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legau

Tt02b plasma edge II upgrade ?

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Indeed I use the small ones. I will try these ones, thanks for the suggestion.

ok I understand the droop is almost equal to sag for my car, so I have to decrease the spring pressure and configure everything with battery etc (ready to run) right ? 

So to be sure I clearly understand, I will load my car with battery, « unscrew » all the crowns and rescrew them until 30% of the stroke is inside the shock, or at least 20%, correct ?

 

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Yep, car setup ready to race, reduce the preload until you have about 20-30% sag. Assuming you can still achieve a reasonable ride height. The arms slightly tilted down from level should give about 20-25mm clearance. I think you’ll need those longer ends to achieve both the desirable sag and ride height requirement. 

The sag allows the wheels to drop down into holes and keep the car more level and stable, instead of the whole car falling in the hole if you have no sag. 

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1 hour ago, Juls1 said:

Yep, car setup ready to race, reduce the preload until you have about 20-30% sag. Assuming you can still achieve a reasonable ride height. The arms slightly tilted down from level should give about 20-25mm clearance. I think you’ll need those longer ends to achieve both the desirable sag and ride height requirement. 

The sag allows the wheels to drop down into holes and keep the car more level and stable, instead of the whole car falling in the hole if you have no sag. 

Thanks Juls1, I will try that out and make another video. In the mean time, I think I will change the oil and put the longer ends.

i will keep you posted.

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I would not place too much importance on making the suspension so stiff that it doesn't bottom out when jumping, because you'll probably compromise how it performs over smaller bumps. I don't race, but from a bashing point of view, the chassis hitting the ground when landing big jumps is desirable, as it prevents breaking your suspension.

Your drop test looks good to me. Perhaps the rear shocks could do with slightly thicker oil but I'd drive it how it is first. Then change the oil, drive it again and see what you think.

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3 minutes ago, nbTMM said:

I would not place too much importance on making the suspension so stiff that it doesn't bottom out when jumping, because you'll probably compromise how it performs over smaller bumps. I don't race, but from a bashing point of view, the chassis hitting the ground when landing big jumps is desirable, as it prevents breaking your suspension.

You’re probably (certainly) right on this. I discussed with some enthusiasts at the track and in the shop, they all agree that for a « smaller » car like this, even with good equipment, I will never be able to jump like badword... which is kind of frustrating according to the power of the car she just wants to fly... a lot. They say I have to use the slope for the landing, if there is none, don’t jump! That’s may be common sense but when you see a jump, all you want is... jump! :-)

Anyway, the goal now is to have the best settings it can have for an « all round » type of driving. Something in between track and bashing. 

And may be for this particular track (which is kind of tricky), I will need a Xray xb8e / mugen mbx7r or 8 / TLR or anything really strong and close to competition. I am not yet there (and my wallet neither, even tough all the hop ups are not cheap, but at least I learn the basics right ?)

 

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Looks good to me. For what it's worth, I just upgraded mine to carbon shock towers and here's how I've set it up with stock shocks.

Rear shocks have 800cst oil, stock springs with the largest spring collar/spacer. Mounted to the holes as pictured. X3 must be installed on the shock shaft as per instructions otherwise the piston will crash into the rubber bladder, possibly damaging it over time. Even with it there is plenty of compression.
Droop:

1SRJs5V.jpg

Settled:
hv2bmQd.jpg
Compression:

rrFWrzS.jpg

Front shocks have 1500cst oil, reason being that the suspension arm has much higher leverage on the front shock due to how they are mounted, so much higher shock and spring rates have to be used to realise similar effective rates at the front and rear wheels. Despite this, the stock front springs were still way too stiff, even using the softest combination of mounting holes, so I substituted springs from a TT02 road car. These are significantly softer than the stock TT02B springs and also physically shorter by about 1cm. I stretched the springs to make them a little bit longer, and installed all 3 collars/spacers. The collars are just enough to keep the spring captive (so the spring perch doesn't fall out), they are not providing any preload on the spring. V11 is omitted from the shock shaft to provide maximum compression. This is slightly stiffer than the rear (both shock and spring) and has slightly less suspension travel - should help in making the handling tend towards understeer instead of oversteer, and keeping the nose up higher so when it comes across sticks/rocks/bumps the chassis ends up sliding over them rather than bulldozing them with the nose of the car.
Droop:

gdETOZd.jpg

Settled:
1rdCK8h.jpg
Compression:

