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Kyosho Ultima 2019

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13 hours ago, Pablo68 said:

This is the re-release that I really wanted Kyosho to do. It's right up there as my favourite buggy of all time, that and one or two others.
Should this be re-released I'm getting one.

What only one ? . lol 

 

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On 8/21/2019 at 11:48 PM, Carrera124 said:

Thank you very much.

My question wasn't intended to be restricted to a special designer, so do you also have the release years for these other buggies?

I think these are all the electric buggies up to 1990, the years are approximate based on what I could find from various sources, if anybody has any more info please chime in:

  • 1978 Eleck Peanuts – Kyosho’s first 1/10 scale electric buggy
  • 1979 Wagen Baja
  • 1982 Scorpion
  • 1983 Beetle
  • 1983 Tomahawk
  • 1984 Progress
  • 1985 Optima
  • 1985 Turbo Scorpion
  • 1985 Gallop
  • 1985 Pegasus
  • 1985 Icarus
  • 1986 Javelin
  • 1986 Turbo Optima
  • 1986 Gallop MKII
  • 1986 Rocky
  • 1986 Optima Pro
  • 1986 Salute
  • 1986 Ultima
  • 1987 Optima Mid
  • 1987 Cosmo
  • 1987 Turbo Optima Mid
  • 1987 Turbo Ultima
  • 1987 Maxxum FF
  • 1988 Turbo Optima Mid SE
  • 1988 Ultima Pro
  • 1988 Turbo Rocky
  • 1988 Raider
  • 1988 Super Bomber
  • 1988 Shadow
  • 1988 Aero Streak
  • 1989 Turbo Optima Mid Special
  • 1989 Ultima Pro XL
  • 1989 Optima Mid Custom
  • 1989 Optima Mid Custom Special
  • 1989 Turbo Raider
  • 1989 Lazer ZX
  • 1990 Ultima II
  • 1990 Raider Pro
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Certain I’m not the only one wandering down memory lane after this prompt ...

So - with prices dropping - how do we think this will fair vs restoring a vintage Ultima ? 

It’s clearly a win vs vintage NIB but old school rarely disappoints ?

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I love tamiya but let's face it.  The kyosho re re's wee all over the tamiya ones from a great height.  

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1 hour ago, slimleeroy said:

I love tamiya but let's face it.  The kyosho re re's wee all over the tamiya ones from a great height.  

I have no regrets buying any of my Kyosho re-re's. They are brilliant designs, still highly capable kits. I can't wait to lay my hands on this updated Ultima!

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13 hours ago, Hobbimaster said:

I have no regrets buying any of my Kyosho re-re's. They are brilliant designs, still highly capable kits. I can't wait to lay my hands on this updated Ultima!

I'm with you the kyosho re-releases are top quality and I hate this thought going through my mind that other than the SRB'S and avante family the kyosho's knock the tamiya re-re's into the very long grass:unsure: the last build I did was the turbo optima and I could have built a dozen of them that's how enjoyable and good quality they are!.........but the one thing that tamiya has in bucket loads (for me anyway) is nostalgia and that never dies👍

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At Facebook, a scan/picture has appeared...

I am wondering about the big gap in article numbers... Turbo Optima was 30619, Ultima will be 30625.
Maybe the missing numbers are preserved for potential re-releases of the Optima mid variants or other near "relatives".

kyosho.jpg

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Looks like another success... not quite perfect; the black shock towers don't look quite right. But I'm sure there will be carbon fiber replacements available when they do the "Turbo." But at least the body, cage, wheels, and tires look right.

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11 hours ago, moffman said:

I hate this thought going through my mind that other than the SRB'S and avante family the kyosho's knock the tamiya re-re's into the very long grass:unsure:

Its the truth though. Kind of an odd scenario. Higher end Kyoshos were always somewhat better than Tamiyas back in the day, but the rereleases are a good bit better than the originals even. Tamiyas were mostly plastic fantastic back then (aside from the early metal era) and Tamiya brought them back, for the most part, unchanged. They've done some revamping here and there, like the nice Frog dogbones or the Avante/Egress uprights but,for the most part, they haven't invested much in updates. Kyosho, evidently starting from scratch, went above and beyond making some truly great interpretations of the originals. Every part oozes quality. I remember assembling my Scorpion thinking, darn this really good stuff. Then on the Optima build, darn this stuff is great! Keep 'em coming Kyosho.

Out of curiosity, I wonder if they will stick with the high end stuff or ever dip down into their "lower end" plastic vehicles like the Raider, Shadow or even the car crusher series. Probably not, but I'd buy a Cosmo or Big Brute.

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I actually really like the old plastic Kyosho offerings! I'd buy an Icarus re-re in a heartbeat. And I'll probably end up with a vintage Double Dare or Hi-Rider Vette someday. Would look great next to my Cox Bandido...

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9 hours ago, Carrera124 said:

At Facebook, a scan/picture has appeared...

