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CC-02 Cross Country chassis

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Given the current relationship with Toyota (rally Yaris, TS050, Supra), could we see their HiLux- based Dakar entry on the CC-02?

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2 hours ago, Badcrumble said:

Given the current relationship with Toyota (rally Yaris, TS050, Supra), could we see their HiLux- based Dakar entry on the CC-02?

So.....do you think they would reuse the lexan hilux extra cab body with different stickers?

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24 minutes ago, taffer said:

So.....do you think they would reuse the lexan hilux extra cab body with different stickers?

I’d hope for a bespoke body for this one

03627A43-84BA-4797-8D45-17612713A53C.jpg

I think the sills extend deeper and the bumpers are different to the standard model. And there’s the big bash guard thingie (technical term).

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Lexan schmexan...

I do find it a little ironic that in the scale scene these days, more and more companies (like Knight Customs) on shapeways etc. are making more and more 'hard' parts to disguise and replace the flimsy panels you get with lexan shells!

With very few exceptions (I'm thinking the Tamiya Porsche 959, and most of that is stickers of course!) to me Lexan is the equivalent of NASCAR - a silhouette body over a chassis built for racing...

There is no doubt that if you're racing your RC cars, then a 'representative' shell is fair enough - it keeps the weight down, and is easy to sticker and repair... but for the scale driving (trail and rock-crawling particularly), then hard bodies offer not only far more realistic detailing, but are far easier and more rewarding to customise too.

I do hope Tamiya fully exploit their old resin/ABS body moulds with this new release... and make some new ones too!

Jenny x

 

 

 

 

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Now knowing that the "Full Ball Bearing Set" for the CC-02 (# 54910) will retail for about EUR 25.00, and that the kit itself ((# 58675) is announced with a street price of EUR 220.00, I feel the urge to speculate a little more about what to expect. And I think portals are very unlikely, at least as a standard feature.

Why? Well, Tamiya's 630 ball bearing set for the G6-01TR and GF-01TR is priced at EUR 10,00. That's for 8 bearings, so the G6-01TR requires 3 sets and the GF-01TR requires 2 sets.  So, portals for the CC-02 would most likely require 2 sets too (16 pcs. 630 bearings or similar). In other words, just the 630 bearings alone would be about EUR 20,00. As the CC-02 most likely will require roughly the similar quantity of bearings as the CC-01, it would leave only EUR 5.00 for all the other bearings plus additional bearings required for the portals in the EUR 25.00 "Full Ball Bearing Set". One may argue that the CC-02 kit may come with some ball bearings included, but as the CC-02 kit isn't significantly more expensive than the "average"  (ball bearing-less) CC-01 kit (topic covered earlier in this thread), I consider it very unlikely that enough ball bearings are included in the CC-02 kit to leave only the EUR 5.00 cost for all missing ball bearings if the "Full Ball Bearing Set" would include ball bearings for portals too. And calling it "Full Ball Bearing Set" without including ball bearings for the hypothetical portals, would defy logic. 

Only time will tell, but all this considered, I can't possibly imagine that the CC-02 kit comes with portals as a standard feature. As an option maybe.....

 

 

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4 hours ago, Mokei Kagaku said:

Now knowing that the "Full Ball Bearing Set" for the CC-02 (# 54910) will retail for about EUR 25.00, and that the kit itself ((# 58675) is announced with a street price of EUR 220.00, I feel the urge to speculate a little more about what to expect. And I think portals are very unlikely, at least as a standard feature.

Why? Well, Tamiya's 630 ball bearings set for the G6-01TR and GF-01TR is priced at EUR 10,00. That's for 8 bearings, so the G6-01TR requires 3 sets and the FG-01TR requires 2 sets.  So, portals for the CC-02 would most likely require 2 sets too (16 pcs. 630 bearings or similar). In other words, just the 630 bearings alone would be about EUR 20,00. As the CC-02 most likely will require roughly the similar quantity of bearings as the CC-01, it would leave only EUR 5,00 for all the other bearings plus additional bearings required for the portals in the EUR 25.00 "Full Ball Bearing Set". One may argue that the CC-02 kit may come with some ball bearings included, but as the CC-02 kit isn't significantly more expensive than the "average"  (ball bearings -less) CC-01 kit (topic covered earlier in this thread), I consider it very unlikely that enough ball bearings are included in the CC-02 kit to leave only the EUR 5.00 cost for all missing ball bearings if the "Full Ball Bearing Set" would include ball bearings for portals too. And calling it "Full Ball Bearing Set" without including ball bearings for the hypothetical ports, would defy logic. 