UQQw7J4.jpg

Drop test from 1ft/30cm (watch the shock towers / chassis because the shell isn't secured down)


My battery is a 5000mAh 3S pack so it is heavier than average (429g) - the result is my suspension will effectively be a bit softer because it has to deal with more weight. Ride height is about 29mm - you'll probably want a bit lower than this to improve cornering performance and prevent traction rolling. I'm using the inner mounting points for the turnbuckle upper arms as I want to prevent traction rolling as much as possible due to my raised height and increased weight. Shortening the turn buckles and using the outer holes will give camber gain (wheel cambers as it compresses) which will improve cornering grip by keeping the outer tyres flatter with the road when the car body rolls in a corner. 

I haven't had the chance to run it yet but I think this will be a good start for my intentions (30-50km/h bashing over rough ground and grass). On the bench it is miles ahead of the stock configuration (which was laughable). I suspect if anything the first change I'll probably need to make is either to put heavier oil in the rear shocks, and/or move the rear shock lower mounting point to the middle hole and readjust the top hole to achieve the same ride height as now. 

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On 7/25/2019 at 11:56 PM, legau said:

Ok long parts installed, filled the rear with 60wt oil. Here is the result :

https://youtu.be/fycqKIOu3XU

what do you think ?

Looking much better. 

If you find you don’t have enough steering you may need to use a softer front spring or play with the mounting positions. 

Try it out on the track the rear may need to be slowed a touch more yet, but I think your pretty much there. When you drop the car it should compress and then return to its neutral position without any bouncing. 

I think you should see a difference at the track now. 

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21 hours ago, nbTMM said:

Looks good to me. For what it's worth, I just upgraded mine to carbon shock towers and here's how I've set it up with stock shocks.

Rear shocks have 800cst oil, stock springs with the largest spring collar/spacer. Mounted to the holes as pictured. X3 must be installed on the shock shaft as per instructions otherwise the piston will crash into the rubber bladder, possibly damaging it over time. Even with it there is plenty of compression.
Droop:

1SRJs5V.jpg

Settled:
hv2bmQd.jpg
Compression:

rrFWrzS.jpg

Front shocks have 1500cst oil, reason being that the suspension arm has much higher leverage on the front shock due to how they are mounted, so much higher shock and spring rates have to be used to realise similar effective rates at the front and rear wheels. Despite this, the stock front springs were still way too stiff, even using the softest combination of mounting holes, so I substituted springs from a TT02 road car. These are significantly softer than the stock TT02B springs and also physically shorter by about 1cm. I stretched the springs to make them a little bit longer, and installed all 3 collars/spacers. The collars are just enough to keep the spring captive (so the spring perch doesn't fall out), they are not providing any preload on the spring. V11 is omitted from the shock shaft to provide maximum compression. This is slightly stiffer than the rear (both shock and spring) and has slightly less suspension travel - should help in making the handling tend towards understeer instead of oversteer, and keeping the nose up higher so when it comes across sticks/rocks/bumps the chassis ends up sliding over them rather than bulldozing them with the nose of the car.
Droop:

gdETOZd.jpg

Settled:
1rdCK8h.jpg
Compression:

UQQw7J4.jpg

Drop test from 1ft/30cm (watch the shock towers / chassis because the shell isn't secured down)


My battery is a 5000mAh 3S pack so it is heavier than average (429g) - the result is my suspension will effectively be a bit softer because it has to deal with more weight. Ride height is about 29mm - you'll probably want a bit lower than this to improve cornering performance and prevent traction rolling. I'm using the inner mounting points for the turnbuckle upper arms as I want to prevent traction rolling as much as possible due to my raised height and increased weight. Shortening the turn buckles and using the outer holes will give camber gain (wheel cambers as it compresses) which will improve cornering grip by keeping the outer tyres flatter with the road when the car body rolls in a corner. 

