What model to start

[Greenhorny 6]

Hello

I don't yet own a rc-model and therefore have no idea about it. I will certainly buy an on-road model (such as the Citroen). But to start I would like to have an off-road model that is also good for asphalt. The model should not cost (much) more than about 200 Euro / Dollars. I like the Monster Beetle from the way it looks, though it is "only" a 2WD. Is that bad resp. does this make much of a difference. But I also found other models in the internet, such as Neo Scorcher, Dual Ridge and the Sand Viper. 

Please let me know your opinions about this

[TwistedxSlayer 1290]

Welcome to the site. The Neo Scorcher and Dual Ridge are the same TT02B chassis. Entry level 4wd off road buggy. Low ground clearance but work very well on road. The Sand Viper I believe is a DT02 which is 2wd. I personally prefer 4wd over 2wd but that's an entirely personal choice to me.

I have a Neo Scorcher and what started as a basis kit has cost me a small fortune in upgrades but I have totally enjoyed spending the extra cash on it.

The Neo Scorcher I would recommend as a 1st build but I would suggest a couple of upgrades as you build it. Like swapping the bushings out for ball bearings and changing the shock towers from plastic to carbon fibre or fibre reinforced plastic. I'd avoid the aluminium ones. There are a gazillion threads on here for the TT02B / Neo Scorcher if you run a search you'll find as much information as you want. AND more importantly it comes in under your budget.

[ThunderDragonCy 7882]

Welcome! Man, this is a tough one. The Monster Beetle will be great but needs a lot of looking after as its a 35 year old design underneath. For something that is fun across different surfaces, get a buggy (any you like, 2 or 4wd doesn't matter) but make sure you budget for some asphalt tyres, or spares wheels with road tyres. You really need spikes for proper off road, but they are rubbish on road. 

The other option (which just sneaks in on budget) is get the XV01 Lancia Delta rally car. Does a bit of everything. 

[taffer 948]

Sand viper good choice for a starter buggy, easy maintenance and tougher than tt02b models

[Badcrumble 4204]

Where are you based? If you are happy to source from Germany and want something monster-y, how about a Rock Socker?

https://tamico.de/Tamiya-Rock-Socker-CR-01-Bausatz-58592

The only hop-up upgrade often suggested are the driveshafts.

I can’t vouch for the performance though - yet to build mine!!!!

Otherwise, I would go for a Konghead.

https://tamico.de/Tamiya-Konghead-6x6-G6-01-Bausatz-300058646

[DK308 219]

I would stay away from the Monster Beetle. Sure it's cool looking and all, but it is no good to drive and durability is mediocre at best. It has a lot of built in flaws that to me at least, make that and the Blackfoot no-gos.

I would choose either a Plasma Edge or Aero Avante - basically anything DF02 or DF03. Good fun builds and there's a bunch of upgrades you can do down the line. The TT02B is not bad and I own one, but it takes a bunch of hop-ups to really fly. 

The Konghead? Way too much of an aquired taste to be anything I would reccomend, especially to someone who's expressing interest in onroad driving.

[Problemchild 2149]

Neo Scorcher defo - it’s mega cheap

it looks great and the TT-02b has loads or upgrades avaialble

it also comes with an updated motor 

its also a tough little beast

JJ

[Bromley 681]

If you want 2wd I'd say go for the DT02 Sand Viper or DT03 Racing fighter.

If 4wd any of the TT02B buggys or if you want some retro cool, the Boomerang.

[Juggular 4964]

Functionality and Fun are two different things.  

4WD is more capable.  But for me, 2WD is more fun.  When I only had Grasshopper, I really I wanted something 4WD (like Hotshot).  But now that I have enough of all kinds, I like the challenges of driving 2WD more.  You'll need to experience every type.  

[1]  As @Bromley said, why not start with a DT02 or DT03?  They are simple yet effective 2WD in RR (rear motor, rear wheel) configuration.  Fun to drive too.  

[2]  Then get a 4WD buggy, like DF02, DF03 (or TT02b which is similar to DF02).  DF03 requires a bit more experience, but you'll be fine after DT02 or DT03.  4WD will resist your order less.  It will just go as you tell it to go without fighting you.  You might like that, or you might like wilder 2WD.  Depends on your taste.  

[3]  XV01 is also 4WD, but it has a motor in front of front wheels.  As far as I can tell, it's the most realistic design.  It's a rally chassis.  It will be more like on-road, but designed for dirt tracks.  Like DF03, building this also requires some skills.  

