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Rob606

Top Force Upgrades

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I have just bought another Top Force after selling mine years ago and am looking for some upgrade recommendations. I am looking at replacing the shocks for some of the big bore options but can't figure out if I should use 2 sets of the 54505 or 54504 +54505. Has anyone used these? do you have a photo of what this woudl look like? These also don't come with springs so which woudl be a good option to use. 

Thanks. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Rob606 said:

I have just bought another Top Force after selling mine years ago and am looking for some upgrade recommendations. I am looking at replacing the shocks for some of the big bore options but can't figure out if I should use 2 sets of the 54505 or 54504 +54505. Has anyone used these? do you have a photo of what this woudl look like? These also don't come with springs so which woudl be a good option to use. 

Thanks. 

 

You need 2 x 54505. The Top Force uses 87mm front and 94mm rear shocks. You just need to build the front set with 7mm of spacer or oring on the piston to shorten it. A couple of guys on here did that. The max length of 54504 is 75mm so they are too short. 

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1 minute ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

You need 2 x 54505. The Top Force uses 87mm front and 94mm rear shocks. You just need to build the front set with 7mm of spacer or oring on the piston to shorten it. A couple of guys on here did that. The max length of 54504 is 75mm so they are too short. 

Thank you. Do you have a photo of this set up with the mounting and spring choice?

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My guess is that you will still need to mount the shorter front big bore springs on thr front otherwise you won't get anything stiff enough. 54505 doesn't come with springs so you can buy what you need. 

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So I've been looking at upgrades and its hard to find definitive answers.

Bearings - the manual refers to metal 1150 and 850 bearings - are these ball bearings or just like the metal 850s that come in many kits? Do I need to buy a bearing set or not?

Gears - I understand there are some metal gears which need replacing. Is 47393 (high speed set) all I need, or do I need the other gearset too for the idler gear?

If i get the high speed gearset, what pinions will i need? I assume that the smaller spurs are the right size so the motor mount will still work, but instead of say a 16T pinion i would beed a 17T to mesh properly? This info will no doubt be included with the gearset, but I don't have it and need to order the pinions

Motor mount - easy enough, just get a metal one

Turnbuckles - it doesn't come with them by the looks of it, so 3Racing ones will do the job, easy enough.

Wheel hex - it comes with plastic right? Easy to get alloy ones.

 

This is going against everything I usually say, which is don't upgrade a basic model, get the one that has everything already. If Tamiya had released the EVO this wouldn't be a problem...actually, the EVO will be announced just as mine arrives!

 

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@Jonathon Gillham

Bearing sizes:

(16) 5x11x4 (10) 5x8x2.5

Pinion:

If using 47393 start with 69 gear and use 0.6 21t. You line 21t in the 16t position on the motor mount, basically five down. Will give you a 8 fdr. 

Gears:

If using 47393 will not need to use the stock one in kit and removes an aluminum part from gearbox.

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1 hour ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

So I've been looking at upgrades and its hard to find definitive answers.

Bearings - the manual refers to metal 1150 and 850 bearings - are these ball bearings or just like the metal 850s that come in many kits? Do I need to buy a bearing set or not?

Gears - I understand there are some metal gears which need replacing. Is 47393 (high speed set) all I need, or do I need the other gearset too for the idler gear?

If i get the high speed gearset, what pinions will i need? I assume that the smaller spurs are the right size so the motor mount will still work, but instead of say a 16T pinion i would beed a 17T to mesh properly? This info will no doubt be included with the gearset, but I don't have it and need to order the pinions

Motor mount - easy enough, just get a metal one

Turnbuckles - it doesn't come with them by the looks of it, so 3Racing ones will do the job, easy enough.

Wheel hex - it comes with plastic right? Easy to get alloy ones.

 

This is going against everything I usually say, which is don't upgrade a basic model, get the one that has everything already. If Tamiya had released the EVO this wouldn't be a problem...actually, the EVO will be announced just as mine arrives!

 

Looks like you will need 50529 as well to replace the idler. On the plus side you get spare diff casibgs so you have the option for geared diffs if you get the bevels. 

The regular motor mount works with the high speed gearset. You get a manual with it that explains which pinions work in which holes with each spur gear. Not sure about the other stuff. 

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48 minutes ago, MICHAELs TopForce17 said:

@Jonathon Gillham

Bearing sizes:

(16) 5x11x4 (10) 5x8x2.5

Pinion:

If using 47393 start with 69 gear and use 0.6 21t. You line 21t in the 16t position on the motor mount, basically five down. Will give you a 8 fdr. 

Gears:

If using 47393 will not need to use the stock one in kit and removes an aluminum part from gearbox.

Thanks for this.  So if I just buy 47393 then that will leave one aluminium gear in the rear gearbox right?  So ideally I would replace this as they wear quickly don't they?  Or you wouldn't worry too much about it?  I don't mind maintenance, but if I'm going to have to replace it at some point then I may as well start with the more durable one.