I am wondering about the big gap in article numbers... Turbo Optima was 30619, Ultima will be 30625.
Maybe the missing numbers are preserved for potential re-releases of the Optima mid variants or other near "relatives".

kyosho.jpg

This looks great. I wonder if it will come with alternate battery mounting locations for shorty lipos like the re release Tomahawk and Optima/Javelin? I built both the re release Scorpion and Javelin and was super impressed with the quality of the kits, and for old buggy designs they run great too.

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Preassembled gearbox and shocks? I hope not. Is that going to be the final price? That's more than the Optima in the States.

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The original Ultima kit was the same spec as Optima/Javelin: small red shocks, plastic bushings, no swaybars, etc. This seems to follow that pattern (though I'm sure they include bearings, like their other re-issues).

Price does seem a little steep; I would have expected it somewhere closer to the Tomahawk. Maybe that will be adjusted as we get closer? And as for specs, I learned long ago not to trust a seller's description. That could be copy/pasted from the Sandmaster from a few years ago, for all we know... but assembled shocks and diff would be in line with Kyosho tradition.

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8 hours ago, markbt73 said:

Price does seem a little steep; I would have expected it somewhere closer to the Tomahawk. Maybe that will be adjusted as we get closer? And as for specs, I learned long ago not to trust a seller's description. That could be copy/pasted from the Sandmaster from a few years ago, for all we know... but assembled shocks and diff would be in line with Kyosho tradition.

All quite true. I was also expecting Tomahawk-like pricing. The Ultima ran in the neighborhood of the RC10 back in the day, IIRC. Shocks and diff I can deal with, just not a whole gearbox. You're right, we'll just have to wait to see how it plays out.

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The Scorpion buggies all had their diffs and slippers pre-assembled. There was a bit of disassembly to grease things.

The shocks were ready to be filled too, just the gasket to add.

For the Optima buggies, that was all to do yourself, diff, slipper, shocks.

Tomahawk manual: http://www.kyosho.com/jpn/support/instructionmanual/buggy/pdf/30615-Tomahawk_2015_im.pdf

Optima manual: http://www.kyosho.com/jpn/support/instructionmanual/buggy/pdf/30617_OPTIMA_IM.pdf

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How are these to drive? I really need a new build , new Tamiyas don't do it for me, and I have the classics that I desired. I really want a mid darn it!

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1 hour ago, GTodd said:

How are these to drive? I really need a new build , new Tamiyas don't do it for me, and I have the classics that I desired. I really want a mid darn it!

They go well, perhaps a bit understeery but if set up well they are good.
I think they are one of the best designs ever.

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57 minutes ago, Pablo68 said:

They go well, perhaps a bit understeery but if set up well they are good.
I think they are one of the best designs ever.

Good to here, after about 25 years of dialing it In (LOL) I finally have my Top Force dialed in. I don't have that time for another understearing buggy 😀

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They run roughly equivalent to an original RC10.  Kyosho bragged they'd be the next world champion when the Ultima dropped. They made good on the threat at the '87 Worlds. Now granted, the Ultima that won at the Worlds was not like the production buggy. The stock aluminum ladder/girder chassis was pitched in favor of graphite, the gear diff went bye-bye for a ball diff and the red shocks got replaced by gold shocks. I think it even ran a Tomahawk body IIRC. While quite different, the stock Ultima still had the foundation in place to be winner. 

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The great thing about the Ultima/RC10-style architecture is that it handles pretty much any way you want, once you learn how to tune it. Get the right tires for the surface, tweak a few suspension settings, and it will do well pretty much anywhere. Even set up according to the manual, it's 90% of the way there for most driving. That's why that basic shape of car dominated 2WD off-road racing for so long; it "just plain works."

I remember the coverage of the '87 World Championship pretty well. Kyosho swept the top 3 spots, if I recall. I also seem to remember an article in RCCA detailing how to set up and modify your Ultima into a clone of Joel Johnson's.

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On 8/28/2019 at 5:32 PM, Carrera124 said:

I am wondering about the big gap in article numbers... Turbo Optima was 30619, Ultima will be 30625.

Nice spot! 

I remember there being a few variants of the Salute (body colour) and an Optima pro, but they weren't too different to the turbo if memory serves.

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On 8/30/2019 at 9:30 PM, Saito2 said:

They run roughly equivalent to an original RC10.  Kyosho bragged they'd be the next world champion when the Ultima dropped. They made good on the threat at the '87 Worlds. Now granted, the Ultima that won at the Worlds was not like the production buggy. The stock aluminum ladder/girder chassis was pitched in favor of graphite, the gear diff went bye-bye for a ball diff and the red shocks got replaced by gold shocks. I think it even ran a Tomahawk body IIRC. While quite different, the stock Ultima still had the foundation in place to be winner. 

Very true but 2nd and third place Ultimas were extremely close to the stock car.  Retaining the ladder chassis.  Actually they pretty much were turbo Ultimas.  I had an original and the metal chassis'd pro.  They were absolutely awesome cars

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