since a lot of you recommend it. Unfortunately, I took 2 ball bearings but I see on the bag they are for the tt02b and tt01 only. Is it really different for the tt02? I was convinced it was compatible...

So for the gears, after some runs, I don’t ear anything ( I put everything in place again), but the FF01 is now doing some weird noises...I will investigate.

i’m pretty happy with the tt02b as is for the moment, but if you see other suggestions to improve or to anticipate wear out or break, please don’t hesitate

 

[Jonathon Gillham]

2 hours ago, legau said:

Hey guys, thanks for the replies. So far so good, i just notice my front shock tower was crackled around a screw. The steering is affected. Nothing bad since I ordered a front and rear damper stays made of FRP (I saw also carbon’s on eBay, did I make the good choice with FRP or carbon is best ? ) from tony on eBay (thanks turnipjpf) 

The ball bearings are now installed and I hope I will receive the damper stays very soon to install everything and test the new behaviour. 

i am still hesitating with the aluminium steering parts and the servo saver, and with the gears from GPM for the diffs. May be it should be wise to order them already since the shipment can take a while. But is it worthy, that’s the big question.

today, I also bought a new kit, TT02. I ordered a speed passion 13,5T since a lot of you recommend it. Unfortunately, I took 2 ball bearings but I see on the bag they are for the tt02b and tt01 only. Is it really different for the tt02? I was convinced it was compatible...

So for the gears, after some runs, I don’t ear anything ( I put everything in place again), but the FF01 is now doing some weird noises...I will investigate.

i’m pretty happy with the tt02b as is for the moment, but if you see other suggestions to improve or to anticipate wear out or break, please don’t hesitate

 

The bearing kits should be the same for TT02 and TT02B as far as I know. I think they are pretty much thesame car other than arms, shocks and damper stays.

I wouldn't spend the money on the steering kit, the plasric works fine but there is a bit of slop in it. Personally I keep my TT02Bs as standard as possible and just do necessary things for durability. Put the money you would spend towards a better kit to start with. The DB01 is an option, otherwise you're looking at a different brand.

[legau]

On 7/6/2019 at 3:04 AM, Jonathon Gillham said:

The bearing kits should be the same for TT02 and TT02B as far as I know. I think they are pretty much thesame car other than arms, shocks and damper stays.

I wouldn't spend the money on the steering kit, the plasric works fine but there is a bit of slop in it. Personally I keep my TT02Bs as standard as possible and just do necessary things for durability. Put the money you would spend towards a better kit to start with. The DB01 is an option, otherwise you're looking at a different brand.

I confirm the ball bearings kit is NOT the same up to a certain point. Indeed, the size of the bearings for the wheels are slightly smaller than the one for the TT02B. Thus on my Tt02, I was only able to install the driveshaft and the diff ones. 

I think i will follow your advice about spending money in another kit but I don’t know which one. Db01 is not a very old one ?

What about the ta07 or tb evo 7 or trf ?

i read a very good post here about the differences between tt02, tt02d, tt02r and s and in my understanding the tt02r was the most suitable to quickly convert from on road to rally and have a lot of flexibility for the setup.

since it is an old post, the tt02rr is now out. I see each model with pro and cons but what I am looking for is typically a model I can convert from rally to track with a lot of hopups already preinstalled. OR two different model is best ? 

What would you recommend ?

 

[Jonathon Gillham]

1 hour ago, legau said:

I confirm the ball bearings kit is NOT the same up to a certain point. Indeed, the size of the bearings for the wheels are slightly smaller than the one for the TT02B. Thus on my Tt02, I was only able to install the driveshaft and the diff ones. 

I think i will follow your advice about spending money in another kit but I don’t know which one. Db01 is not a very old one ?

What about the ta07 or tb evo 7 or trf ?

i read a very good post here about the differences between tt02, tt02d, tt02r and s and in my understanding the tt02r was the most suitable to quickly convert from on road to rally and have a lot of flexibility for the setup.

since it is an old post, the tt02rr is now out. I see each model with pro and cons but what I am looking for is typically a model I can convert from rally to track with a lot of hopups already preinstalled. OR two different model is best ? 

What would you recommend ?

 

I'm surprised to hear the bearings are different, I thought they used the same hubs and axles. I don't have a TT02 though to compare.

While the TT02S is better with different suspension, the R's are just the base TT02 with some hopups. I'm not a fan of the TT02 other than as a great basher or for the entrt level racing class. 

TRF chassis are amazing and will keep up with the best from other manufacturers in onroad - TRF has given up on offroad so aren't developing the cars. I have the TRF102 and the build quality is amazing, and the car is competive at the club despite me being slow. The TA07MS or TRF419XR or TB Evo 7 would all be fantastic cars, get them all.

I have the TA07 Pro and its taken some hopups to get up to speed in 21.5T stock racing. Out of the box it was awesome to run on asphalt though, it was only at the racetrack where the flaws became apparent. The R is just the Pro with hopups and it doesn't include all the stiffeners. It is much cheaper to buy the R than the Pro and hopups. The biggest thing for me was getting the carbon reinforced and carbon fibre stiffeners and the alloy suspension blocks. The TA07 build was more TRF than TT02, its a much higher quality kit.

There is also the TB range which is the shaft drive version at the same level as the TA cars. The TB05 Pro looks cool with different motor positions. The TB04R is a fully hopped up TB04.

The TA07 and TB05 appear to be different to the earlier TA and TB cars. They haven't been released as kits, rather the base model is the Pro. This comes with TRF dampers but no body. The R is released later with more hopups. The TA07MS has been released now which is basically a TRF car. I expectvthe TB05 will get the R morel, but the TB Evo 7 is basically the MS version so not sure if there will be a TB05MS. The earlier TA and TB cars also had kits which had CVA dampers but were an alternative to the TT car as a starter kit.