[4]  Then you can start with M05 or M07 on-road chassis.  They are FF (front motor, front driven) config, so it would drive similar to XV01, yet, different because it's 2WD.  (underlined chassis might be challenging for first time builders)

This way, you get to experience with 2WD, 4WD, and front and rear weight distribution and FWD and RWD too. 

For balanced RC diet, you know. 

 

[SuperChamp82 743]

Agree with @Juggular

Tricky bit is deciding up front how far you want to enjoy 2WD - largely because the DT02 Sand Vipers are way better when hopped up ... but the DT03 Neo Fighters run much better stock. 

If you’re interested in a bit of older school fun, look up the DN01 and how it compares with a race bred TRF 201 ... because you’d prob get either with this budget a bit of patience on eBay ?

Beyond that, you can’t go wrong with a DF03 Dark Impact for first 4WD  

Good luck + welcome again 👍

[Problemchild 2149]

For a beginner, 4wd is so much more forgiving and while you can do donuts, it doesn’t just go round and round when trying to put the power down - especially if you tweak the power 

so for a beginner - the enjoyment comes from being made to look good by the 4wd buggy.

I’d say the 2wd beetle is one of the most fun and iconic and crowd drawing but as has been said, the gearbox is weak (unless you brace it) and it’s top heavy plus it’s a solid shell and bit snap off easy. However I love mine.

Is still say for £100 that the neo Scorcher is the Best Buy then slowly start to add some yeah racing parts, update the 2 gearbox internals and then add a brushless.

its my fave car to drive 

JJ

[Bromley 681]

All that said, if you still like the monster beetle and don't intend on putting a much more powerful motor in it....get one. Running the stock motors and 2S lipo they can be reliable enough with adequate care. It is always nice to get that vehicle you always wanted and then to find out 1st hand what it is really like. Lots of options out there and lots to learn. That is this wonderful hobby.

I like the Monster beetle very much. Although not so good on asphalt it is laugh off road. If it is the beetles looks you like, why not go for a Blitzer Beetle? 

These are good general bashers and if you get a second set of wheels and tyres for road use they handle fairly well. They also don't suffer from weak transmission and can take silly amounts off power.

[Jonathon Gillham 4606]

I love the Monster Beetle, it was one in the catalogue I always wanted and we (its actually my sons) have one. However, add the cost of the MIP ball diff to it when you look at the price. With the MIP diff its bulletproof and really fun to drive. Its good value with a silvercan and does handle well. When we have backyard races I will win with the Monster Beetle if thats what i end up driving, and thats against friends who don't race but running my race cars.

For a first kit I would recommend an entry level car which is pretty much all that have been suggested now. The mid and top level cars do require a bit more knowledge to build them properly.

I don't have a DT02 or DT03, but find the Novafox (2wd) to be a better runner on grass than a modern (TT02B) 4wd car. Ground clearance is more important than how many wheels are being driven. On a track though a 4wd is much easier to drive. I doubt you would have too many issues with any of the buggies suggested.

[ThunderDragonCy 7882]

@Bromley hit the nail on the head here. If you like the beetle look a Blitzer would be a great first car. Lots of clearance fir running on grass or off road, more planted if you run it on road. 

[Problemchild 2149]

You don’t need the crazy expensive ball diff though

just the gearbox brace

mine is running a brushless set up with the brace ok

JJ

[nbTMM 433]

TT02B would be my pick for on-road and a bit of mild off road action (short grass, gravel, dirt) - grass longer than 1.5-2" will have it almost stopped in its tracks with the standard wheels, ride height and motor. Buy some different wheels for on-road use so you don't wear out the spikes on the off-road tyres. It is reasonably durable, but still requires some restraint otherwise you'll be breaking parts - it is a low slung buggy that is designed to be driven tidily over relatively smooth terrain. Parts are cheap and plentiful though and there are zillions of hop up parts to keep you amused and slightly improve it's off-road capability. DT-02/03 and DF-02/03 might be slightly more capable off road, but parts availability is not as good - they are older designs and support is dwindling. 
Tamiya unfortunately don't really have any cars that are super rugged and super capable off road for all out bashing - that's not really their target market. Most tamiyas are really only designed to cope with a 'silver can' motor (low power brushed motor) and many parts are harder plastics which crack if abused. Newer designs (like the TT02B) have more flexible nylon and glass reinforced parts which cope with a bit more abuse. For all-out off-road bashing, I think you have to look towards ready to run cars from different manufacturers like a Traxxas Slash or similar cars from Arrma, Axial or Losi instead - those can take big motor power with relatively few upgrades, and many of those you could jump off the roof of a house and they would just shrug it off like it's nothing. If you aren't launching it off 1metre+ jumps you should be fine with a Tamiya.

