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competitiveness of a TT02 type S

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hi. a handful of people say a standard TT02 isn't exactly the best for any kind of competitive racing at all (i've no experience in racing so maybe it doesn't matter), mostly due to any lack of adjustability. but the TT02 type S is synonymous with adjustability, with all the turnbuckles and the better suspension. would that put it up against a few higher end chassis since you can tune it a lot more than a standard chassis? i'm just curious, because some people say the TT02 is capable for higher end racing and some others don't. thanks, and any answer is appreciated.

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There are people who could enter any club or regional race series with a TT02 and win, but they are exceptional drivers. @GooneyBird is one of those (I bet he'll say he isn't but don't believe him) as he wrote about running a TT01e against allcomers and winning and getting overly scrutineered. Or something like that anyway.

I don't have a TT02 Type S but have a standard TT02, TT02B, TA07, TRF102 and then Kyosho and HB race buggies so have a reasonable idea of where the TT02 Type S will have shortcomings.

You're right, it has a heap of adjustment available which is more than most people will need or know what to do with. I adjust diff and shock oils, springs and thats about it. I usually have set up camber, toe etc when I build the car and leave it as it doesn't seem to go out of alignment. There are a heap of other things like ackerman, roll centre etc which you hear people talk about but I doubt any truly understand it or notice any difference. Talking to our fastest driver and national champ in offroad and he says that he adjusts stuff but most others just follow him, and even the guys close to him don't fully understand it. There are people like @ThunderDragonCy who clearly understand tuning and setup as well so it is possible.

The main problem with the TT02 is the type of plastics used (generally softer which doesn't break) and there is usually slop in it so it needs shimming. It is also heavier than the top shelf cars and some parts just can't be upgraded. It will also need the high speed gear set and yeah racing motor mount to get gear ratios right as the stock stuff is very limited. As far as I know you can't adjust flex characteristics either which is a useful and easy to understand tuning tool (see below for why its easy). The quality of the TT02 is far below that of a TA series or TRF series car.

For example my TA07 Pro came with plastic suspension blocks and after every race meet it needed shimming (I hit things and can't justify some of my cool cars with ability) but then i got the aluminium ones and its been great since. The R and MS come with these already. I have also standard, carbon reinforced plastic and carbon fibre stiffeners so I can adjust the flex easily, which is easy when you know people who know stuff about tuning and flex as I can tell them what my car does and they tell me what stiffeners to use.

In saying that, a fast guy running a stock TT02 (bearings but otherwise kit esc, motor etc) was faster than me with my TA07 in 21.5T blinky when I first started and since I haven't raced onroad this year would probably beat me still. Add in some bumps and I would like to think I would win...luckily he won't come down to my offroad club to prove me wrong!

Starting out though a class like what NZ clubs call Tamiya GT is great as it removes much of the complexity of racing. I probably should race in it.

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Adding to the above, you'll need to modify the spur gear cover (to fit a larger pinion gear) if you want to run a FDR below ~4.7, which will be required if running 21.5t and probably also 17.5t unless your local track is tiny. Adjusting the FDR is a lot more work than other chassis as the rear diff cover (and therefore suspension), as well as the spur gear cover and the motor itself have to be removed in order to change the spur and pinion gears. It is less work if you only change pinion gears, but if making a big change you will need to do the spur as well since the TT02 only allows limited adjustment before the motor body or pinion gear interfere with the chassis or propshaft. All the cover screws are threaded into the plastic chassis, so if you aren't careful you will strip out the chassis over time. Luckily the chassis is a cheap replacement part.

Type S fixes most of the short comings with the 'standard' TT02 suspension. The main adjustments you will still lack is rear toe (fixed at 3deg), front caster (fixed at 4deg but can replace c-hubs to get 6deg), and droop screws - you will have to rebuild the shocks to adjust droop. The number of holes in the standard shock towers is also lacking in order to adjust ride height independently of spring/shock rate, and there are only 2 options for mounting the upper arm to adjust camber gain / roll center - the inner hole of which is just about useless as you get almost no camber gain (which was the main problem with the standard TT02).