I haven't had the chance to run it yet but I think this will be a good start for my intentions (30-50km/h bashing over rough ground and grass). On the bench it is miles ahead of the stock configuration (which was laughable). I suspect if anything the first change I'll probably need to make is either to put heavier oil in the rear shocks, and/or move the rear shock lower mounting point to the middle hole and readjust the top hole to achieve the same ride height as now. 

Thanks for the sharing, really interesting, it gives me some inputs to work later on. 

Your setup seems nice, let me know when you have tested it ;-)

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10 hours ago, Juls1 said:

Looking much better. 

If you find you don’t have enough steering you may need to use a softer front spring or play with the mounting positions. 

Try it out on the track the rear may need to be slowed a touch more yet, but I think your pretty much there. When you drop the car it should compress and then return to its neutral position without any bouncing. 

I think you should see a difference at the track now. 

Steering seems really nice with the hopped up steering compared to earlier so I really have to test it on the track.

when you say slowed a touch more, you mean more preload ? More oil weight ? 

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More oil weight. Preload on rear looks right for that heavy weight spring. 

Front looks a bit firm springs wise, makes it hard to tell if the damping is right. The included springs on those dampers are for df03. Which has totally different suspension to the TT02b.

On the DF03 the front layout is more upright which means the suspension has more leverage over the front shocks, which ultimately means its needs a stronger spring than the very laid down setup on the TT02b. 

For this reason the stock TT02B springs are potentially a better option up front. 

Ive included a pic of a DF03MS for you to see how much different the layout is.

a1516cdb3c5c5e983a4be1aa09b67513.jpg

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On 7/26/2019 at 6:13 AM, nbTMM said:

Looks good to me. For what it's worth, I just upgraded mine to carbon shock towers and here's how I've set it up with stock shocks.

Rear shocks have 800cst oil, stock springs with the largest spring collar/spacer. Mounted to the holes as pictured. X3 must be installed on the shock shaft as per instructions otherwise the piston will crash into the rubber bladder, possibly damaging it over time. Even with it there is plenty of compression.
Droop:

1SRJs5V.jpg

Settled:
hv2bmQd.jpg
Compression:

rrFWrzS.jpg

Front shocks have 1500cst oil, reason being that the suspension arm has much higher leverage on the front shock due to how they are mounted, so much higher shock and spring rates have to be used to realise similar effective rates at the front and rear wheels. Despite this, the stock front springs were still way too stiff, even using the softest combination of mounting holes, so I substituted springs from a TT02 road car. These are significantly softer than the stock TT02B springs and also physically shorter by about 1cm. I stretched the springs to make them a little bit longer, and installed all 3 collars/spacers. The collars are just enough to keep the spring captive (so the spring perch doesn't fall out), they are not providing any preload on the spring. V11 is omitted from the shock shaft to provide maximum compression. This is slightly stiffer than the rear (both shock and spring) and has slightly less suspension travel - should help in making the handling tend towards understeer instead of oversteer, and keeping the nose up higher so when it comes across sticks/rocks/bumps the chassis ends up sliding over them rather than bulldozing them with the nose of the car.
Droop:

gdETOZd.jpg

Settled:
1rdCK8h.jpg
Compression:

UQQw7J4.jpg

Drop test from 1ft/30cm (watch the shock towers / chassis because the shell isn't secured down)


My battery is a 5000mAh 3S pack so it is heavier than average (429g) - the result is my suspension will effectively be a bit softer because it has to deal with more weight. Ride height is about 29mm - you'll probably want a bit lower than this to improve cornering performance and prevent traction rolling. I'm using the inner mounting points for the turnbuckle upper arms as I want to prevent traction rolling as much as possible due to my raised height and increased weight. Shortening the turn buckles and using the outer holes will give camber gain (wheel cambers as it compresses) which will improve cornering grip by keeping the outer tyres flatter with the road when the car body rolls in a corner. 

I haven't had the chance to run it yet but I think this will be a good start for my intentions (30-50km/h bashing over rough ground and grass). On the bench it is miles ahead of the stock configuration (which was laughable). I suspect if anything the first change I'll probably need to make is either to put heavier oil in the rear shocks, and/or move the rear shock lower mounting point to the middle hole and readjust the top hole to achieve the same ride height as now. 