Only time will tell, but all this considered, I can't possibly imagine that the CC-02 kit comes with portals as a standard feature. As an option maybe.....

How typical do you think the CC02 price of EUR220 will be?  I know it's almost impossible to speculate but I'm just wondering about whether Mercedes licensing is typically expensive or not, and whether it's likely they'll release the first CC02 as an example that costs above average to get as much revenue as possible (assuming high demand for the new chassis from both collectors and builders).

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6 hours ago, Blista said:

How typical do you think the CC02 price of EUR220 will be?  I know it's almost impossible to speculate but I'm just wondering about whether Mercedes licensing is typically expensive or not, and whether it's likely they'll release the first CC02 as an example that costs above average to get as much revenue as possible (assuming high demand for the new chassis from both collectors and builders).

The Mercedes-bodied CC-01 kits are typically a bit more expensive (about 10-20%) than the average CC-01 kit, so I would guess that future CC-02 kits with "recycled" generic bodies (eg. Landfreeder) and Japanese bodies will retail for roughly EUR 200.

The actual source quoting the EUR 219.99 price for the CC-02 is typically a bit cheaper than most sources in continental Europe, so a rough guess is that the CC-02 will mostly retail for a bit more than EUR 220. With an estimated suggested retail price between EUR 240 and 280, my guess is that it will retail from slightly below EUR 220 to 260, and close to EUR 280 in rare cases. I have a hard time believing that we'll see prices outside this 220 to 280 window. Not counting the future situations of surplus stock and later rarity of NIB kits once they are discontinued, of course. And considering that the prices for Tamiya products meanwhile vary quite a lot between countries, the scenario that slowly materializes for the CC-02 in Germany (and to some extent continental Europe), will surely look a bit different in other countries. Seeing that the prices for Tamiya kits in the UK are generally roughly the same in GBP (and slightly above) the same amount in EUR in Germany, i reckon the CC-02 will retail for approximately GBP 210 to GBP 300 in the UK.

Except the announced EUR 220 for the CC-02 (# 58675) and actual prices for CC-01 kits, all above are just speculations of course, and I certainly don't pretend to know anything for sure. On the other hand, I have monitored prices for Tamiya items for quite a while now, so I would be surprised if the estimates should turn out to be very far off.

With this in mind, I feel pretty confident that "advanced" features like portals and RC-operated diff-locks or gearshift are out of question as standard features in the kit. Likewise, I believe the CC-02 will be an "all plastic" chassis like the CC-01 and not "all metal" / "semi metal" kit like the 3-speeds, Hi-Lift or CR-01.  I look very much forward to the CC-02 and reckon most flaws of the CC-01 will be gone. Steering mechanism in particular, but also the weaknesses of the integrated gearbox. Also, considering the age of the CC-01, I can't imagine the CC-01 and CC-02 will have many parts in common. Still, I believe the concept will be more of an evolution of the CC-01 than something brand new.  So not an "SRB to ORV" revolution, but more like a "Hotshot to Thundershot" evolution. 

It will be funny to see how wrong or right our speculations will actually be!

 

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Yes although it sounds like the CC-02 wont be a game changer, the "evolution" aspect will equally delight and frustrate!

ie....

Great that its similar and is an improved version, about time etc etc

AND

Arrrghhh Tamiya have missed the opportunity to be better than....etc etc

However! As tamiya fans we will be pleased in general and hopefully it will be a success!

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3 minutes ago, taffer said:

Yes although it sounds like the CC-02 wont be a game changer, the "evolution" aspect will equally delight and frustrate!

ie....

