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Greenhorny

What model to start

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7 minutes ago, Greenhorny said:

Grasshopper and Hornet may be nice, but are RWD and I go for 4WD.

But anyway:

Manta Ray; it's sold out and isn't produced anymore. I checked it out and I could only find 2 or 3 shops (in Switzerland, Austria and Germany), that have one left to sell.

One of the shops told me, if I liked the Manta Ray, they could recommended also the Top Force. I looked at it and it seems to be a nice one, but: it has ball diffs and you guys "advised highly" to stay away from this.

 

 

The Top Force is near the top of my wishlist, probably the top, so take what i say with a bucket of salt.

Get it.

Seriously though, its the way better looking, FRP chassis, adjustable Manta Ray. It has no real downside from the Manta Ray as those diffs can be replaced and its so pretty. If you were in NZ I would be asking where the Top Force is in stock and advising against you buying it. It will cost a bit more but I think thats worth it.

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45 minutes ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

it has ball diffs and you guys "advised highly" to stay away from this.

I will say one thing about the Top Force ball diffs. As far as ball diffs go, in general,  they are fool proof to adjust. In fact, you really don't adjust them, you just tighten them down fully as per the manual and are done. 

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As I said: in case I got a Tamiya, it will definitely be the Manta Ray or the Top Force.

So one of my very last concerns regarding "what model": I'm not going to tune the car from the beginning, but maybe I'll do it later. But in case it is going to be a brushless, there could be a problem with the Top Force as this one has rear and front ball diffs.

No I'm thinking about whether it must be a brushless one at all? It is for off-road fun and not for high-speed racing. I'm thinking about a brush motor - such as the Tamiya Super-Stock BZ 23T or another brush one. The mentioned one makes 2'650rpm (and has been designed for off-road). A german trader, which has quite a good reputation told me , with that motor, the ball diffs wouldn't be a problem, in contrary to a stronger brushless.

Does anyone have experience with such a motor? How big would be the difference it mades compared to the stock motor? I don't want a rocket but only a bit more power and speed. + 6 mph / 10kmh would be already nice.

 

 

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The super stock range of motors are very good, look great and perform well.

They are my hop up choice for rere buggies!

With some careful shopping you should be able to get a new one between £25-£35 depending on current eBay deals, I normally pay close to £30 Inc shipping.

Shame they don't have ball bearings only bushings but when paired with the correct pinion should give enough torque and speed to remain exciting

(The smaller the space you run the faster any motor seems to be! 🤣)

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On 9/6/2019 at 8:58 AM, Greenhorny said:

Grasshopper and Hornet may be nice, but are RWD and I go for 4WD.

But anyway:

Manta Ray; it's sold out and isn't produced anymore. I checked it out and I could only find 2 or 3 shops (in Switzerland, Austria and Germany), that have one left to sell.

One of the shops told me, if I liked the Manta Ray, they could recommended also the Top Force. I looked at it and it seems to be a nice one, but: it has ball diffs and you guys "advised highly" to stay away from this.

 

 

I am surprised that the Manta Ray re-release sold out so fast. It was only released a short while ago!

Not a problem though, if you like the looks of the Top Force but would prefer to avoid ball diffs, DF-01 gear diffs are available separately and are a direct fit.

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I'm going to echo what other members said already: Top Force is a good choice.  

As mentioned, I usually go for Sport Tuned... but for Top Force?  It deserves to have something more, and Super Stock is fitting.    

But it's a fairly hot motor.  Under load, it's quite similar to 13.5t (2800kv or so).  I think you could have a problem with rear diff eventually.  As other members said, when that happens, you can just replace the rear diff with geared diff. DF01 diff gears should be easy enough to find.  The front ball diff should be fine, because it's the rear that gets a lot of load when accelerating.  

 

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2 hours ago, Greenhorny said:

No I'm thinking about whether it must be a brushless one at all? It is for off-road fun and not for high-speed racing. I'm thinking about a brush motor - such as the Tamiya Super-Stock BZ 23T or another brush one.

