What model to start

[Problemchild 2149]

All the same - just pick your shell preference  (there are variations each shell type too - eg the neo Scorcher comes in blue, pink and chrome blue)

do get ball bearing kit (£10)

the MS tamiya racing version isn’t available anywhere new (I was looking for a friend today) who wants a TT-02b

Then search “yeah racing” parts to upgrade.

JJ

[nbTMM 433]

If you're going for a TT02B, I'd build it first with a set of ball bearings and everything else as standard. The plastic links/arms/shafts/gears/steering that come in the kit will be absolutely fine to get you going. The standard plastic suspension of the TT02/TT02B is almost bombproof. The plastic suspension parts are actually more durable then the metal/carbon parts because they will flex instead of bending/snapping. The rigidity of the carbon/turnbuckle suspension parts will however give you sharper handling, it's a trade-off of durability for performance. You can always add hop-ups later as you desire, and as the plastic parts start to wear out.

Putting bigger wheels or a more powerful motor will definitely demand an upgrade of the differentials to metal gears which is not a particularly cheap upgrade. Stronger gears are required with a more powerful motor for obvious reasons, but stronger gears are also required if you put larger wheels on with the standard motor, because when the car gets airborne and then lands whichever wheels hit the ground last are re-synced to the road speed through the drivetrain by the wheels on the ground and that can put massive loads on the drivetrain, especially if the wheels are large in diameter and heavy (= more torque generated).

I've done both a powerful brushless motor (about 8x the power of the standard motor) and big wheels (+30% diameter, probably twice the weight of standard wheels) to a TT02B and pretty much immediately stripped the plastic differential gears. Since then it's got GPM steel differential gears front and rear, in addition to the steel propellor joints, aluminium propellor shaft and steel universal driveshafts it's had from day one. Even now, I can see the steel driveshafts are going to be a consumable item - every 5-10 battery packs they are going to require rebuilding or replacing. It would be much more economical to just buy a Traxxas Slash, but where's the fun in that? . I like the challenge of working out which combination of parts to use to keep it semi-reliable, and fixing it when it does break. My suspension is still standard plastic hubs and lower arms from the kit - it has taken a few heavy crashes and nothing has broken yet, maybe I'm just lucky. I suspect eventually I'll break a hub - only when that happens I'll consider upgrading to aluminium hubs.

This is it - you can see how much it bogs down in the grass compared to asphalt: only about 35-45kmh in the ~2-3" grass compared to 60kmh+ on asphalt. A completely standard, brushed motor TT02B only goes about 20-25kmh on asphalt and has half the ground clearance, so it would probably wouldn't even move on this grass.

 

[Jonathon Gillham 4606]

The TT02B is a great option for a first buggy. The build is straight forward and little can go wrong but its still satisfying. Definitely get bearings but only upgrade stuff that breaks. A 13.5T brushless is plenty of power and good fun but requires the DF02 or GPM diffs.

I would seriously consider any other upgrades though before spending any money. You could easily spend twice the kit price again on hopups and still have a car that isn't that capable. If you are going to spend much its far better to buy a race kit from the start, it will perform far better and be far more durable.

[DK308 219]

7 hours ago, nbTMM said:

If you're going for a TT02B, I'd build it first with a set of ball bearings and everything else as standard. The plastic links/arms/shafts/gears/steering that come in the kit will be absolutely fine to get you going. The standard plastic suspension of the TT02/TT02B is almost bombproof. The plastic suspension parts are actually more durable then the metal/carbon parts because they will flex instead of bending/snapping. The rigidity of the carbon/turnbuckle suspension parts will however give you sharper handling, it's a trade-off of durability for performance. You can always add hop-ups later as you desire, and as the plastic parts start to wear out.

Putting bigger wheels or a more powerful motor will definitely demand an upgrade of the differentials to metal gears which is not a particularly cheap upgrade. Stronger gears are required with a more powerful motor for obvious reasons, but stronger gears are also required if you put larger wheels on with the standard motor, because when the car gets airborne and then lands whichever wheels hit the ground last are re-synced to the road speed through the drivetrain by the wheels on the ground and that can put massive loads on the drivetrain, especially if the wheels are large in diameter and heavy (= more torque generated).

