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Payneyboy

Help and Advice - Vintage Tamiya Collection

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Hi all,

Looking for help and advice with what to do with my late fathers collection of Tamiya.  He passed away over 10 yrs ago and now it's time.  I would love to work on these myself but after 10 yrs I haven't had time so not likely to anytime soon. 

Great memories of us racing them back in in the 80s, infact still have the car that I came 4th in the 'Expert' final of the British Tamiya championship in '86 in Northampton.

Collection includes cars as shown, boxes of original spare parts, new acoms controller, part built chassis's....anyway take a look at photos and any help advice would be most welcome.  I need to do the collection justice. 

Appreciated

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It can’t have been easy writing that @Payneyboy

And I think you’ll find a wave of appreciation / sympathy from everyone here re what you’re trying to do - not least because most of us were introduced to the hobby back in the day by Dads just like yours.

My first build with my Dad was a 78 Rough Rider - followed by a ham fisted first solo with a Super Champ in 82. We then went backward + forward in kits / years until late 1985. 

I’m not sure what you think would help best ? but if you’re looking for good homes with fellow collectors who’ll look after what you / your Dad did this is def the right place.

The same holds true if you’re really looking for inspiration to get back into things - even if that means waiting for time you currently don’t have.

Either way please don’t hesitate to PM me sir.

I’ll happily make you a good offer on some of your collection or just swap stories that might make you want to keep it 👍

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If you decide to sell, I would be interested in the Ford Ranger/box/manual B)

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Where abouts are you? 

If your local to me id be happy to help you go through it so you know what you have, what goes with what and you could work out your options. If your not near me, im sure someone else near you would do the same.

 

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I'm across the Pond, but just wanted to say that you have a wonderful collection and thank you for sharing your story. 

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I would get a little bookshelf and display them.  

They are old, but pretty enough (at least to me).  Parts can go into a box and put away.  Many of us return to it when the children are old enough to play with them, some as little as 4.  If not, you might miss them when you retire decades later.  You could get the same vehicles (except for the Ford and Sand Rover), but re-made ones are not exactly the same.  Tamiya improved a little, so they are like 98% the same.  In case of Sand Rover, an entirely different DT02 chassis was used, and the shell was altered to fit.  So yeah, what you have are a real nice time capsule. I'd put them in a display case.   

 

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11 minutes ago, Juggular said:

I would get a little bookshelf and display them.  

They are old, but pretty enough (at least to me).  Parts can go into a box and put away.  Many of us return to it when the children are old enough to play with them, some as little as 4.  If not, you might miss them when you retire decades later.  You could get the same vehicles (except for the Ford and Sand Rover), but re-made ones are not exactly the same.  Tamiya improved a little, so they are like 98% the same.  In case of Sand Rover, an entirely different DT02 chassis was used, and the shell was altered to fit.  So yeah, what you have are a real nice time capsule. I'd put them in a display case.   

 

That's just what I was thinking. This collection is irreplaceable. Sure, if you wanted to "get back into it" later, you could seek out and find the same models, but it wouldn't be cheap, and it wouldn't be these. If I had my old RC stuff from when I was young, or any of the models that my dad and I built together (and he's still with us), I wouldn't part with them for the world.

A nice glass display case, some light cleaning, and a careful arrangement are what's called for here, I think.

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I lost my dad years ago as well.  Me and my dad bonded over playing golf and I regret letting go of his clubs.  Every so often I wish I had one of his drivers to go out and hit a ball with.

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A fabulous collection , they all look complete down to the last details . Your Dad wasn't short of modelling skills and he had great taste .

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Hi Payneyboy - as other people have said, you've got some classic and iconic earlier Tamiya models there, never mind all the associated memories those particular examples inspire...

I would consider choosing one of each example (definitely keep the HiLux and the Ranger, as those are the most rare), and putting them in a display case as has already been suggested - Ikea have a good range of glass display cabinets from inexpensive up to some pretty funky retro metal ones - as an example I chose their tall/narrow three shelf Fabrikor for my "Tamiya Towers":

i-gTb55dD-XL.jpg

...but they also do a shorter/wider one that might well offer enough room for six models - two on each shelf?