True. There is no reason it has to be brushless. Super Stocks motors a fairly potent and torquey. If you do want brushless (perhaps for the reduced maintenance factor), not all brushless systems are insane power. A 17.5 or 13.5 would seem reasonable. There's also the consideration that a rear ball diff offers a little bit of "give" in the drivetrain to reduce shock on the rest of the gears. This is especially of consideration as the DF01 doesn't have a slipper. I theorize this is why Tamiya began putting ball diffs in the rear of other DF01/TA derived vehicles after the Manta Ray to prolong the drivetrain. @TA-Mark ran a Mamba 5700 (quite potent) in his DF01 and got it to hold together. 

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Struggling slightly with putting brushless / sensored power in anything other than TRF to be honest guys ?

Most Tamiya kits simply aren’t made for lightspeed out of the box - and are inevitably a compromise even when hopped.

Even the DF03 won’t handle ludicrous  power properly. And the best DT02 will flail if you put a tiger in its tanks. 

Whoever said that top-end 540 cans provide way more than most can competitively drive was also spot on.

For 90kph back yard lunacy you can spend 4x the cost of a Traxxas pimping Tamiya - which may be expensive fun to be fair - or just stick to what the brand always promised 😇

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I have gone upto a 5700kv castle sensorless in the Dt02 with no huge issues.

I did buy a laser temperature gun, it did detect a large rise in temperature but it did stay in range, you would not be able to run battery pack after pack though, a cool down was required.

The hopup thick metal motor plate and motor heatsink was used also

With this much power, damp sand proved to be the best surface for running but other surfaces like tarmac responded better with wheel weights loaded on the front nose to help prevent spin outs 

It was fun to push it to these limits but prolonged driving got boring because of the need to find huge spaces to run in.

Punch had to be set on zero to stop the metal drive shafts twisting and acceleration curve had to be minimised to the slowest gradient to enable control. All this happened ten years or so ago, still have no desire to revisit all that!

I've seen many cheaper brushless systems not cope with lesser situations but you get what you pay for to a certain degree!

Ps the db01 coped equally well with a castle 7700kv setup but again needed too large an environment to enjoy properly!

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49 minutes ago, SuperChamp82 said:

Struggling slightly with putting brushless / sensored power in anything other than TRF to be honest guys ?

Why wouldn't you? Sensored brushless systems don't need to be monstrously powerful. A 21.5t sensored brushless on zero timing is not much different to a silver can, and not many people would call that overpowered.

A typical brushless system requires less maintenance and gives better runtimes than its brushed equivalent by virtue of being more efficient, so unless you are going for period appropriateness in a vintage car, or are likely to be soaking the thing (sensored brushless systems are seldom waterproof), I see no reason why you wouldn't consider brushless in any Tamiya, TRF or otherwise. Just choose the spec appropriate to the chassis. 

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9 minutes ago, TurnipJF said:

Why wouldn't you? Sensored brushless systems don't need to be monstrously powerful. A 21.5t sensored brushless on zero timing is not much different to a silver can, and not many people would call that overpowered

True - and delicacy / poise is always great.

If you read the rest of what I said for context, it reflected the rest of the thread i.e. over power.

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Soon comes the day I'll order my first model.

It's going to be the Manta Ray or the Top Shot (or Top Shot Evo). My favourite is the Top Shot (or Top Shot Evo).

There is only one favour left I ask you for concerning the question: what model? I ask all the members involved in this thread so far to give my one short vote in the following manner:

"Manta Ray"              or

"Top Shot (Evo)"       or

"both of them/doesn't matter"

 

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Manta ray

Cheaper and seemingly discontinued? Parts will be around for years though

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It doesn't matter as there isn't too much in it, but personally I would get the Top Force. Better looking and it is more capable out of the box

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Both good choices.

If you are thinking of entering the classic racing scene one day, Top Force as it has more performance potential out of the box

If you want a car purely for fun, Manta Ray as it is simpler and more reliable.

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So it is finally done.

I ordered my very first RC-Car! With the help of the advice from this forum and my German retailer.You know that towards the end of my search, I was fluctuating between the Manta Ray and the Top Force and it turned out to be the Top Force. The additionally ordered upgrades include: Ball bearings from Carson for TA-01, Manta Ray, Top F., Steel pinion from Tamya (19Z M0.6 STAHL DF-02) and Motormount Alu Tamiya (TA-01, TA-02, TA-02SW)

For it's my first model to build, I'll also get a small set of (missing) tools for the building.I guess I will have the car by the end of the next week and hope, I I'll be able to handle the building.

Thank you again for your advice so far

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