I've done both a powerful brushless motor (about 8x the power of the standard motor) and big wheels (+30% diameter, probably twice the weight of standard wheels) to a TT02B and pretty much immediately stripped the plastic differential gears. Since then it's got GPM steel differential gears front and rear, in addition to the steel propellor joints, aluminium propellor shaft and steel universal driveshafts it's had from day one. Even now, I can see the steel driveshafts are going to be a consumable item - every 5-10 battery packs they are going to require rebuilding or replacing. It would be much more economical to just buy a Traxxas Slash, but where's the fun in that? . I like the challenge of working out which combination of parts to use to keep it semi-reliable, and fixing it when it does break. My suspension is still standard plastic hubs and lower arms from the kit - it has taken a few heavy crashes and nothing has broken yet, maybe I'm just lucky. I suspect eventually I'll break a hub - only when that happens I'll consider upgrading to aluminium hubs.

This is it - you can see how much it bogs down in the grass compared to asphalt: only about 35-45kmh in the ~2-3" grass compared to 60kmh+ on asphalt. A completely standard, brushed motor TT02B only goes about 20-25kmh on asphalt and has half the ground clearance, so it would probably wouldn't even move on this grass.

 

Have to absolutely disagree.

I have an MS and a normal TTO2B. The composite towers are much stronger than the plastic ones in the normal kit. They are also very capable of flexing on impact.

The plastic suspension and steering links are anything but bomb proof. They snap like twigs and that glossy plastic is generally very brittle. You are kidding yourself if you think those are as strong and work as well as the GPM set with nylon ends and steel balls. That GPM turnbuckle set is in fact very strong and make a huge difference.

The plastic shaft is brittle too and snaps with anything more than the stock 540.

To say that these specific parts are a trade-off or less durable, is completely wrong. 

I upgraded the hub carriers as they warped and broke. That's why I suggest those.

The TT02 plastic gears are a down right joke. Never in my 25+ years in this game, have I experienced anything like it. They may work fine for an onroad car with a stock 540 and completely open diffs, but they are worthless in anything with a bit of power, especially if you put high viscosity fluid in there and get some proper tyres.

Lastly, the servo saver. Those stock Tamiya servo savers are the worst. The GPM unit I linked to works well with no slop - and it does not come loose, strip or break.

I base my suggestions on the fact that some things may get you going, but the initial experience will be so much better with things that work properly.

There's bling and there's upgrades. I've suggested the latter. And there is no single place where the stock parts do a better job than the suggested.

And if the OP wants a rig that is good for an honest 50 kph without breaking, those parts are needed. The suspension towers can wait, but the mechanical stuff I suggested are must haves.

[Rb4276 803]

8 hours ago, nbTMM said:

If you're going for a TT02B, I'd build it first with a set of ball bearings and everything else as standard. The plastic links/arms/shafts/gears/steering that come in the kit will be absolutely fine to get you going. The standard plastic suspension of the TT02/TT02B is almost bombproof. The plastic suspension parts are actually more durable then the metal/carbon parts because they will flex instead of bending/snapping. The rigidity of the carbon/turnbuckle suspension parts will however give you sharper handling, it's a trade-off of durability for performance. You can always add hop-ups later as you desire, and as the plastic parts start to wear out.

Putting bigger wheels or a more powerful motor will definitely demand an upgrade of the differentials to metal gears which is not a particularly cheap upgrade. Stronger gears are required with a more powerful motor for obvious reasons, but stronger gears are also required if you put larger wheels on with the standard motor, because when the car gets airborne and then lands whichever wheels hit the ground last are re-synced to the road speed through the drivetrain by the wheels on the ground and that can put massive loads on the drivetrain, especially if the wheels are large in diameter and heavy (= more torque generated).

I've done both a powerful brushless motor (about 8x the power of the standard motor) and big wheels (+30% diameter, probably twice the weight of standard wheels) to a TT02B and pretty much immediately stripped the plastic differential gears. Since then it's got GPM steel differential gears front and rear, in addition to the steel propellor joints, aluminium propellor shaft and steel universal driveshafts it's had from day one. Even now, I can see the steel driveshafts are going to be a consumable item - every 5-10 battery packs they are going to require rebuilding or replacing. It would be much more economical to just buy a Traxxas Slash, but where's the fun in that? . I like the challenge of working out which combination of parts to use to keep it semi-reliable, and fixing it when it does break. My suspension is still standard plastic hubs and lower arms from the kit - it has taken a few heavy crashes and nothing has broken yet, maybe I'm just lucky. I suspect eventually I'll break a hub - only when that happens I'll consider upgrading to aluminium hubs.

