Jump to content
Saito2

Candid discussion about Tamiya #1

Recommended Posts

In the 80's, Tamiya had a video of testing their RC models thoroughly.  That wasn't done for Juggernaut 1.  I'd put Terra Crusher on blacklist too.  Mad Bison on gray list.  

On white list, Wild Willy 2.  To me, that was what Tamiya was all about.  Detailed, relatively robust, slow, but fun.  Wild Willy 1 couldn't have oil shocks, but instead of being disappointed, I liked it better.  I complained about Tamiya lagging behind MST CMX.  But at the same time, I'm glad Tamiya owns the "funky RC" market: wheelie vehicles, comical and 3 wheeled and mini Lunchbox, etc.  Even as I crave DT04, DF04, M09, I think the funky RC is where the Tamiya spirit is (even though I bought none of comical, etc... WW2 is enough).  Without that, Tamiya would be similar to MST.

Everybody expects different things.  Initially, it's the speed. I had Porsche 956 which had a 380 motor.  Everybody wants more power, including myself.  I installed a 540 motor, it was really fun.  "Wow, it's an entirely different car!"  ...until I raced.  Everybody had 540 motors, so I thought I had to have 540.  But everybody overshot corners.  After a while, it dawned on me; 540 was faster than I could handle.  I put the 380 back on, and I could actually finish the track faster with a slower car.  Talk about tortoise vs hare...

Even though I am not racing, that control issue kinda stuck with me.  If you are looking at things from control perspective, Lunchbox is horrible.  It's so tipsy.  But if you think it's supposed to roll, then you get to enjoy it.  Fast forward 30+ years, I'm not using 380.  It's all Sport Tuned, about 3000kv at most.  That seems to be my comfort range.  And within that mild range, most of the Tamiyas do fine.  

That said, if you have a huge open space, 30kph will look like a snail's pace.  Definitely, 4000kv motor would be the better option.  Even in the same parking lot, if there are cars parked and you have to be careful, suddenly, it's just way too fast.  It all depends on perspective.  I think one of the good things about Tamiya is that it gives us so many options.  None of them are best in their category.  But the range is wide enough for us to stick with Tamiya and not miss Traxxas terribly.  

Tamiya doesn't even want to be the "best."  If they were, they would include shiny hex screws.  Top models from other brands have them.  They just look so professional!  But I prefer JIS.  Tightening a M3 screw with 3mm hex gives you less torque than 5mm contact area of JIS.  Simple, robust, but kinda ugly.  But Tamiya RC wants to go for "Easily Approachable RC."  For that, JIS works.   

It sounds silly, but drivers became important to me.  You don't find detailed drivers from Traxxas.  For Tamiya, scale models come first. We love how they make accurate representation of the real cars, instead of something that looks a bit off.  Driver is a reminder that it is scaled version.  If Terra Crusher had a driver, that might have changed my expectation.  Just as @speedy_w_beans said, I should have expected it to drive like 1/8 version of a real truck.  Instead, I expected it to perform like T-Maxx:  No real truck could fall off a cliff like T-Maxx does and runs fine. Nothing could crawl up an 8 foot tall boulder either. (Maybe Unimog could?) 

Tamiya RC falls one or two steps closer to static kits than "real RC" like Traxxas or Arrma.  Perhaps the "flaws" come from the fact that we are asking a kit maker like Airfix, Revell or Italeri to build RC cars and expect them to perform like Traxxas.  

 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Butler said:

With a decent JIS driver I have never had an issue. I have stripped more hex screws for sure, although I have a cheap hex driver.

1000% Agree. It's arguable that cross head screws actually have more contact area, especially at these small sizes. A hex driver will invariable rotate a tiny amount inside the screw heady which greatly reduces the surface area touching. Hex is more critical of tool quality too.

17 hours ago, markbt73 said:

Let's see a return to "models suitable for radio control.

