TA06 - First touring car build and first time racing

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

@HaCo81 That looks great! What's your setup? Are you running a shorty battery? Tyres? Diff oil? Really keen to learn from your setup. 

[HaCo81 20]

Thanks! I didn't have a lot of time to read through the posts, and or test the car. It was a great opportunity yesterday.

The setup of the car:

• Turnigy Nano Ultimate 4600 Shorty
• Worn Tamiya A-types all around0
• 17.5T sensored brushless motor

Although the setup is the same from the previous video, the car handles a lot better especially under braking. The combination tyres/surface worked a lot better then in the first video (for the obvious reason a parking lot is dirty, worn out asphalt, ...).

I'm not a setup expert, but the combo tyres/surface should be right to start with.

I ran the normal TA06 in Tamiya Cup for 3 years (I think), and finding the right setup for it was always hard. What really helped for me was replacing the suspension arms with the ones from TRF418 (#54569). There is way too much choise for the bottom shock position in the original ones. If you consider replacing these don't forget the use the appropriate stabilizers (you have some installed, right?). But still, I think the TA06 has narrower correct setup window, than the TA07 has, which I run now.

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

The club has moved indoors onto a tight carpet track for the season. Going to give it a go on saturday hopefully. 

After some advice from @El Dougo I have turned the motor timing up to just over 40 deg from the stock 30. Also he suggested on a tight track i might want a lower gear than the 4.4 i was running outside; something around 6. I tried my spare 28t pinion but it doesn't reach my 68t 48dp spur. Did some sums and fitted the kit 0.6mod 68t spur (much bigger than the 48dp 68t) and kit 23t pinion for a gearing of 6.4. Gave it a quick run and it just seems slow! Saw a cheap 26t 0.6mod pinion on ebay so ordered that which will give me about 5.9.

Also got some 2million cst diff oil ordered for the front diff to stiffen it up from the current 300k oil. Otherwise i will be keeping the setup the same apart from running either my full size square pack or my shorty at the front of the battery bay instead of rear. 

One other thing i might have got to the bottom off is steering setup. Being new to 2.4ghz i got a bit lost with options making the car feel really twitchy. I was trying to make it slower acting just off centre and kept reducing the expo to calm it down, to no avail. All it did is make the steering massively non-linear and hard to judge. I have now knocked the expo back to just - 16, but massively reduced the end points and rate. I have played around trading off end point vs rate and ended up with really calm, smooth steering with end points around 60% and the rate dialled back to 55. Looking forward to the car feeling much less edgy! 

Another interesting development is that the club have opened up the Iconic stock class rules to a full Tamiya class. Basically any non-TRF chassis (of which my TA06 is of course one) using the Iconic stock rules (open tyres, iconic 17t brushed motor, scale body only) and you are in. I ordered this body today so i might be switching classes later in the winter.... 

 

[Butler 338]

Where did you get that body from? Its surely too rare to race? I assume your going to put it on a FWD chassis.

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

1 hour ago, Butler said:

Where did you get that body from? Its surely too rare to race? I assume your going to put it on a FWD chassis.

L and L models. Control Freax have just done a repro which is what i have bought. No more than a scale toiring car shell so i am using it. Would be nice to put it on FWD but i can't find an FF02 to put it on and it doesn't fit an ff03 or ff01 due to short overhang apparently. 

[HaCo81 20]

Great body!!!

I have an original Clio waiting on the bench here for my FF01.

Are you sure this Peugeot doesn’t fit an FF01? 

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

37 minutes ago, HaCo81 said:

Great body!!!

I have an original Clio waiting on the bench here for my FF01.

Are you sure this Peugeot doesn’t fit an FF01? 