 

As for the rest of the parts and part-assembled models... looks like you have a bunch of original new-in-packet spares there, which ought to fetch good money on ebay (depending on what they are of course), and people are always on the look out for used SRB chassis spares, so the broken/part assembled Rough Riders could easily be split etc.

If that all sounds a bit daunting, then I'd take up the couple of offers already from club members to help you sort through stuff - listing so many items on eBay (or the for sale section here of course) is time consuming, but I think it would pay dividends.

If it were me, I'd keep one of each example - the Ranger, Rough Rider, Sand Scorcher, Hilux and Sand Rover - get them running again (with the help of a club member or member/s) - they don't need to be fully restored, just repaired and working again using the parts you clearly have plenty of, to make sure that if you (or your kids) ever want to run them again, they are in working order -  and then sell the rest of the new-old-stock parts and spares/duplicate models as projects to get some money (more then enough money I'm sure!) to pay for a nice cabinet to keep them all in?

Best of luck with whatever you choose to do!

Jenny x

ps. It might be sacrilege to some I know, but personally speaking, if you don't intent to run them any time soon (although I feel that once you start to get them working again you might well want to keep at least two of them ready to go ;o) - then you could sell the majority of the the old radio gear too (again, collector/restorers like to have period Acoms stuff), and when the time comes, just fit modern 2.4Ghz Transmitters and Receivers (simple 2-channel Flysky sets are less than £30 on ebay) to those models you do decide to run in future?

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I think it's fair to say every collector here would be interested in buying at least something from this collection. Because these items are 100% original/vintage. But if you're sentimental about it and you think you might regret it later, don't make the mistake of selling any of it. It's a truly wonderful early Tamiya collection: 1979-1982

If you think you'll enjoy restoring these cars with 100% original parts, one day in future (perhaps later in life?), don't make the mistake of selling the spare parts either. There are whole threads on this forum, about regretful sales or lost items. In collecting terms, your father's collection is first-rate gold, quite frankly. And vintage original spare parts will only become rarer (and probably more valuable), in the decades ahead.

On the other hand, if you're certain you won't regret it later - sell, but note you will get better prices if you sell items individually. That's the most important tip I can give, if you need the money. And I say that as someone who would love to buy it all as a bulk bargain, just like anybody here would. But the dreams of the buyer and the seller ... are forever, different dreams :P  This is the tragedy of vintage Tamiya collecting :D

10 hours ago, Payneyboy said:

infact still have the car that I came 4th in the 'Expert' final of the British Tamiya championship in '86 in Northampton. 

Incidentally, which car was that? Is it in the photos?

6 hours ago, Juggular said:

re-made ones are not exactly the same.  Tamiya improved a little, so they are like 98% the same.  In case of Sand Rover, an entirely different DT02 chassis was used, and the shell was altered to fit.

Sorry (here I go again @Juggular :D forgive me, I can't control my fingers on the keyboard...) - just to add - also the body of the remake Sand Scorcher uses the Monster Beetle body mold, which is entirely different to the original Sand Scorcher. (Original Sand Scorcher mold may not even exist at Tamiya anymore, as they have not seemingly used it since the Monster Beetle was created). And there are a myriad other tiny reasons why the remake kits (Sand Scorcher and Buggy Champ) are around $300-$500ea, while original kits (Sand Scorcher and Rough Rider) still fetch $1200-$2000ea

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Seriously, Mr. Hibernaculum, you got me studying stuff like this:

https://tamiyabase.com/articles/52-things-to-know/161-a-quick-guide-to-vintage-vs-reissue-tamiya-r-c-kits (and who do I come across in that article?)  

I got the sense that the mold used to make the Sand Scorcher's body was altered to make Monster Beetle body.  I think the front mounting holes are like 1cm different?  I don't have MB, so I cannot compare.  If they were to use a single mold to make both (which would be economical), did they use some kind of slide-mold to change the location of mounting holes? (Or did they change the mounting position of the re-made MB?)