This is it - you can see how much it bogs down in the grass compared to asphalt: only about 35-45kmh in the ~2-3" grass compared to 60kmh+ on asphalt. A completely standard, brushed motor TT02B only goes about 20-25kmh on asphalt and has half the ground clearance, so it would probably wouldn't even move on this grass.

 

You said you have to rebuild the driveshafts every 5-10 packs. What knd are you using? I use the tamiya universals and ever since i added the tamiya axle rings 54623 i havent had any issues.  Im running a castle 4600kv combo too

[jonboy1 2943]

Lunchbox

#boom

[TurnipJF 9192]

The TT-02B can be turned into a fun and reliable car, but I'd argue that it has too many issues out of the box to make it suited to a raw beginner. 

How about a DF-01 Manta Ray? Apart from the propshaft and motor mount it is pretty solid out of the box, with better ground clearance than the TT-02B. The propshaft and motor mount upgrades are available as a set from Tamiya, are easy to fit thanks to having proper instructions and don't cost the earth.

[Greenhorny 6]

On 9/1/2019 at 10:00 PM, Juggular said:

Samurais start with bamboo swords

I didn't mean to upgrade it right from the beginning. I just wanted to be sure to get a good basic-model to start with and that is good for tuning later on.

3 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

The TT-02B can be turned into a fun and reliable car, but I'd argue that it has too many issues out of the box to make it suited to a raw beginner. 

What do you mean? The building? The Neo Scorcher is said to be a model easy to build. Or do you mean the "issues" it probably brings with because it isn't solid enough for the motor out of the box?

And if that were the case, I'd like to know DK308' opinion

8 hours ago, DK308 said:

I base my suggestions on the fact that some things may get you going, but the initial experience will be so much better with things that work properly.

The posts so far gave me the impression, the Neo Scorcher would be ready to go out of the box, apart maybe from the ball bearings, that should be replaced. I thought, that all the must haves you've listed refered to tuning (stronger motor, bigger tires...). But maybe I got that wrong. If it were so, what would you recommend as an useful and reasonable upgrade for the NS out of the box. It's not (yet) about tuning, but to make the whole construction only solid enough to bear the power of the standard motor and the off-road driving.

[TurnipJF 9192]

4 minutes ago, Greenhorny said:

What do you mean? The building? The Neo Scorcher is said to be a model easy to build. Or do you mean the "issues" it probably brings with because it isn't solid enough for the motor out of the box?

I refer to the upgrade path required to make it reliable enough to survive spirited driving even with the stock motor. The build itself is dead easy even for complete beginners. 

[Juggular 4964]

Factor in, that many members are 747 pilots (metaphorically).  You haven't flown yet.  No pilot starts with 747.  We start with a Piper cub (Tamiya Grasshopper. Though Piper Cub was also called "Grasshopper" in the Army).  

Of course 747 pilots would be talking about approaching sound barrier with a head wind, nose down.  But Piper cub can't go near the sound barrier.  

When I started out, in 1985 or so, I thought Grasshopper was the greatest invention (not the airplane, Tamiya buggy).  Then you drive other things and learn more.  Only then you question the bump steer of single wishbone suspension.  

My DF02 has metal diff gears already, the only things added were aluminum shocks.  It'll do fine without those.  

The reason why you see differing opinion is "60kph." 

We go nuts over how to make that happen.  You would need upgrades to strengthen parts if you are going to cartwheel at 60kph.  I also avoid aluminum drive cups and drive shafts.  They have to deal with much stronger Steel pins.  Steel vs aluminum, steel always wins.  Glass re-enforced plastic may give a little and could last a while.    

Again, it's no joke when you lose control of a fast-moving RC car.  (below is faster and heavier than TT02B)  But the point is the same: take it slow and focus on gaining RC experience, instead of focusing on hardware.  When you have more experience, you can do everything experienced guys are talking about. 

The way this injured guy was swerving?  If he was more experienced, he would have cut the throttle and started over at the first time he wasn't going straight.  You just can't overcompensate at high speed.  This is why we novices with 60kph mods might not be a good idea.  Unless you have a reason to quit RC in 6 months, take time.  No need to hurry. 