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18 minutes ago, MICHAELs TopForce17 said:

@ThunderDragonCy

Thanks no pressure lol.
 

@Jonathon Gillham

47393 is a solid one piece spur gear 69 and 66 ( no aluminum parts)

stock is 74 spur gear with an aluminum part attached to the spur. No idea how quickly it wears out as I never used it. Wouldn’t you weaken the plastic by constantly open it check it. Up to you. 
 

 

Does the other aluminium gear in there cause any problems or is that one fine?

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14 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

Does the other aluminium gear in there cause any problems or is that one fine?

Only one aluminum part and it’s the idler gear dude. pictures here

 

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23 hours ago, MICHAELs TopForce17 said:

Only one aluminum part and it’s the idler gear dude. pictures here

 

Awesome thanks!  Sorry for asking over and over, I have been googling pictures to try and find colour pictures of the gears without any luck.  For some reason I thought the manual was showing 2 aluminium gears - cos you know, you can tell the difference between nylon and aluminium in line drawings.

Since this was a random request when I saw the deal I promised to wait until Christmas so I want to get all the parts I need prior to then.  This is going to end up costing heaps - the kit with "free" Hi Caps is costing about the same as a kit and extra Hi Caps anyway, and I'm going to add a few things.  I could probably have bought a new race kit for what this will end up costing, but meh, it'll look good on the shelf, and also stop me going on about a Top Force.  Now I need to find some way to get a Super Astute and I'm done, honest...I'm not done, I'll never be done

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I'm sure there is 2 aluminium gears.  The idler gear and the one attached to the spur.  Can't for the life of me think why tamiya would put them in there??  Did the Evo have these aswell? 

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1 hour ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

Now I need to find some way to get a Super Astute

Mighty Ape have them on sale at the moment for a decent price.  My willpower is holding out for now but it'd be easier for me if everyone else bought them all up.  :lol:

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32 minutes ago, Blista said:

Mighty Ape have them on sale at the moment for a decent price.  My willpower is holding out for now but it'd be easier for me if everyone else bought them all up.  :lol:

Thanks for the heads up - my business partner lives right by them and usually doesn't need an excuse to buy something...if i let him know thats something i would like he will buy a new fishing rod or something...

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1 hour ago, slimleeroy said:

I'm sure there is 2 aluminium gears.  The idler gear and the one attached to the spur.  Can't for the life of me think why tamiya would put them in there??  Did the Evo have these aswell? 

So that means there will still bd aluminium gear in there if I get the TA02 set? Is this a weak point if there is only 1 aluminium gear in there? I really don't know but want to make this build as bulletproof as I can so want to know the answer

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4 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

So that means there will still bd aluminium gear in there if I get the TA02 set? Is this a weak point if there is only 1 aluminium gear in there? I really don't know but want to make this build as bulletproof as I can so want to know the answer

Sorry for any confusion the part the attaches to the stock 74 spur is called drive gear. The drive gear is the only aluminum part. The idler gear is made of plastic/nylon. I believe the manta ray has the idler gear made of aluminum but not the re re top force(47350). If changing to 50529 or 47393 then you don’t need to worry about it. If using 47393 pinion choices range from  0.6 21t to 25t. If you want your top force to be more like the evolution you can get 47395(front gearbox) which is like the torque splitter but under it’s new name center one way.

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2 hours ago, slimleeroy said:

Either way.  If you get the ta02 plastic gear set you're sorted.

Having literally just done this, agreed! 

If you want all plastic gears and spur options too, buy the TA02 gearset and TA02 speed gears at the same time.

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Thanks everyone. The kit has shipped now so i need to order the rest of the bits soon. Unfortuantely it will be from a few places as the TA02 spurs are out of stock at rcmart. Were they a limited run or something?

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I ordered my gears from Tamico, they're in stock there, i didn't know you were in NZ, sorry.

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Is the main improvement of the Evo vs the standard Top Force from the high cap dampers and the carbon chassis?  Looking through the differences it doesn't seem like the rest are major. 

Turnbuckles are obviously nice to have but don't improve performance, just make tuning easier. 

The lighter aluminium diff parts would probably reduce rotational inertia (or something like that) and make it slightly quicker off the line and battery last longer, but that is probably not an issue these with brushless motors and big capacity batteries. 

Titanium screws look cool but the weight saving is marginal and the buggy doesn't look to be that heavy anyway.

The front one way sounds terrible - I find 4 wheel braking is far superior to 2 wheel (comparing 2wd and 4wd buggies, F1 to touring car).

The carbon chassis is probably a lot stiffer which could provide a big improvement - I wonder if a carbon top deck would give much of this benefit without the cost?

The only FRP shock tower I have is on the Novafox, and that doesn't seem too bad.  Yeah Racing do some cheap carbon ones which could be worth looking at, assuming the carbon that Yeah Racing use is decent.

 

What else am I missing?

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