[Palfertronic 74]

Just to get you started, why not try a Mad Bull? nice big tyres, easy to build, and works well on or off road!

[Greenhorny 6]

Thank you a lot for your numerous and differentiated answers.

As many of you say, it is maybe better, to start with a solid and simple model that is easier to build. Because of what you wrote, I tend to a:

4WD: Neo Scorcher, Plasma Edge or:

2WD: Neo Fighter, Novafox (ev. Mad Bull) or Blitz-Beetle

As I said: I like the look of the Beetles. I don't really like the look of most of the buggies such as the Novafox or the Neo Fighter, a little bit better I do like the Neo Scorcher and the Plasma Edge. Of all the buggies, the also recommended Avante looks best resp. very good IMO (beyond it makes a very worthy impression) but it is to expensive for me.

But still: a good look is something nice but not my first criteria, especially for to start.

A relevant fact is but still irritating for me are the differences and the decision concerning 2WD or 4WD.

4WD: From what I understood it must be more forgiving on-road but not so good for off-road

2WD: Better for off-road but not so easy/sure for on-road.

 

While I first tended to a 4WD, I wonder, whether it is not a good idea to choose a 2WD as I anyway intend to get also an on-road model later on.

What do you think about that?

And:

If it was a 2WD: Some of you say, the Blitz-Beetle is nice, but the other models are maybe better to start with and to build. Others do still recommend it (because, as I said: from the look I like him best).

And last but not least:

As already mentioned, it would be an advantage, if the model is not all to difficult to build (it would be my first modell to build and I'm not a master of handcraft. Though I'm looking forward to build my first model). 

It is certainly helpful if the model is good out of the box but still can be tuned later on. That must not include an absolute high tuning but maybe some basic things such as another motor and other things you may find nice and helpful to improve the car.

[Problemchild 2149]

Well for your €200 get a €100 4WD TT-02b and a €90 2WD racing fighter 

sorted

think you just need to understand what people are saying though

they are not saying 2WD is better off road

they are saying the monster beetle and mad bull are (bigger wheels)

2WD (IMHO) is described as “fun” because it’s harder to drive and its challenging to get the power down. 

4WD is more stable and controllable 

whatever happens, the build is the best bit  and the bit you should take your time over, trim all the pieces and assemble with pride

JJ

[Greenhorny 6]

 

Thank you Problemchild 

And sorry to all if I mixed up things. It's not only that I'm a beginner but also because of the many and detailed answers to digest. Don't misunderstand: I appreciate it and am grateful for them.

I came to the decision to not get two cars at the same time. Not only for financial reasons (I don't even have the radio-control I want yet). It would be too much for me, to build and get used to two models at more or less the same time. I don't expect from my first model anymore, that is as good at both, off-, and on-road. And I decided my first model to be a real off-roader. So let me try to sum it up a bit, what I've learnt so far:

For off-road the relevant advantages are given by bigger wheels and is there for not a question of 2WD or 4WD.

2WD for off-road:

That seems to make the Mad Bull and the Monster a good 2WD-choice. Let us forget about the prize for a moment (though the MB would have a very good prize, of course).

As I said: I like the Monster's look better. But it's said not to be as robust as others (Mad Bull, Flitzer etc.). This is ought to be not such a big problem with the standard Motor it has. Right? But what if I got a stronger motor? It must not be a super strong (fast) one, just a – probably brushless – one, that makes it go between 30Mph (or 50kmh) to 40Mph (or 60 kmh) at the most. Is there a possibility, to upgrade the monster, for example with metal bearings etc., so that the durability would get strong enough? 

4WD for off-road:

You recommend a TT-02b. So out of the mentioned Models it could be only the Neo Scorcher. The Plasma Edge has a TT-02. But still: if 2WD is not better for off-road but bigger wheels are, why the 4WD-Models do all have smaller wheels than the 2WDers (as it seems to me from the pictures I've seen)?

And would it therefore not better, to get the MB or the Monster? Or is it possible to get bigger wheels for the 4WD-models?