Not sure, no, but @Truck Norris did a shell and his wouldn't fit on an FF03 and the FF04 he used needed serious shortening (like no bumper) so i can't imagine it would fit an FF01. Problem is they are such a rare shell there isn't much experience around of fitting them to other things. For now i am happy to stick it on my TA06, but i would kinda like a FWD to see how it is. Been wondering about getting an XV01 Pro TC and ditching the belt and rear drivetrain but funds don't allow right now. 

[Truck Norris 2237]

I wouldn't say serious shortening, it was just removing the bumper. I believe the reason Tamiya state it won't fit the FF03 is due to the front body mount positions. The FF04 uses the standard TT-0x front position mounts like the XV01.

The box for the 50809 Body Parts Set says it's compatible with FF01, FF02, TA02, TA03R and TL-01.

An issue with fitting it to anything other than an FF02 (not sure about FF01) is that the rear mounts don't align with the drilled holes in the roof, so the manual advises making additional holes in the rear window. It says "Make holes (6mm) when attaching on 4WD chassis".

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

11 minutes ago, Truck Norris said:

I wouldn't say serious shortening, it was just removing the bumper. I believe the reason Tamiya state it won't fit the FF03 is due to the front body mount positions. The FF04 uses the standard TT-0x front position mounts like the XV01.

The box for the 50809 Body Parts Set says it's compatible with FF01, FF02, TA02, TA03R and TL-01.

An issue with fitting it to anything other than an FF02 (not sure about FF01) is that the rear mounts don't align with the drilled holes in the roof, so the manual advises making additional holes in the rear window. It says "Make holes (6mm) when attaching on 4WD chassis".

Interesting. The repro doesn't have holes drilled and my TA06 has bumper body mounts. Be interesting to see if it works ok. Might pick up an ff03 after all! 

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

Tonight...... We raced! 

Battle scars! Indoor is tight and hectic and i hit barriers soooo much, but it was ace. I think i have answered the question about changing class: There is no way i am running my 306 with those barriers! Got a load of help from a pit buddy, and some tyre sauce, and got better. Turns out despite the technical track everyone still runs around 4.5 gearing just like outside. Also had to massively increase my steering throw due to tightness of the turns. Feels like this needs a lot more work and possibly a better steering servo but i got it useable. 

Chased the setup a little, and the additive helped loads. All over the rears, 1/2 width front. Ended going down to yellow front springs from blue, and added back the rear anyi roll bar in the softest option as i was suffering from high speed on throttle understeer. Definitely helped. For the last race i reduced the front bar from stiffest to medium and full width additive on the fronts and that was too much. Back to being a little bit of a handful, but still managed to do almost exactly the same time and number of laps as what felt like my best heat. First three heats i got 1 lap total and a second per lap average quicker per heat which was nice. 

Counter-intuitively i was advised to ditch all the drag brake and it was great. Soooo much smoother, and turning in just scrubs speed, and car much more settled. Who knew? 

Going to stick with the TC and get my own additive. Definitely need some more tweaking to my Rx and ESC settings. 

Was great watching the good guy. Aside from good driving their cars just seem so planted and consistent. The GT10 class were insanely fast and looked so cool. There were loads of M07s too which looked cool and seemed to have much more room! 

[WillyChang 1814]

your race shell would give downforce... 306 wouldn't  

If you wanna race a realistic looking brick, go Mini.

[TurnipJF 9192]

On 10/3/2019 at 7:58 PM, Truck Norris said:

I wouldn't say serious shortening, it was just removing the bumper. I believe the reason Tamiya state it won't fit the FF03 is due to the front body mount positions. The FF04 uses the standard TT-0x front position mounts like the XV01.

The box for the 50809 Body Parts Set says it's compatible with FF01, FF02, TA02, TA03R and TL-01.

The FF-03 has the option of mounting the front body posts right at the front or in the usual TT-0X position near the font axle shared with the majority of Tamiya TCs, so I suspect there is more to it than body post position.

Could it simply be that the instructions predate the release of the FF-03?