First of all, nice set up! what kind of tires and wheels are those? cheers

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The stock tt02b and also the MS versions are two different animals. 

The stock tt02b has a few issues

1. the rear damper stay has a lot of flex especially when landing even a small jump. This will drive you out of your mind feeling like the rear damping is weak.  

2. the tires are smaller and compress so its low to the ground.

So tuning a stock vs an MS or stock with fiber damper stays and dual blocks is just different.

I recommend getting the damper stays and dual block tires.  The tires will fit the stock wheel so its optional if you want df03 black or white larger wheels.

you get more ground clearance and less bottoming out in the rear due to the flex in the rear damper stay 

the K version of the dual block tires will solve 2 problems.  It has foams so it will not fully compress and it is also a taller tire.

Now you can start tuning your tt02b suspension. 

one thing I noted is that chasing after the leveling of the dogbones at rest is a loosing battle. you can move the lower damper mounting points to the inner hole but you just lost adjustability doing that. At this point its probably better to install the longer eyelets on the aluminum dampers at this point (this is where they shine over the CVA's is in longest possible length). one thing about the aluminum dampers is that it tells you to build the rear dampers with 4 orings inside the damper and 3 in the front.  This compresses the spring.  you will need to decide on the total length you will need.

oring spacers

Rx4 Fx3

Rx3 Fx2

Rx2 Fx1

Rx1 Fx0

or just remove them all together.

 

In order to get more buggy like suspension you will need to utilize the droop on the tt02b which is alot!  if you take a dt03 and a tt02b and have them both sitting with the dogbones level the tto2b will be really close to the ground.  However the tt02b has a ton of possible droop.  you will need to raise it higher than normal as a new baseline. 

Before you go down this path ask yourself what is your goal.

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On 7/25/2019 at 4:15 AM, Juls1 said:

Your droop, it sag, while not specifically the same thing, in the case of the TT02B it essentially is. You want to reduce the spring preload until you reach the desirable 30% sag. Meaning 30% of your shock stroke should be inside the shock when the car is resting and fully laden (battery fitted, body on etc) you probably won’t need quite so much up front but it’s something you can play with. 

If you cannot achieve that sag without the spring becoming loose on the body you’ll need to use a softer spring, like the stock one. 

As for longer eyelets you might already be using them. But from the video it looked like you where not. Check the picture I’ve uploaded. 

D50DA534-B6FB-4B3C-901C-33B301D47BB2.thumb.jpeg.ad3355c19e32be6b1fb30cd6f9232de6.jpeg

With the newest tt02b/df03 aluminum damper set 54993 the stock tt02b springs are actually harder. not sure how it is with older damper kits.  Just thought i would put that information out there.

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I decided to install my aluminum dampers.  they just work better than stock CVA's on the tt02b only.  Different story with 2wd buggies and I cover this in the buggy damper thread on page 6.

I built the dampers per the dt02 ms instructions rather than use the included instructions.  However I used 3 hole front and 2 hole rear.  I used the green 500cst oil from the kit.

the included instructions have you put FOUR black washers inside the rear damper and THREE in the front.  This limits the length of the damper....it also limits the droop....and also makes the dampers at full extend just sitting still and even after full compression goes back to full extend.  I used 2 orings inside the rear only and zero in the front per the dt02 ms instructions.  It should behave like a buggy now.  it sits at 25mil but I believe most of that is because of the dual block tires (probably why Tamiya included them in the MS edition).

the front dampers I adjusted the collar until the springs were just snug and not tight (basically no preload)

the rears I did the same. however I adjusted the height until the dogbone angle matched the front both for static, drop test, and also full compression on all 4 wheel test.

the fronts will not smack the ground with the drop test and neither will the rear using the dual block tires.  You can fit the dual blocks on the stock wheels or you can do what I did and use the df03 black wheels that are $6.00 a pair on tamiyausa right now.

the carbon damper stays will be next.  there is nothing wrong with the front plastic damper stay as it is pretty stiff.  the rear damper stay however is way too flexible. I anticipate readjusting the rear dampers when they arrive but that's pretty much it.

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