[Problemchild 2149]

It’s not a problem 

I’ve only just got back into this 

started with a lunchbox then a beetle 

then neo Scorcher and now rebuilding some childhood memories

if you want to drive over the grass and through the woods then get a beetle - it’ll repay you with warm fuzzy feelings

even the noise of the gearbox is fab

it has metal gears so they are tough but the walls of the gearbox are thin metal plates so they get pushed apart by the diff - loads of info about solutions - it’s not a massive issue 

so if you know where you will use it most then that will help

beetle - nostalgia tastic and great fun

TT-02b - cheap and fun and hugely upgradable plus you can add bigger wheels if you fancy

 

if you are gonna use it street, car parks, local parks then TT-02b

anything rougher like branches and woodland then beetle 

^^^mine

Good comparison

 

[Greenhorny 6]

Thank's a lot for your answer and the videos (especially the nice short one of your beetle).

I think it's going to be a TT-02b. Neo Scorcher, Dual Ridge or Plasma Edge. Just to be shure; are they all the same concerning technic, funcionality and behaviour?

And are there differences in the difficulty level of building them?

[DK308 219]

1 hour ago, Greenhorny said:

 

Thank you Problemchild 

And sorry to all if I mixed up things. It's not only that I'm a beginner but also because of the many and detailed answers to digest. Don't misunderstand: I appreciate it and am grateful for them.

I came to the decision to not get two cars at the same time. Not only for financial reasons (I don't even have the radio-control I want yet). It would be too much for me, to build and get used to two models at more or less the same time. I don't expect from my first model anymore, that is as good at both, off-, and on-road. And I decided my first model to be a real off-roader. So let me try to sum it up a bit, what I've learnt so far:

For off-road the relevant advantages are given by bigger wheels and is there for not a question of 2WD or 4WD.

2WD for off-road:

That seems to make the Mad Bull and the Monster a good 2WD-choice. Let us forget about the prize for a moment (though the MB would have a very good prize, of course).

As I said: I like the Monster's look better. But it's said not to be as robust as others (Mad Bull, Flitzer etc.). This is ought to be not such a big problem with the standard Motor it has. Right? But what if I got a stronger motor? It must not be a super strong (fast) one, just a – probably brushless – one, that makes it go between 30Mph (or 50kmh) to 40Mph (or 60 kmh) at the most. Is there a possibility, to upgrade the monster, for example with metal bearings etc., so that the durability would get strong enough? 

4WD for off-road:

You recommend a TT-02b. So out of the mentioned Models it could be only the Neo Scorcher. The Plasma Edge has a TT-02. But still: if 2WD is not better for off-road but bigger wheels are, why the 4WD-Models do all have smaller wheels than the 2WDers (as it seems to me from the pictures I've seen)?

And would it therefore not better, to get the MB or the Monster? Or is it possible to get bigger wheels for the 4WD-models?

First off, a Monster Beetle going 50-60 kph is downright undrivable, simple as. What makes it weak, has little to do with the bearings, All Tamiya cars that do not come with ball bearings, should be upgraded to ball bearings. The weakness is part of the design itself. Even though there's some metal gears in it, there's also plastic gears. The steering is not very strong either.it is what it is.

The fact that Tamiya is making more big wheel 2wd models than 4wd, has nothing to do with what is better for offroad. I have zero clue as to why they did so. No doubt 4WD is better for offroad, and faster. As was also mentioned, you can add larger wheels to a TT02B. Note that if you decide to get a TT02B and run it brushless, specially 3S and with big wheels, you will need the GPM metal diffs. My plastic gears lasted less than an hour on 2S with stock sized wheels. The TT02B plastic gears are rubbish and a well known issue. If you want a Tamiya rig that will run offroad and run 50-60 kph, an upgraded TT02B such as the Neo Scorcher with bigger wheels, is a good option.

There are few upgrades you can do to the Beetle, and it will never hold up to prolonged 3S 50-60 kph use. It was never built for that.