To be competitive you'll need a spool or very stiff front diff and a looser rear diff. You can achieve this using grease in the standard diffs however it is inconsistent as after some time the grease gets flung off the gears and the diff becomes looser. What you really want for TC racing is a spool/locked front diff and an oil filled rear diff. The standard diffs will leak if you fill them up with anything less than really thick oil (>200K cst). A decent oil filled diff with o-ring seals is expensive for a TT02 (hopup 54875). 3racing make a cheaper one but apparently it isn't very good quality - although I haven't personally tried it. Put a lock block in a standard front diff (not the tamiya one, it's too heavy) or simply epoxy glue all the internal plastic gears together, or run something like 1million cst silicone oil.

You'll need to lower weight at every opportunity - light weight body shell, low profile servo, shorty/lightweight battery pack, minimise wiring lengths, carbon battery strap and front bumper mount - otherwise you'll find yourself at close to 1500g when other cars are running close to the minimum weight of ~1350g. A lot of the aftermarket aluminium hop ups will subtract more performance at a racetrack from being heavier than they will add from being stiffer than the standard plastic parts. The aluminium hopups that Tamiya offer are generally justified in increasing racing performance.

 

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@Jonathon Gillham @nbTMM thank you guys for your answers. if you have the information, what's the lightest you've ever seen a TT02 weigh (any variant)? i wanna know what it can go down to. i've read somewhere else a guy got theirs around 1200-1300g.

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Mine is 1310g without a body shell but with battery, a Turnigy Graphene 4600mAh shorty pack (206g). It's pretty much a stock type S but with the blue chassis (glass fibre reinforced but the same weight as black one iirc), 64dp gears, the blue alloy and carbon hopups you can see, a standard diff with lock block in front and an oil diff filled half way with 3000cst in the rear.
Could probably slash a few more grams by changing the steel turnbuckles and screws to aluminium or titanium. I'm sticking with steel for now as i'm a newb and prefer it to be durable.
Light weight body shells around 60-70g are common. Most tamiya body shells are 100-150g because they have very thick polycarbonate to make them durable.
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Some of the most fun I have ever had racing was in a spec TT class.  Racing against other TT's of course but I can say I was faster with my TT02 that day than my TA07 on same course.  Was a bumpier outside asphalt with inconsistent traction circuit.  It was TT02 RR pretty much stock with exception of 1 million weight AE diff oil in front.  

I enjoyed that racing as much as anything else which is the point.  I think we get hung up on what is fastest too much.  Sure I have faster cars but they cost 3 times as much and I can't say they deliver any more fun when push comes to shove but I am not that hardcore. 

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On 8/30/2019 at 2:30 AM, RCvet said:

Some of the most fun I have ever had racing was in a spec TT class.  Racing against other TT's of course but I can say I was faster with my TT02 that day than my TA07 on same course.  Was a bumpier outside asphalt with inconsistent traction circuit.  It was TT02 RR pretty much stock with exception of 1 million weight AE diff oil in front.  

I enjoyed that racing as much as anything else which is the point.  I think we get hung up on what is fastest too much.  Sure I have faster cars but they cost 3 times as much and I can't say they deliver any more fun when push comes to shove but I am not that hardcore. 

Preach on man!

Most of my racing is done in spec TT-classes, be it the Dutch Tamiya Cup, or local events. In fact, I recently did an enduro with a TT01E, which saw this car running 275 km (170 miles) in 8 hours, and coming out third overall and first in class. And that was against M-chassis, 'actual' Touring cars and TT-Trucks.

The Type S usually isn't elligable for spec TT, as the suspension gives the car such an advantage. However, I've seem them being put to good use against TA07s and even Xrays and the like. Once you engineer around the limited gearing options they're great (if a bit heavy) touring cars.

On 8/16/2019 at 7:25 AM, Jonathon Gillham said:

There are people who could enter any club or regional race series with a TT02 and win, but they are exceptional drivers. @GooneyBird is one of those (I bet he'll say he isn't but don't believe him) as he wrote about running a TT01e against allcomers and winning and getting overly scrutineered. Or something like that anyway.

TT01E, actually. And thank you! :D

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In terms of drivetrain, adjustability, etc, they don't look much different to a TB-03, and my TB-03 is pretty quick...

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