At any rate, the new fenders are narrower.  I suppose MB being more likely roll around, they figured wider fenders are a liability.  

Pr8hNn7.jpg

 

Vintage Sand Rover isn't really suited for sand, because of exposed gears.  New DT02 is a whole lot better runner. (with some exaggeration, it's like comparing a horse-buggy and a dune-buggy.)

But in order to fit it to the DT02 chassis, Tamiya made 4 holes to the body, ruining the look for many vintage lovers.  I like the new chassis, just that I wish it didn't stick out as much.  Give us a cooler for beers in the back, so it'd cover the back... (wait, that's a good idea. I wonder if I could fabricate one--kinda like 58044 Pajero)

a7JzYwE.jpg

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TC member @Wild-o-boa did a fantastic job giving it a 4 wheel independent suspension!  

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=67104&id=1163

 

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@Hibernaculum @Juggular no wish to hijack this thread but I thought the original Sand Scorcher molds were lost in a Tamiya fire around 84 ?

And the Monster Beetle was itself the first re re - using schematics vs castings ?

If my memory holds true, that’s why the original MB shell is v different if you get into the details.

And why the re re Scorcher - which @Hibernaculum is right as based on the MB - is very different from the original.

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Your old man rue had a keen eye for great and classic cars !

Some nice old school cars there as “H” said every collector here would be interested in at least one of those models , just shows you what a nice slice of history you have there .

They would look great rebuilt and on display in honour of you late father and you would get that warm fuzzy feeling every time you walked past them , time what is time we all have our own version of time and how much we have - 30 minutes to 1 hour spent on these over time and you would have a great collection to display .

We can all find time for things we truly believe in and enjoy .

If it were me and those were my late fathers , it’s not rocket science to see he loved his hobby - I would keep them display them guaranteed one day you would regret selling them .

 

Thanks for sharing !

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8 hours ago, Juggular said:

and who do I come across in that article?

:D Yeah, that's perhaps an earlier version of it (I ended up tweaking the article over time, and adding more to it (I'm terrible that way!) - most current is always here)

8 hours ago, Juggular said:

I got the sense that the mold used to make the Sand Scorcher's body was altered to make Monster Beetle body.

 

8 hours ago, SuperChamp82 said:

no wish to hijack this thread but I thought the original Sand Scorcher molds were lost in a Tamiya fire around 84 ?

Unsure which of these is the reality, but certainly the original mold for the Sand Scorcher body has never been used since the original Sand Scorcher ended production. The body used from the Monster Beetle (1986) onward, has molded door handles (instead of separate handles you attach), no holes in roof, no holes for rear vision mirrors, etc. And even beyond that, obviously later bodies came in different colours and have different stamped writing on them.

There is also an official part-answer to how much the remake Sand Scorcher differs from the original. In an interview some years ago with Evo magazine for an article about the 1:1 Sand Scorcher, Fumito Taki (original Sand Scorcher designer) said:

"We never kept the original molds and tooling."

"I had to redesign it from the original in our museum! Measuring it and using CAD, I did it in three weeks. I designed the original model using pen and paper."

He is most likely referring predominantly to the chassis here.

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20 hours ago, SuperChamp82 said:

I thought the original Sand Scorcher molds were lost in a Tamiya fire around 84 ?

And the Monster Beetle was itself the first re re - using schematics vs castings ?

 

12 hours ago, Hibernaculum said:

In an interview some years ago with Evo magazine for an article about the 1:1 Sand Scorcher, Fumito Taki (original Sand Scorcher designer) said:

"We never kept the original molds and tooling."

"I had to redesign it from the original in our museum! Measuring it and using CAD, I did it in three weeks. I designed the original model using pen and paper."

He is most likely referring predominantly to the chassis here.

I think you are right, @SuperChamp82!