The only issue I have with statements like this is that the whole model on wheels thing only applied to a small selection of vehicles and even then, only a handful were truly model kits on wheels such as the XR311 and Cheetah. I believe the first lexan shell was only number 21 or so.

In terms of mechanicals, the early on-road chassis were no different to any other brand in terms of realism, it was only really the body shells.

There were some other very nice models along the way but few were as detailed (or fragile) as the XR/Cheetah and I love models such as Blackfoot and Lunchbox for their looks but their chassis were in no way scale of lifelike. You could put a Blackfoot body on a contemporary Traxxas Sledgehammer chassis and have a 2x more capable vehicle with no loss of realism.

I find the argument that Tamiya stuff is dynamically lacking because their focus was realism to be flawed. It suggests they were never trying to be competitive because it wasn't their "thing" which I feel is wholly untrue. They were fiercely competitive in the buggy segment for a while but they just fell more and more behind. You can't argue that an Avante lacked competitiveness because it was more focused on realism.

The SRB chassis was one of the few early examples or true realism UNDER the body but Kyosho had a similar chassis with similar realism that handled way better. I'm just not convinced that the lack of dynamic ability in Tamiya models can be excused by their attention to detail. The two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I think the simple truth is that Kyosho made a better chassis just like the Opyima was better than the Avante.

The truth is you can take most Tamiya bodies and put them on a Traxxas/Arrma/MST etc chassis and get a much better performing vehicle without sacrificing any of the realism the Tamiya possessed.

There's no reason whatsoever that Tamiya couldn't introduce a more dynamically capable family of chassis without sacrificing their identity.

I'm not saying they need to be capable of running a 6s brushless setup at 70mph but then, I seldom drive my Taxxas or other modern vehicles at those speeds either. There has to be some kind of middle ground. It really doesn't require that much of an open space for a vehicle powered by a 27t 540 to seem slow. 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Juggular said:

Everybody expects different things.  Initially, it's the speed. I had Porsche 956 which had a 380 motor.  Everybody wants more power, including myself.  I installed a 540 motor, it was really fun.  "Wow, it's an entirely different car!"  ...until I raced.  Everybody had 540 motors, so I thought I had to have 540.  But everybody overshot corners.  After a while, it dawned on me; 540 was faster than I could handle.  I put the 380 back on, and I could actually finish the track faster with a slower car.  Talk about tortoise vs hare...

Do you mean a 936 sir - if so spot on 👍

And ditto battery life from those old packs. 

I think the 956 came with a blue 540SD ?

58 minutes ago, Juggular said:

Tamiya doesn't even want to be the "best."  If they were, they would include shiny hex screws.  Top models from other brands have them.  They just look so professional!  But I prefer JIS.  Tightening a M3 screw with 3mm hex gives you less torque than 5mm contact area of JIS.  Simple, robust, but kinda ugly.  But Tamiya RC wants to go for "Easily Approachable RC."  For that, JIS works.

Again, very true - although this is arguably back to the deliberately crap vs hop ups issue ? 

Its also a real irritant to the nostalgic engineers amongst us who appreciate the difference ... and who know it’s the lowest end of cheap 🙄

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The other thing to think of here is what is Tamiya’s target market ? The hard core or core rc group ?

Or people like me who walk into an Hobby shop to try and get parts for an old car to try and get it running. Find out they have re released the lunchbox and go “I’ve always wanted one of those” and buy it for nostalgia ?

Twice I have been out recently and people have come up to me and said “Thats fantastic I had one of those when I was  a kid”. When I tell them the cars have been rereleased both said “really, I’m getting one to build with my son”, which is what I did.

Some of those people might only run it for a couple of weeks then into the loft. So does it matter if the body mounting post is cracked and glued back on, or the diff is half way to breaking ?

Another two people close to my age where I work have said “oh I’ve got a Tamiya in the loft, I’m going to try and get it running to run with my kids”.