If you want the TT02B to run like that, here's what you need - and they are not suggestions, they are must haves.

http://www.rcmart.com/yeah-racing-tt02013bu-sample-p-36559.html?cPath=595_744_1585

http://www.rcmart.com/yeah-racing-tt02014bu-sample-p-36560.html?cPath=595_744_1585

http://www.rcmart.com/yeah-racing-ball-bearing-with-tamiya-tt02b-yb0276mx-p-37689.html?cPath=595_744_1585

http://www.rcmart.com/tt2b160p-spring-steel-turnbuckle-with-plastic-ends-7pcs-p-61745.html?cPath=595_744_1585

http://www.rcmart.com/tamiya-54500-tt02-high-speed-gear-p-36841.html?cPath=595_744_1585

http://www.rcmart.com/tamiya-54502-tt02-aluminum-propeller-joint-p-37040.html?cPath=595_744_1585

http://www.rcmart.com/aluminum-front-knuckle-tamiya-tt02b-p-63687.html?cPath=595_744_1585

http://www.rcmart.com/aluminum-rear-hubknuckle-degree-tamiya-tt02b-p-63688.html?cPath=595_744_1585

https://www.gpmparts.com/tamiya-tt02-steel-ring-gear-bevel-8pcs-set-for-tt02b-gpm-tt2100-p-90070804.html  x2

https://www.gpmparts.com/aluminium-hitorque-servo-saver-for-25t-spline-output-shaft-1pc-set-gpm-sh025tm2s-p-90076257.html

 

Taking something that was meant to run a 540 brushed motor and then turn up the power as much as is done when doing brushless, and especially adding large wheels, that dramatically change how much wear and tear is put on the rig.

 

 

[DK308 219]

1 hour ago, Greenhorny said:

Thank's a lot for your answer and the videos (especially the nice short one of your beetle).

I think it's going to be a TT-02b. Neo Scorcher, Dual Ridge or Plasma Edge. Just to be shure; are they all the same concerning technic, funcionality and behaviour?

And are there differences in the difficulty level of building them?

Yes they are all the same. If you can find a TT02B MS that will give you a nice bit of upgrades. But it will still need a lot of what I put on the list. But the MS does include alu rear hub carriers, prop shaft and drive cups. It also includes adjustable turn buckles, but they are pretty weak. But you'll still need to upgrade the steering, diffs  servo saver, front steering knuckles, high speed spur and the motor mount. But the MS is nice and I like the upgraded composite suspension towers etc. over the plastic bits in the normal TT02B.

[Juggular 4964]

Yes, TT02b are all the same.  The difference among TT02b is superficial.  

You could get bigger tires, but that may require a brushless motor.  Brushed motors have less torque, and there is a limit to the gear ratio to cope with larger tires.  If you upgrade motors, you might want to upgrade differentials too--with metal ones from DF02.  

I suggest not to worry about speed for now.  Before you start, it's natural to think about the speed.  Some people do go for max speed, but for most of us, it becomes less important than just having fun.  If you are not used to driving, speed is not your friend.  1kg mass travelling at 60kph, jumping over some tree root hidden under grass, flying directly into some child's eye?  That would be a bad day for everyone.  You can decide what's important to you after you built it.  Samurais start with bamboo swords.  As you get better at driving, you can increase speed to match your skill.  Even after 3 dozen RC cars, I don't know what I'll do to XV01 if I get it.  After building your TT02B, revisit what @DK308 wrote.  His list would come in handy then.  

------------- 

As you know, TT02 is an on-road vehicle.  TT02B is a buggy version.  DF02 is basically the same thing, but DF02 was built as a buggy from the start.  It has a stronger pan chassis and metal diff gears.  Slap on a metal diff from DF02, you'll be fine with upgraded motors.  

As you already plan to, ball bearings are a must.  You might want to order 1150 bearings and 1280 bearings for TT02B.  Tamiya's naming convention: outer diameter + inner diameter. 11mm outside, 5mm inside.  But engineers do it the other way around.  Inner diameter x outer x thickness.  So, you can look for "5mm x 11mm x 4mm bearings," for 1150 bearings, and you'll find 10 of them for $2 or so.  

I would recommend a JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) screwdriver.  That fits Tamiya screws well.  However, German "Wiha" #1 screw driver (small) fits just as well as Tamiya #1.  (Here in USA, phillips drivers don't work well with Tamiya screws)  I don't know if German standard is similar to the Japanese or what.  Anyway, #2 (larger) screwdriver is far more useful than smaller #1.  If you are in a country where phillips doesn't fit well, it would be a good idea to get a #2 JIS screwdriver.  

You will not get everything in one bite.  It seems you were on the fence between 4WD and the look of Monster Beetle.  If you go for the functionality of 4WD, you will miss Monster Beetle.  If you went with Monster Beetle, you will want 4WD.  That's why many of us end up having more than one (after few years).  Whichever you choose, enjoy it, knowing that you can get the other one later, if you choose to.  (It took about 15 years for me to get a Hotshot after Grasshopper)