You'll do everything you want to do.  It will just take a bit of time and experience.    

 

[DK308 219]

29 minutes ago, Juggular said:

Factor in, that many members are 747 pilots (metaphorically).  You haven't flown yet.  No pilot starts with 747.  We start with a Piper cub (Tamiya Grasshopper. Though Piper Cub was also called "Grasshopper" in the Army).  

Of course 747 pilots would be talking about approaching sound barrier with a head wind, nose down.  But Piper cub can't go near the sound barrier.  

When I started out, in 1985 or so, I thought Grasshopper was the greatest invention (not the airplane, Tamiya buggy).  Then you drive other things and learn more.  Only then you question the bump steer of single wishbone suspension.  

My DF02 has metal diff gears already, the only things added were aluminum shocks.  It'll do fine without those.  

The reason why you see differing opinion is "60kph." 

We go nuts over how to make that happen.  You would need upgrades to strengthen parts if you are going to cartwheel at 60kph.  I also avoid aluminum drive cups and drive shafts.  They have to deal with much stronger Steel pins.  Steel vs aluminum, steel always wins.  Glass re-enforced plastic may give a little and could last a while.    

Again, it's no joke when you lose control of a fast-moving RC car.  (below is faster and heavier than TT02B)  But the point is the same: take it slow and focus on gaining RC experience, instead of focusing on hardware.  When you have more experience, you can do everything experienced guys are talking about. 

The way this injured guy was swerving?  If he was more experienced, he would have cut the throttle and started over at the first time he wasn't going straight.  You just can't overcompensate at high speed.  This is why we novices with 60kph mods might not be a good idea.  Unless you have a reason to quit RC in 6 months, take time.  No need to hurry. 

You'll do everything you want to do.  It will just take a bit of time and experience.    

 

This guy was doing 160, not 60.

I think you make some good points. I will say that a rig that tops out at 50-60 is managable, and it will run quite a bit less offroad.

Sometimes I see people give up on the kits because a lot of the rtr stuff out there is faster, and thus more appealing or more exciting. This is why I have a tendency to reccommend cars that are a bit challenging, even down the line. A brushless TT02B or DF02 is a great rig. No if's or but's, it just is. 

Will I say start out with a 3S TT02B and a 4800 kv motor? No, not at all. But a DF02 or TT02B with a 3100-3500 kv motor on 2S is both manageable and fun. It'll run an honest 35-40 offroad and can be pushed to 50+ on road.

There is a chance that a stock aTT02B or DF02 won't cut it. Yes, I've done this since 1989, but even considering that, I don't think my notion that a bit of speed helps keeping interest in the beginning, and that's important.

I think we can do good by not saying "don't go too fast", but rather help by finding a balance. We can deduct from the op's questions and posts, that speed is somewhat important.

The reason why I initially suggested the DF02 is because it is very much brushless ready. The TT02B is far from that, but it can be. I chose a TT02B over a DF02 because I liked the idea of upgrading it myself with the parts I wanted. I did break everything I upgraded, but I knew it would happen. I was a bit shocked about how short the diffs lasted though. I sort of expected more than 2 packs out of them. The DF02 is a better rig out of the box, so I tend to favour that as a recommendation.

 Lastly for those who say 2wd is more fun. There's a simple solution I use sometimes that works fine on both the DF02 and TT02B. Remove the front diff if you want to have some 2wd fun. Remove the rear diff if you want a bit of FWD fun. That's the beauty of two diff cars with no center diff. You can enjoy both 4wd and 2wd.

A DF02 with a 10.5T motor is a great overall platform, and it has enough hopups to keep it interesting.

 

[DK308 219]

3 hours ago, Greenhorny said:

I didn't mean to upgrade it right from the beginning. I just wanted to be sure to get a good basic-model to start with and that is good for tuning later on.

What do you mean? The building? The Neo Scorcher is said to be a model easy to build. Or do you mean the "issues" it probably brings with because it isn't solid enough for the motor out of the box?

And if that were the case, I'd like to know DK308' opinion

The posts so far gave me the impression, the Neo Scorcher would be ready to go out of the box, apart maybe from the ball bearings, that should be replaced. I thought, that all the must haves you've listed refered to tuning (stronger motor, bigger tires...). But maybe I got that wrong. If it were so, what would you recommend as an useful and reasonable upgrade for the NS out of the box. It's not (yet) about tuning, but to make the whole construction only solid enough to bear the power of the standard motor and the off-road driving.