Great that its similar and is an improved version, about time etc etc

AND

Arrrghhh Tamiya have missed the opportunity to be better than....etc etc

However! As tamiya fans we will be pleased in general and hopefully it will be a success!

I agree. Even as a fanatic Tamiya enthusiast who's occasionally  a bit blind, I realize that Tamiya now has a lot of serious competition in the CC-02's market niche. So I would prefer the CC-02 to be more like a downgraded version of the Hi-Lift and less of a CC-01. That said, it's either way about time the CC-01 is replaced. Not so much because of its age as such. After all, the TA02 and F103 are still decent chassises despite their age as long as their not used for serious racing. Likewise, the CC-01 is in my humble opinion still a pleasure to build, run and work on. 

What I don't understand at all though, is why Tamiya never improved the steering or at least offered an optional hop-up for it! Yes, their are OK aftermarket alternatives out there and I use them in my CC-01's, but Tamiya has released quite a lot of more or less useful and necessary hop-ups for the CC-01, but ignored the by far worst weakness of the CC-01 stock parts. How is that eve possible?!?!? 

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1 minute ago, Mokei Kagaku said:

I agree. Even as a fanatic Tamiya enthusiast who's occasionally  a bit blind, I realize that Tamiya now has a lot of serious competition in the CC-02's market niche. So I would prefer the CC-02 to be more like a downgraded version of the Hi-Lift and less of a CC-01. That said, it's either way about time the CC-01 is replaced. Not so much because of its age as such. After all, the TA02 and F103 are still decent chassises despite their age as long as their not used for serious racing. Likewise, the CC-01 is in my humble opinion still a pleasure to build, run and work on. 

What I don't understand at all though, is why Tamiya never improved the steering or at least offered an optional hop-up for it! Yes, their are OK aftermarket alternatives out there and I use them in my CC-01's, but Tamiya has released quite a lot of more or less useful and necessary hop-ups for the CC-01, but ignored the by far worst weakness of the CC-01 stock parts. How is that eve possible?!?!? 

Maybe they felt too long had passed for a steering upgrade or that it added no benefits because of the original design

(it took years and years before we got a metal motor mount, rear suspension links and barrel springs etc, at least these provide a real improvement?)

You can probably safely bet there will be a whole host of upgrades planned as hopups this time around, maybe different coloured plastic parts as well!

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14 hours ago, JennyMo said:

There is no doubt that if you're racing your RC cars, then a 'representative' shell is fair enough - it keeps the weight down, and is easy to sticker and repair... but for the scale driving (trail and rock-crawling particularly), then hard bodies offer not only far more realistic detailing, but are far easier and more rewarding to customise too.

I do hope Tamiya fully exploit their old resin/ABS body moulds with this new release... and make some new ones too!

Gets my vote!!!!!

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51 minutes ago, taffer said:

Maybe they felt too long had passed for a steering upgrade or that it added no benefits because of the original design

(it took years and years before we got a metal motor mount, rear suspension links and barrel springs etc, at least these provide a real improvement?)

You can probably safely bet there will be a whole host of upgrades planned as hopups this time around, maybe different coloured plastic parts as well!

With the risk of highjacking the thread, this tempted me to have a look at the different hop-ups for the CC-01 and as far as I can see, this is it (not counting the optional chrome body parts):

53187 Cross Country 4WD Low-Ride Conversion Kit (1994)
53188 Cross Country 4WD Torque Splitter Unit (1994)
53310 TA03 Universal Drive Shaft (1 Pair) (1997)
53325 TA03 Aluminum Knuckle Arm (1 Pair) (1998)
54483 Rock Block Tires w/Tapered 6-Spoke Wheels (CC-01) (2013)
54484 Rock Block Tires w/2-Piece Mesh Wheels (CC-01) (2013)
54519 Stroke Extension Link (CC-01) (2013)
54541 CC-01 Aluminum Oil Damper Set (4 Pcs.) (2013)
54554 Rock Block Tires w/2-Piece 5-Spoke Wheels (CC-01) (2014)
54598 Rock Block Tires Soft 2 Pcs. (CC-01) (2014)
54608 CC-01 Universal Shaft Set (2014)
54616 CC-01 Metal Plated A-Parts (2015)
54625 CC-01 Chassis Lowering Kit (2015)
54665 CC-01 Aluminum Motor Mount (2015)
54666 CC-01 Barrel Spring Set (2015)
54679 CC-01 Metal Plated C-Parts (2016)
54735 CC-01 Mud Block Tires (2 Pcs.) (2017)
84429 CC-01 Clamp Type Aluminum Wheel Hub (2016)