Clearly there is a market for people who had Tamiya cars when they were young, who now have kids, and have the disposable income to buy one.   (When I was a kid my dad did the same, but with Hornby train sets)

For next to zero development cost they can sell to that market, just get the stuff out of storage and do another production run. It’s  easy money compared to a full development cycle to do what, compete with Schumacher etc on racing circuit ? Or Traxxas for rtr ?

Tamiya board could easily decide it wasn’t worth the investment, so the odd tweak here and there maybe, but that’s it.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/5/2019 at 8:25 AM, DK308 said:

 

All in all I think it has to do with what to expect. Tamiya is an odd blend of toy grade and hobby grade. 

Tamiya is a hobby grade. Since day one. From the XR311, Rough Rider, Cheetah, Brat, Wild Willy, Astute, Avante, TB, TA, FF, to the newest TRF 420. Flawed or not, they were made for hobbyists and not to some kids who can just open a box, slap in some AA batteries, play and junk it in the storage after. Tamiya kits are required to be built/assembled. Even the Tamtech is a hobby grade line. While QD series is a mix of both toy and hobby grade. 

The classification is whether it's a pro racer or a basher type of RC. Tamiya was miles ahead compared to toy grde RCs such as Nikko and Traxxas when it released its first kits back in the 80s.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I had to recommend a first Tamiya RC to anyone it would definitely be the GF-01 Dump Truck. Other than those screws backing out occasionally that thing's SO. MUCH. FUN. If anyone looks at that and doesn't smile they're clearly dead on the inside. :blink:

Then, when the stock Tamiya motor gets boring put a 12T brushed motor & a 2S LiPo in it... that'll pep it up!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm basing my experience off the cars I own - TRF102, TA07Pro, TT02B, Boomerang, Monster Beetle, Novafox, HB D413, D418, D817v2 and Kyosho Lazer ZX6 amd RB6.6

The TRF cars are comparable to the best available from anyone. From what I've seen of other brands TRF cars are the best (Kyosho are similar, HB and Associated are awful compared to TRF). They are also up with the best around. 

The TA and TB cars are also very good. My TA07 has needed hopups to race but would be right at home out of the box in a street racing/bashing scenario. Out of the box they are great. There are the R and MS versions to race too

I absolutely agree that some of the entry cars have flaws. 

We run our Tamiya buggies in the backyard with a silvercan motor as thats the perfect speed for the backyard.  The race buggies are too fast for the backyard. Some cars are fine and the Boomerang is exceprional, but  I was so disappointed that the Monster Beetle had diff issues and bought the MIP diff which was expensive but a complete fix.

TT02B rear diffs are dumb and the DF02 diffs fix it

So really it depends on expectations.  Onroad there are a lot of options and no real complaints as the cars are amaizing. Off road is awful as Tamiya are so far behind unless you buy a Boomerang which is the pinnacle of RC 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree about some vehicles being fundamentally flawed. The Monster Beetle/Blackfoot is the most obvious example to me in terms of vehicles still being made.

It can't even handle stock power without the diff failing but just as bad is the fact that you basically have two choices out of the box: drive shafts that pop out or drive shafts that stay put but suspension that binds up mid travel. It amazes me that it went to market like that, especially when they had every chance to fix it!

We've seen that a threaded hole in one drive cup and a machine screw is enough to fix the diff problem by kebabbing the whole lot together so why couldn't Tamiya manage that? If mere mortals like us can come up with such a fix how come nobody at tamiya could? Even just an increase in plate thickness would have worked probably.

I will give credit where it's due though. There's a lot of Tamiya stuff out there that's fine for what it is. The DT02 and DT03 are perfectly acceptable buggies for fun and handle brushless fine. They do exhibit a facepalm design flaw as well though, I'm sure we're all familiar with the drive cups rubbing the suspension arms out of the box but that kind if corrects itself after a few runs lol.