What I mean is that the Neo Scorcher will need some upgrades out of the box to be reliable - and that includes more than ball bearings.

With the stock brushed motor, it'll run 25-30 kph, that's it. And if you take it on grass or rough roads, it's less.

If we boil it down to the bare essentials to get it to run 40+ offroad and last for more than 3 packs, these parts are 110% must haves. No if's or but's.

GPM diffs front and rear. 

Yeah Racing adjustable motor mount.

Full GPM or Yeah Racing turnbuckle set.

GPM high torque servo saver.

Ball bearing kit(rubber sealed)

Everything else yoh can replace down the line. But these things are what the model needs to run well and reliable, especially when brushless.

When it comes to the GPM diff gears you can save a bit by not getting the internal diff gears. This is what I've done. I use the plastic gears inside my diffs, but I use the GPM steel ring and pinion diff gears. Those are the weakest link in the TT02B driveline.

Where are you located?

[taffer 948]

Still think Dt02 sand viper is better

Had them from launch around 2005/6, really strong and durable, only needs additional ball bearings and steel pinions, can handle jumps, brushless setups, easy maintenance, easy body to paint and sticker, yes it's 2wd but helps a beginner learn acceleration control as well, I would recommend over a dt03 because the newer model has a weaker chassis in the event of a crash.

Tt02b was a fun build but too many comprises, this is where a rere 4wd (manta ray, boomerang etc) as a second buggy after the viper is a good path......doing this you get a 4wd that contains a bit of history, a more involved build and it only needs a super stock to get the best out of it.

From here onwards the konghead 6wd then provide an extra dimension etc.

If you still want more speed, best to look elsewhere!

@Greenhorny has stated he has no rc at the moment, I've known a few people start from scratch, some struggle even with a Rising Fighter!

[nbTMM 433]

16 hours ago, Rb4276 said:

You said you have to rebuild the driveshafts every 5-10 packs. What knd are you using? I use the tamiya universals and ever since i added the tamiya axle rings 54623 i havent had any issues.  Im running a castle 4600kv combo too

Yeah racing universals. The dog bone drive pins and differential outdrives/cups don't like the torque. They get worn down and bend. I've also had the grub screws come loose on a shaft twice which causes the pin at that end to slide out, first time it locked up the wheel/shaft solid, the car cartwheeled and snapped the shaft at the universal joint. Second time it just mangled the pin (car still ran, but I noticed a clattering sound) and I was able rebuild the shaft by grinding a flat on a new pin. Thankfully both pins on the shafts are just standard pins like wheel hexes use, which I have plenty of. 
I think the demise of the last shaft was that the dog bone end was able to pull out too far when the wheel drooped which makes it ride on the 'knife edge' part of the slot in the drive cup, causing excessive and uneven wear, making it vibrate more than normal which shakes the grub screw loose and mangles that pin too. I've now cambered the wheels so that the shafts are inserted into the cup as far as possible without bottoming out when the suspension is compressed, and stepped up from blue to red loctite on the grub screws which should hopefully solve that problem. The differential drive cups also see wear - Yeah Racing cups and the Tamiya ones that came with a TT02 Type S are not immune to being impressioned by the pins.
Turning down the punch on the ESC would probably also help but I won't resort to that yet as popping wheelies is fun . 

9 hours ago, Greenhorny said:

The posts so far gave me the impression, the Neo Scorcher would be ready to go out of the box, apart maybe from the ball bearings, that should be replaced. I thought, that all the must haves you've listed refered to tuning (stronger motor, bigger tires...). But maybe I got that wrong. If it were so, what would you recommend as an useful and reasonable upgrade for the NS out of the box. It's not (yet) about tuning, but to make the whole construction only solid enough to bear the power of the standard motor and the off-road driving.

Yes, should be good to go out of the box and give you plenty of maintenance free running when built with a ball bearing set. The issues mostly come when you start upgrading it to go faster than standard, or crash it hard. Even if you keep it 'stock', parts will eventually wear out or break, and no RC car is immune to that. Replacements are especially cheap right now for a TT02B because it is a very popular kit and most parts are plastic. If you break a plastic part you just purchase the relevant 'parts tree' for a few dollars, and then you have spares of everything else on that tree. The part numbers for everything are in the back of the instruction manual so you can just punch in the number of the part you need into ebay or your local hobby shop to buy replacements.