So, not considering the Low-Ride specific hop-ups and suitable hop-ups originally released for other chassis types, it took from 1993 to 2013 for the first hop-up to be released. I don't know anything about how Tamiya test their products except some old footage of factory track testing of the Mad Cap, but with the Juggernaut disaster in mind, it seems pretty clear that their testing isn't (or at least wasn't in the past) all that thorough. Still, no later than when running my first CC-01 on sand in 1993, it became obvious that the steering mechanism was anything but ideal. Tamiya can't possibly have avoided getting similar experience or feedback literally decades ago! And I'm not talking about the slop, too large turning radius or general "vagueness", which honestly never disturbed me too much. I mean steering getting heavy, locking up and getting poorer and premature wear when being exposed to dust, sand and any type of small debris and that for a model dubbed "Cross Country". As much as I love Tamiya, I think that's inadequate and really poor. Again, we're admittedly not talking about design flaws of Juggernaut proportions, but if nothing else, at least the promise of good sales should have motivated Tamiya to offer a hop-up for the steering? Thinking of all new chassis types released by Tamiya after the CC-01, I can't think of any chassis where Tamiya haven't offered an optional "aluminum"/improved steering (not counting chassis types with direct steering of course, like for instance F104). And many of the chassis types that got a Tamiya hop-up steering mechanism, really didn't need is as much as the CC-01 did.

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1 hour ago, Mokei Kagaku said:

It will be funny to see how wrong or right our speculations will actually be!

 

Although I'm half-expecting to be very pleased and half-expecting to be a bit disappointed, I consider this to be the most exciting release from Tamiya in a long, long time.  Mostly because there's so much they could do, and despite there being so much that the rest of the market is already doing, there's still a niche for a trail-spec kit with just a little more out-of-the box performance than a CC01.  We really could be given anything here, but apart from a few stock photos of the 1:1 car, we've been given no idea of what we'll actually get.

Exciting times indeed.

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On 8/20/2019 at 6:24 PM, Badcrumble said:

I’d hope for a bespoke body for this one

03627A43-84BA-4797-8D45-17612713A53C.jpg

I think the sills extend deeper and the bumpers are different to the standard model. And there’s the big bash guard thingie (technical term).

Someone's already done what I thought Tamiya might do on the cc-02 eventually!

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4 hours ago, 78Triumph said:

I'm hoping for a comical CC-02.  :P

So that's a CCC-02 !🤣

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The design flaws add character and give us and the aftermarket something to do ;) I hope the cc02 does have weaknesses.

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Will the comical version be piloted by a variation of Willy or perhaps a strange looking bear? Metallic and multiple color variants are sure to come as well. Collect them all. All of them! Honestly, knowing Tamiya of late, I expect the difference to be closer to the difference between the TXT-1 and TXT-2 instead of real improvements like the Blackfoot to Super or King Blackfoot. I hope I'm wrong and Tamiya knocks it out of the park.

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They never even released a cc-01ms version with most of the hopups included!? 😒

Maybe the Hilux extra cab is the last ever cc-01?

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Okay, so they appear to have chosen the first G-wagen to feature IFS, and put it on the first CC to feature a solid axle up front? Why??

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Now I'm disappoint.  Was hoping for ifs.  They should have done old model g wagon if they wanted to do solid axle in front.  Looks like it may have have some u bolts.  Hope it's not like the high lift chassis with the super low trans. 

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Looks like I'll need to get back into this hobby. I've been putting off buying an MST CMX for a long time (No doubt still more capable) because I'm a Tamiya nut at heart.

I'm hoping for mounting points for older CC01-based hard bodies, particularly as I would like my Jeep to be "anatomically correct"! :lol:

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