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

TA06 has been laid up for a dew weeks whilst i have faffed with my 306 project and also not had time to get to club nights. I have succumbed to HopUpitis by tagging bits onto other orders 'to use the postage'. 

As mentioned above, i got a better, low profile servo and a kimbrough medium servo saver, and made up to new steering arms with hard connectors to try and remove as much slop as possible. 

I also read on thercracer about them running wide blocks at the front and narrow rear on their 419s to settle them down. I had the opposite because i had picked up cheap blocks on rcmart. With another rcmart order i got another cheap 1F wide block and switch it to the FR position i stead of the separate blocks. The beauty of the TA06 short front belt is that it clears a full width block with no hacks. 

So, i now have 1F / 1F front and with some 4mm thick hexes it just squeezes unser 190mm wide. At the rear i switched the 1D from the front of the car to the RR position and split 1XB blocks to maintain the 3 deg toe in but again with 4mm hexes to narrow it down. In theory narrower rear track should give the rear end a little more grip. 

Whilst i was on rcmart, i couldn't resist cheap pointless upgrades - in this case TRF419 arms and rear uprights. They aren't very expensive to be fair (about 15 quid all in) are reinforced plastic so stiffer than kit parts, and latest geometry. Apparently the ta06 sway bar kit isn't supposed to fit these. You are supposed to get the TRF418 kit, but i can't see why as it installed with no problems at all. 

Nothing like spending money on parts when really you just need practice! 

Final piece of the puzzle is dampers. I needed the cvas for my TL01 so that was an excuse to upgrade here. These are 55mm yeah racing shocks. Seem pretty nice, lots of ti coating, and threaded collars make setting ride height super easy. Built them with 3 hole pistons, 500wt front, 400 rear like my other shocks. Didn't want to mess with the tapered hole pistons that comes with them (yet). Stuck with tamiya springs because i know them and apparently the yeah racing ones you get are a bit variable. 

So, all looking pretty racey now. Found there is a permant track at Force Raceway about an hour from me which has regular open practice and tune up sessions. I can see me doing a couple of those before racing again. Now i think i just need driving time and some space away drom racing to get a dialed base setup so i am not chasing my tail the whole time on club nights. 

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

Raced again! Definite improvement with the car. I got TRF419 arms and rear uprights on it and yeah racing alloy shocks. Also had my own tyre sauce for the first time which helped massively. Car is way more settled. Still not perfect but definitely very dtiveable. Just need to work on my driving now! 

[graemevw 823]

Still need to get along to this! I built the car, have everything ready, just not managed to get to a meet!

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

2 hours ago, graemevw said:

Still need to get along to this! I built the car, have everything ready, just not managed to get to a meet!

17.5 touring is hectic! They run a tamiya class for scale shells and 17t brushed with 1060 esc if you want to try something a bit less fast

[graemevw 823]

1 hour ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

17.5 touring is hectic! They run a tamiya class for scale shells and 17t brushed with 1060 esc if you want to try something a bit less fast

I do have a scale shell, but not one id want to race with! 17t brushed, so i could chuck my dyna tech 01r in it, its got a 17t rotor.

 

Its all set up for 17.5t brushless though so ill probably just dive into that. Im not bothered about hectic, im not even bothered about laps or winning. Just want to drive it on track.

All im bothered about is being so useless i create too much work for the marshals 😂

Ive not driven the car at all yet, and ive never really driven in road. Im sure it will be fine though.

Cant remember what tyres input on it, id have to check, but they were ment to be right for the outdoor track. I assume id need different tyres for indoor?

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

2 hours ago, graemevw said:

I do have a scale shell, but not one id want to race with! 17t brushed, so i could chuck my dyna tech 01r in it, its got a 17t rotor.

 

Its all set up for 17.5t brushless though so ill probably just dive into that. Im not bothered about hectic, im not even bothered about laps or winning. Just want to drive it on track.

All im bothered about is being so useless i create too much work for the marshals 😂

Ive not driven the car at all yet, and ive never really driven in road. Im sure it will be fine though.