[TurnipJF 9192]

1 hour ago, nbTMM said:

Yes, should be good to go out of the box and give you plenty of maintenance free running when built with a ball bearing set. 

That depends very much on how one drives it. On the flat, you can get a fair bit of use out of the stock drivetrain. Jump it however, and you can quickly shred the stock rear diff ring gear and pinion even with the stock silver can motor. 

[Saito2 6686]

1 hour ago, taffer said:

Still think Dt02 sand viper is better

I normally recommend vintage/re-release but I'm going to agree with Taffer on this one. The Sand Viper DT02 variant even comes with bearings in the kit in my market. That means it only needs a steel pinion to be all set.

The thing to remember is that many Tamiyas sadly come flawed out-of-the box. While some folks get lucky and experience no issues with certain models, most others find the same reoccurring flaws. The TT02B eats the stock rear diff ring gear as mentioned. The Monster Beetle (re-re) has diff and driveshaft issues at times. I'd recommend the Manta Ray over the TT02B any day of the week, but, it too, has flaws. The alloy motor mount/driveshaft upgrade has already been mentioned but the all-plastic gearset should also be installed from the outset on the DF01. I can see where this would be a maze for the beginner to navigate. 

Fortunately, some Tamiyas are foolproof. The Lunch Box/Grasshopper/Hornet cars are mostly without any glaring flaws. The Blitzer series seems fine.  Despite complexity, the Hot Shot series is pretty rugged. The DT02 is also problem free.

[taffer 948]

18 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

I normally recommend vintage/re-release but I'm going to agree with Taffer on this one. The Sand Viper DT02 variant even comes with bearings in the kit in my market. That means it only needs a steel pinion to be all set.

The thing to remember is that many Tamiyas sadly come flawed out-of-the box. While some folks get lucky and experience no issues with certain models, most others find the same reoccurring flaws. The TT02B eats the stock rear diff ring gear as mentioned. The Monster Beetle (re-re) has diff and driveshaft issues at times. I'd recommend the Manta Ray over the TT02B any day of the week, but, it too, has flaws. The alloy motor mount/driveshaft upgrade has already been mentioned but the all-plastic gearset should also be installed from the outset on the DF01. I can see where this would be a maze for the beginner to navigate. 

Fortunately, some Tamiyas are foolproof. The Lunch Box/Grasshopper/Hornet cars are mostly without any glaring flaws. The Blitzer series seems fine.  Despite complexity, the Hot Shot series is pretty rugged. The DT02 is also problem free.

@Saito2

yes the holiday buggy and sand rover dt02 front body mounts are a little weak but the sand viper has a short front body post.

Yes I think the sand viper comes with enough bearings except for 8x 1150 for the wheels? For extra strength I used to change the front and rear upper arms to the solid plastic items of the holiday buggy etc.

Its very easy when you have experience to tell people various flaws etc are easy to overcome but i have found a lot of new people struggle with understanding to centre the servo, tightening the pinion of the flat part of the motor shaft etc etc especially when they are left by themselves to try and figure this out ( rather than someone like us to oversee!).

[DK308 219]

2 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

That depends very much on how one drives it. On the flat, you can get a fair bit of use out of the stock drivetrain. Jump it however, and you can quickly shred the stock rear diff ring gear and pinion even with the stock silver can motor. 

This.

Those gears are so weak, it's a joke.

And if one wants to go a bit faster, so what? 

Yes you can get the plastic diff gears cheap, but it's a bull**** solution. Anybody who's been into this hobby knows that nothing spoils the experience more than things suddenly breaking. What good is it that plastic gears sre dirt cheap if you bring 5 packs ho your fav spot, but you have to go home and order new gears after two packs? We know of a solution that will make the gears in the tt02b reliable, so it is very ill advised to reccommend bandaid solutions as they ruin the experience.

To the OP. 

If you decide to stick with the Neo Scorcher it's a good choice.

For the speeds you say, consider the options mentioned, as well as a brushless setup.

Personally I'd get the Absima 3421kv motor and mate it up to the Hobbywing 10bl120 esc.

Do the basic upgrades as suggested, and you'll be good to go.