No matter how much you spend on a TT02 it won't match a TA or TB or TRF car.

The XV01 is the best rally car, but I don't have one to know anything more about them...

[legau]

very nice to know, thanks!

what would you choose for most of the time playing in the street, may be to try on a track one day? 

A few questions : what does MS means ? TRF ?

what is the difference btw cva shocks and TRF ?

May be a silly question, but for bashing only, is it not overkill choosing an excellent model such as the TRF ? I mean, will it be more difficult to break with all the reinforced parts or due to the performance increase, it will still finish to break hard ? (Anyway the steering will be more precise so it could be more manoeuvrable ?). Just a simple thought  what is the best compromise : upgrading a tt02 or choosing a better model which btw seems to match my expectations in term of parts and performance... but for bashing hum 

 

[TurnipJF]

A TRF, while brilliant for serious racing on a clean and well-prepared track, is overkill for bashing IMO, and will be more prone to drivetrain issues as the gears are exposed so will easily pick up grit, small pebbles, etc.

To me, the best compromise is a TT-02 Type S, which combines the precise and highly adjustable suspension of a TRF car with the simple, tough plastic chassis and sealed drivetrain of a TT-02. It makes a great basher, and is almost on a par with a TB-03 when you take it to the track.

[Jonathon Gillham]

5 hours ago, legau said:

very nice to know, thanks!

what would you choose for most of the time playing in the street, may be to try on a track one day? 

A few questions : what does MS means ? TRF ?

what is the difference btw cva shocks and TRF ?

May be a silly question, but for bashing only, is it not overkill choosing an excellent model such as the TRF ? I mean, will it be more difficult to break with all the reinforced parts or due to the performance increase, it will still finish to break hard ? (Anyway the steering will be more precise so it could be more manoeuvrable ?). Just a simple thought  what is the best compromise : upgrading a tt02 or choosing a better model which btw seems to match my expectations in term of parts and performance... but for bashing hum 

 

I'm not sure what MS stands for but its usually the best version. While the Pro and R usually mean hopups, the MS usually means a far better car. In the case of the TA07MS it has a dual deck carbon chassis, aluminum bulkheads etc which mean its much closer to a TRF car than the TA07 which its based on.

The TRF dampers are aluminium and silky smooth, some of the best around. You can change the pistons, they have threaded bodies to adjust ride height etc. CVA dampers are the standard oil filled dampers you get with kits. Some are pretty good and you can change the pistons for different damping effects, others are basic with fixed pistons.

Yep you wouldn't bash a TRF model. They have a flat deck rather than tub which lets stones in, and an exposed drivetrain. They are also too pretty, you could get one for the shelf.

The TB05Pro has a sealed drivetrain but a flat deck. This should work fine as the drivetrain is sealed and while stones can get in they should go straight out again. If budget allows the TB04R looks cool and has a tub chassis. 

For bashing a TT02 is always the sensible choice,  but who said anyone in this hobby is sensible.

[legau]

Thanks for your replies guys. Since I have now 2 TT02, i will think for the next one. May be another type ;-)

 

[legau]

Hello guys, I would like to upgrade the steering of my tt02b.

i bought the entire steering system for the tt02, tamiya part 54752 and I am super happy with it. However, this kit is not available for the tt02b, I guess because of the turnbuckles length.

well, does it exist such a kit for the tt02b? Or do I have to buy servo saver + steering bridge + steering parts + turnbuckles ? Which gonna be quite expensive compared to the 54752 kit.

or may be the 54752 kit +the turnbuckles ?

what do you think ?

[TurnipJF]

I would go for 54752 and 54539. Then you can have alloy steering and full turnbuckles. 

[legau]

Another silly question, how do you setup your shocks on the tt02b ? What about spacers / springs / inner-middle-outer holes ?

Here is mine on a very hard track :

As you can see, after a jump, the chassis is touching the ground. She is also bouncing on every stone and rocks.

my setting is the following :

- spacers until the dogbones are horizontal. 

- châssis must be parallel to the ground

- I use the standard holes for the shocks.

any recommendation ?

[Juls1]

Firstly if you don’t already have carbon or frp shock towers, they are a good idea, as the stock plastic towers are made out of jelly. 

To run on a track you’ll need to slow the shocks a great deal more than the stock setup, I can’t tell you what exact setup as I wouldn’t bother with the stock shocks trying to make that work. But either way you need some much thicker oil. It’s worth going to a race day and have a feel of the suspension setup of the winning cars and you’ll get a rough idea how much you need to slow down your shocks with thicker oil.

Juls

[legau]

I have indeed frp front shock tower installed on the video. I also have the rear one but not yet installed.

What would you use as shocks other than stock ?

this is an open track so i’m not sure they even have a race or club. 

So I can start by changing the stock oil with more thick oil and see how it goes.

 

[Juls1]

DF03 alloy Damper kit is probably the best option. They are significantly longer than the stock shocks and will help you gain a little more ground clearance without losing any sag. 

I’d try the thicker oil first anyway. 

[Jonathon Gillham]

Thats a pretty decent track for something that is just open to the public!

[nbTMM]

Bounciness is caused by springs too stiff or shocks too soft. Try heavier weight shock oil, 1000cst 
Slapping the chassis on the ground is due to shocks too soft, or not enough ride height. Having the lower arms drooping down a bit is ok - they don't need to be completely straight.

Mounting the shocks to the inner holes on the lower suspension arms will give more range of suspension motion and it will be overall softer. The outer holes will give stiffer suspension and less range of movement.