Cant remember what tyres input on it, id have to check, but they were ment to be right for the outdoor track. I assume id need different tyres for indoor?

Its a steep learning curve but it's fun and the club is pretty friendly. If you have peoper race wheels and tyres like sorex or sweep just use those inside too. I do with my Sorex 28s. Main thing you need is tyre additive, but go down and have a go and ask to use someone elses for the first week. Get your car set up at 5mm ride height, 5mm droop front, 4mm rear, 1-2 deg camber all round, 2-3 rear toe in, 1-2 deg front toe out. I just got a ride hieght gauge, but i have been using measured blocks i have lying around too, like lego bricks. In fact i still use the lego bricks to set droop 👍

[graemevw 823]

31 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Its a steep learning curve but it's fun and the club is pretty friendly. If you have peoper race wheels and tyres like sorex or sweep just use those inside too. I do with my Sorex 28s. Main thing you need is tyre additive, but go down and have a go and ask to use someone elses for the first week. Get your car set up at 5mm ride height, 5mm droop front, 4mm rear, 1-2 deg camber all round, 2-3 rear toe in, 1-2 deg front toe out. I just got a ride hieght gauge, but i have been using measured blocks i have lying around too, like lego bricks. In fact i still use the lego bricks to set droop 👍

Thats not far off how its set up iirc.

Cant for the life of me remember what tyres are on it, but they were recomended by the shop and they know the track.

The car is boxed up right now while i restore a lp500s. Ill dig it out, check it over and get down there in a week or two.

[graemevw 823]

Just checked, they are rush, 32.

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

9 hours ago, graemevw said:

Just checked, they are rush, 32.

They will be fine. If the shop knows the track then all good. Like i say, biggest thing after gettibg the car setup somewhere near is additive. The cars seems massivly oversteery otherwise, so additive all other the rears, and on just a band on the inside of the fronts. After its practice. I am goibg to try and get to Force up and Wakefield for a test and tune session where i can just drive for hours and get better! 

[graemevw 823]

1 hour ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

They will be fine. If the shop knows the track then all good. Like i say, biggest thing after gettibg the car setup somewhere near is additive. The cars seems massivly oversteery otherwise, so additive all other the rears, and on just a band on the inside of the fronts. After its practice. I am goibg to try and get to Force up and Wakefield for a test and tune session where i can just drive for hours and get better! 

That sounds like a good idea. Might look Force up

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

Got some reinforced A parts for christmas to round out the reinforced plastics. I had thought when i bought them they would just be pieces that link the transmission to the battery case, but it's loads of bits! The links, the upper and lower bulkheads, front shock tower mount. Took some doing to pull everything apart to install them.... 

These are so much stiffer than the basic plastic parts. It's the whole section around the diffs and then stabilising them to the tub. Also makes the shock towers and sway bar mounts much more solid. Given these parts cost £6.50 I would say after bearings and aluminium suspension blocks this is the best thing you can do to a basic a TA06. Get it before you build the kit. 

Looking forward to racing it again. Its pretty much R spec now. 

[svenb 3775]

Keep an eye out for the aluminium centre pulley housing and your just about R'd up👍

[ThunderDragonCy 7877]

7 hours ago, svenb said:

Keep an eye out for the aluminium centre pulley housing and your just about R'd up👍

Yeah, i was quite keen on one of those as its one of the few plastics that aren't available reinforced, but the aluminium one was only shipped in kits. It was never a 5XXXX number hop up. I haven't seen one yet. There are a few other slight differences as i am running 55mm shocks and reinforced plastic shock towers rather than 50mm shocks and the later carbon towers of the -R. I didn't want the expense of the towers and the shocks all at once and i already had the reinforced towers on the car. Mine also has TRF419 suspension rather than 418, and still running rear dogbones as i can't see the point of going to unis at the rear when these are so smooth.