The "newer" wheelie platforms are all fine at what they do as well. My GF01 handles a brushless just fine and it's a novelty vehicle so even with the stock motor the handling is not intended to be razor sharp.

I'd just like a decent off road truck platform really for MTs and such. All we have at the moment is the Mud Blaster 2 which is really showing it's age.

I don't know why people think a modern replacement that's a bit more happy going at 35mph or so would somehow mean it inherently lacked "soul" or Tamiya identity. The Traxxas Stampede is really not that different fundamentally. It's a double wishbone monster truck made of injection moulded plastic. The main difference is that it's just a much better design.

And with a decent body on, I don't think they look any less "soulful" or have any less personality than a Mud Blaster II

 

tra72024.thumb.jpg.a861dfaf31f016b37eb424d4087bd24c.jpg

a2acf10ace933e7f665da7375c944ff0-image.jpeg.e848515924bfdf90e087e1a9bec0b922.jpeg

Or even if you wanted to be more authentic, trucks like the MST MTX-1 have an authentic solid axle chassis and still handle more power and drive way better than a Mud Blaster II!

60575265_441140193317846_8444217246491949049_n.jpg.ca941088c8043169828bc3f89b7f2bf9.jpg

201710250937071a.thumb.jpg.6dfe248a39f2dbd2efec4aaed2a85003.jpg

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thought I've had for a while now, since the new Kyosho Outlaw came out, is that as cute as the new Comical series is, I would have rather seen an equivalent to what Hasbro/Takara did with their "masterpiece" range of transformers where they take the original product and use modern design and construction techniques to "remaster" the models and make them as good as they can be.

4075229597_684a96a839.jpg.14f7220bdd76d43ce326d982fdb2a482.jpg

I noticed the Outlaw has a solid axle like the Grasshopper but that the similarity went one step further and it actually has the motor on the axle too! But thanks for a proper rear suspension design, the back end doesn't lock up under power but actually works beautifully.

K-1.34361T1B_18.jpg.6ba8922354705ff54e080030eaceb5a4.jpg

I know some people prefer to be purist but I would have loved the Grasshopper body on a chassis like that a lot more than the "Comical" version. The same platform would of course also work for the Hornet and Lunchbox etc.

Imagine a Hopper with this suspension action:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2BudTIAbjw/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

I know the poor handling is part of the charm for some and I think the re-release should always be there but after converting my Lunchbox to 4 link, I cannot tell you how much fun it has been to drive! Rather than take away it's charm and character, it has just taken away the least desirable aspects. Does anyone really enjoy the walk of shame to flip their vehicle back over every 30 seconds? Or enjoy the fact that the Grasshopper can't really be driven on any terrain bumpier than gravel without flipping or if you're lucky, leaving the ground and facing a totally different direction when it lands.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see where a lot of you are coming from, but i feel the need to defend the tamiya off road stuff a bit. I got a DT03 to get me bqck into things 2 years ago and i have not regretted it once. Despite fiddling with it madly, ultimately you could run it out of the box but eith added bearing with fairly tasty brushless (3000-3500kv) and it would be good. When you learn a little and want to tinker, put stiffer rear springs on and some good front tyres and you have a proper handling buggy. It's really good. It's also really goid value. My kit was under 80 pounds, and the Neo Fighter is even cheaper. With a radio/battery bundle from the shop you would be up and running for 150 quid. Given how crap the FTX RTR £120 trucks my bro in law bought him and my nephew are, i thinkthe tamiya bears comparison. 