It was a generalization on my part, because Tamiya often "erases" the old markings and cover it with a new one like below.  This 1977 mold survived, as with many others, but it seems like Sand Scorcher wasn't one of them.  This looks like a copper tag they soldered on top of the mold, to cover up the old one.  The tag didn't stick well around the "c" part.   

ccoxqha.jpg

You see the similar add-on-tag in the 2010 Sand Scorcher. 

It says 1986, the year of Monster Beetle.  Not 1979 (which was the year of Sand Scorcher).  So the tag is saying that it's from MB.  

7Q7UJRl.jpg

The mold for the Monster Beetle body was changed 3 times.  Monster Beetle, Blitzer Beetle, new Sand Scorcher, and Monster Beetle again.  (Blitzer beetle didn't change much, but at least the tag has "0979040-02" written on it, noting it's a 2nd use of the MB body.  2010 Sand Scorcher has "0979040-03" on it, meaning the 3rd version.  I wonder if 2015 version would say "0979040-04" on it?  (Why two digits? Version 1-9 wouldn't be enough? Is Tamiya planning to go up to "99?")  

At any rate, the initial Sand Scorcher's tag is different from all the reincarnations of the Monster Beetle.  

5P406eM.jpg

I took below photo just now.  It's still fuzzy (because I refuse to take it out of the plastic bag until I paint). 

But it is the same Monster Beetle mold.  You can barely make out the ejector pin mark on the right of "A", and the long scratch on to the left of T. 

7KKONRS.jpg

z2KbG7u.jpg

They moved the front mounting hole.  

esxWwYK.jpg

Side mounting points were filled as well.  But dimpled to mark the location to remake MB in the future -- which did happen in 2015.  

nJJ7hDn.jpg

As a result of all the remakes, 2015 MB body is the holey-ist of them all.  Two holes for the front, two for the sides, and two on the back of the roof.  Tamiya is notorious for re-using the same mold.   

In hind sight, had it not been destroyed, Monster Beetle chassis might have been made to use the same mounting points as the Sand Scorcher, and Monster Beetle wouldn't be so holey.  

1URWy7C.jpg

 

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Just to add @Juggular - the fact that Tamiya labelled the original body "VW Buggy" has always made me think they literally had no name chosen for Sand Scorcher, when the mold was created. I guess "VW Buggy" was the working title.

Just another charming aspect of the early days of Tamiya RC which, despite the remarkable tooling, tolerances and precision of the product you were buying, were in some ways a bit "let's make it up as we go along" - hence also, how so many of the early kits underwent variations during their production. A phenomenon which was to disappear in later years.

There are countless examples of this sort of thing, when you go looking.

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On 7/12/2019 at 4:32 PM, SuperChamp82 said:

It can’t have been easy writing that @Payneyboy

And I think you’ll find a wave of appreciation / sympathy from everyone here re what you’re trying to do - not least because most of us were introduced to the hobby back in the day by Dads just like yours.

My first build with my Dad was a 78 Rough Rider - followed by a ham fisted first solo with a Super Champ in 82. We then went backward + forward in kits / years until late 1985. 

I’m not sure what you think would help best ? but if you’re looking for good homes with fellow collectors who’ll look after what you / your Dad did this is def the right place.

The same holds true if you’re really looking for inspiration to get back into things - even if that means waiting for time you currently don’t have.

Either way please don’t hesitate to PM me sir.

I’ll happily make you a good offer on some of your collection or just swap stories that might make you want to keep it 👍

Thanks for your reply.  Help and advice has been great.  Need to reflect and give it a little time I think before deciding what to do.  I'll give you a shout when I have decided.  I don't think my wife would like what I' thinking!  For info I have found also a beaten up main box lid for a Superchamp also!

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I have a lot of fond memories of building models with my father, so its alway a dificult desicion to have to make. The first car we built together was a Tamiya frog..

As has been said by SuperChamp and others, we are all enthusiasts here and we all have fond childhood memories of building kits with our dads. Do you have children of your own that you could get involved and pass the hobby onto? Perhaps make the collection a bit smaller and restore a couple of them to shelf queen status so you can display them as a reminder of your dads passion.

If you do decide you want to sell the collection, i would be interested in making an offer on the whole lot.

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