The rest you can upgrade as it breaks or for fun down the line.

But steel ring and pinion diff gears, full turnbuckle set, Yeah Racing adjustable motor mou t and the servo saver are must haves. Part from the diff gears, the rest is pretty darn cheap stuff.

[Greenhorny 6]

12 hours ago, DK308 said:

Where are you located?

Switzerland

I feel a bit – or more than just a bit -overchallenged. I still think I'm going to get one of the classical resp. vintage models as a second model later on. And from what I learnt so far, Tamyia has probably the best of these kind of models. As soon as I 've got my first model and have collected some experience it probably will be easier to handle a built and upgrade with that second model.

But I really am not sure again, whether my first model will be a Tamyia one. 

But if it still was a Tamyia:

In case of a Neo Scorcher I at least know by now exactly what I need in addition to the kit. Thanks again to DK 308 for the list

19 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

How about a DF-01 Manta Ray?

In case of a Manta Ray, which is also a 4WD: the kit + the better propshaft and motor mount-set from Tamyia. Thanks to TurnipJF

And in case of a Sand Viper: 

5 hours ago, taffer said:

I'm going to agree with Taffer on this one. The Sand Viper DT02

Plus ball bearings and steel pinions. Thanks to Taffer and Saito2. 

Taffer, did I got it right: you also recommend stronger front upper arms and stronger front body mounts as well (or does it only concern the holiday buggy and sand rover?)

The only thing about the SV is, it's a 2WD.

And: you recommended other models that are flawless out of the box, but they are all 2WDers as well. 

5 hours ago, Saito2 said:

The Lunch Box/Grasshopper/Hornet cars are mostly without any glaring flaws.

What do you say about the Manta Ray, or does it belong to models with flaws?

[TurnipJF 9192]

2 hours ago, Greenhorny said:

What do you say about the Manta Ray, or does it belong to models with flaws?

The two flaws that need fixing out of the box (propshaft and motor mount) have been acknowledged and upgrades made available by Tamiya under part number 47373.

(This is in addition to the ball bearings and steel pinion which you will need to buy for the majority of Tamiyas.)

There are other things you can do to improve it further if you want to, such as fitting ballraced steering, all-plastic gears, bolt-through mod the rear gearbox cover, add turnbuckles, alloy hexes, bigger wing, alloy shocks, etc, all of which I have done to mine.

However all of these mods are to either improve tuning/adjustability options or enhance reliability for faster motors. None are essential out of the box for the stock motor.

[Juggular 4964]

1 hour ago, Greenhorny said:

I feel a bit – or more than just a bit -overchallenged.

lol... yep.  

I also try to research 1000% before I buy anything (even when buying popcorn kernels).  Good things last. I'm still using Krups espresso machine that I bought 26 years ago.  With some tender loving care, Tamiya will last too.  

Every Tamiya model has a flaw or two.  Don't worry about them too much.  They are parts to address those flaws.  Get what you like to look at, run it for a week.  No matter what you buy, folks like @DK308 will help you sort things out.  I agree with him on 3000-3500kv.  That's not a crazy upgrade.  Everybody does some speed upgrade.  Simply, take your time getting into faster speed, if you can't control the car coming at you.  All of us have jumped over a buggy coming at us because we turned left when right turn was required.  

The diff gears should be replaced with metal gears.  A lot depends on your driving habit and terrain also.  If you drive on loose gravel where it's almost impossible to somersault, upper arms would last.  If you drive on pavement and flip the buggy all the time, they'd break every other time.  That's why you hear different testimony.  

Manta Ray also has single beam upper arms.  But the front shocks are longer than TT02B.  Absorb shocks better, the buggy can stay on the ground better.  Which is why you don't hear much about upper arms breaking on Manta Ray. 

My biggest problem with Manta Ray was that it's not much to look at.  

But you come to Tamiya Club, and see how other people painted the same body.  

@Ferruz did a 100 times better job than mine. (below)  

@TankPaintballer also did a better job than Tamiya's stock paint scheme.   

I'm not trying to force you to get Manta Ray, though many would agree that it's a better buggy.  The point is, you can turn an ugly duckling like Manta Ray into a beauty.  And many flaws can be fixed with just $10-$20. 

So, if TT02B is to your liking, get it.  You can fix the flaws.  You can also get different bodies.  If you like DF02, get that and put on a body that fits it.  

Or if you really want a bomb-proof buggy, you can get a big Traxxas. If you learn to land on all 4 tires, it will survive almost any fall.  

 

[Saito2 6686]

4 hours ago, Greenhorny said:

Plus ball bearings and steel pinions. Thanks to Taffer and Saito2. 

Taffer, did I got it right: you also recommend stronger front upper arms and stronger front body mounts as well (or does it only concern the holiday buggy and sand rover?)

The US market Sand Viper DT02s come with a full set of ball bearings. The stronger front body mount is in reference to the Holiday Buggy DT02 and Sand Rover DT02. The lexan bodied Sand Viper has no problems. The stock Sand Viper uses adjustable upper links (for camber angle adjustment, if desired). The Holiday Buggy/Sand Rover use larger, non-adjustable upper arms. While the non-adjustable upper arms are "stronger", the standard adjustable upper links found in the Sand Viper do not make the suspension overly weak or flawed. Really, other than a steel pinion gear, the Sand Viper is a trouble-free beginner car.

Like I mentioned earlier, some Tamiya vehicles are flawed out of the box. Others are not. I consider a Tamiya to be flawed if it fails rapidly under proper, normal use in stock form. For example, if you built and properly assembled a Monster Beetle re-release there is a high probability you would have driveshaft and/or differential gear problems during normal driving within the first 12 battery packs/runs. I find this unacceptable, particularly for a beginner. A Sand Viper will give no problems unless it is crashed repeatedly or driven without respect. Even at that point, the Sand Viper is pretty durable and would cope well. There are other Tamiyas that fit that criteria as well.

[SuperChamp82 743]

This thread shows why TC is by far the best forum for anyone new to the hobby 👍

Everyone here really cares, a lot were new themselves in recent years (so they’ve been there / done it with current sellers / kit) and there are still quite a few old lags who dip in / out to offer a longer term view.

It also shows why there’s almost never a right answer - noting preemptively hopping up a TT02B is a curated art vs seeing what breaks on a DF03 out of the box 😂

Completely understandable if all this a bit overwhelming @Greenhorny - so just go with your gut and focus on having fun !

One of the best parts of our hobby is that learning doesn’t (generally) carry a huge price tag - and is fairly easily rectified by adapting (or swapping) newer kits. 

You’ll also earn your own war stories to trade with the rest of us when stuff inevitably doesn’t go quite to plan ...

Enjoy sir !

[taffer 948]

34 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

The US market Sand Viper DT02s come with a full set of ball bearings. The stronger front body mount is in reference to the Holiday Buggy DT02 and Sand Rover DT02. The lexan bodied Sand Viper has no problems. The stock Sand Viper uses adjustable upper links (for camber angle adjustment, if desired). The Holiday Buggy/Sand Rover use larger, non-adjustable upper arms. While the non-adjustable upper arms are "stronger", the standard adjustable upper links found in the Sand Viper do not make the suspension overly weak or flawed. Really, other than a steel pinion gear, the Sand Viper is a trouble-free beginner car.

Like I mentioned earlier, some Tamiya vehicles are flawed out of the box. Others are not. I consider a Tamiya to be flawed if it fails rapidly under proper, normal use in stock form. For example, if you built and properly assembled a Monster Beetle re-release there is a high probability you would have driveshaft and/or differential gear problems during normal driving within the first 12 battery packs/runs. I find this unacceptable, particularly for a beginner. A Sand Viper will give no problems unless it is crashed repeatedly or driven without respect. Even at that point, the Sand Viper is pretty durable and would cope well. There are other Tamiyas that fit that criteria as well.

The sand viper upper arms replacement opinion is in reference to tc member super gripper who I think used to club race his Dt02 desert gator (same as same viper, diff body) and he used to post pictures showing after multiple jumps the adjustable upper links used to break the plastic slots they attached to.

From that point onward myself and my nephew always installed the fixed upper arms which proved to be bullet proof while jumping with a castle 4600kv brushless!

It's a pity the thunder shot chassis cars have not had another production run, after fitting the A5 steel support plate it's a much nicer buggy and fewer problems than the manta ray!

[MockTurtle 239]

29 minutes ago, SuperChamp82 said:

@Greenhorny - so just go with your gut and focus on having fun !

+100. Once you get hooked, you will probably end up with all the models mentioned here anyways.