As for the future generations, having dismissed comicals initially i have a Vomical Hornet with 21t brushed and it is brilliant. Great looking, very attractive to kids, relatively easy build to get a bewbie going, handles MILLLLLLEEEESSSS better than a lunchbox or pumpkin or even the original hornet. On grass at a patk its just perfect for kids. Despite rolling it and crashibg it a few times it's still in one piece. Yes i think the intermediate off road level is dire (where is the buggy equivalent of a TA07 or TB05?!!!) but i don't think it's that bad. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thinking about it, I think there might also be a "don't meet your heroes" component to this. When you're young, gazing at guidebooks and reading magazine reviews, every single one of these cars is capable of blasting along effortlessly at 90 miles an hour over impossibly rough terrain, and sailing majestically through the air over every jump, because that's how they're presented. You never got the chance to see one, let alone drive one, back then, so it remains, in your mind, the ultimate off-road hero.

Fast-forward 30 years, and your dream car has been reissued. And you can afford it now. So you buy it, build it, take it out for that first run... and find out that your hero has feet of clay after all (not to mention gears made of cheese and the suspension travel of a mosquito). It bounces clumsily along, far slower than you think it ought to be. You push it too hard, and something breaks. You feel let down. Cheated. Angry. You pronounce it "junk," and go back to your modern reliable models.

Now, imagine that you did have one back then. You get your reissue kit, build it, and every piece and every step of assembly takes you back. After every step, you stop and fiddle with the completed assembly for a while, spinning gear shafts and moving suspension arms up and down, just like you did the first time. You take it out for that first run, and... Hmm. It's slower than you remember. And bouncy. But then you start to remember things: it works a little better if you give it just a bit of toe-out, instead of toe-in like the manual says. And there's a tiny little flick of the steering you can do when you hit a bump mid-turn that keeps it from flipping over. Roll on the throttle; don't just floor it. There you go, nice and steady. Time for a jump... keep on the throttle when it's in the air to keep the nose up, yep, just like that. This one doesn't just submit to your will and carry out your demands like your modern runners do; it's not point-and-click like that. You have to work with it to get what you want out of it. It's slower, but far more engaging.

And no, it's not as durable as the modern cars. You have to take it easy, or you'll break something. But taking it easy is not worse than all-out bashing; it's just different. Start out slow, then work your way up to the car's limits, and before long, you'll be able to go right up to the very edge of what it can do, without rolling over or crashing. And yes, it is possible to do this with any RC car, even a bone-stock Grasshopper.

And if that doesn't appeal to you, then by all means, avoid the old designs. There are plenty of fast, fun, tough-as-nails options, and you can point them at something and mash the throttle to your heart's content. It doesn't mean the re-res are "junk;" it just means they don't suit your style.

Honestly, I think a lot of this is Tamiya's fault, not for not making the re-res "better," but for marketing them as equivalent to modern designs, when clearly they are not (and shouldn't be). A little less "it's back, and better than ever!" and a little more "it's back, just how you remember it, warts and all" would go a long way, I think.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know that a lot of tamiya cars have flaws some more then others, I stay away form the cars with a lot of flaws like the orv cars beetle and blackfoot and some other cars because I like to run high powered brushless in then, but there are a lot of tamiya cars that can handle brushless power and with a little upgrade they are not that bad, I have a wt-01, gf-01, konghead I had a zahhak and more tamiya cars that are tough.

Why do people on this forum think that traxxas, and arrma cars are unbreakable, they to have a lot of flaws to, and they also need upgrades parts to get them reliable ,if you do high jumps with it or drive like you stole it  it breaks to without upgrades.

Nowinaminute says that the mst- mtx 1 drives better then the mud blaster 2,  I own both but my wt-01 drives better and sharper then the  the mtx1 and is the more reliable car, the mtx-1 is very slow in stock form with brushless about 12mph per hour and rols over a lot in stock form even more then my gf-01 dumptruck, the mtx1 has a high center of gravity and a small trackwide 27cm, I widened the track to 31cm put in a higher kv motor and bigger pinion gear.

The mst -mtx1 has flaws to, the plastic suspension links are weak and break, I reinforced it with m3 rod thru them, and the center drive shafts are rubbish the stock plastic one lasted 5 minutes and the steel upgrades had a lot of wear on them after 5 pack and broke a pin and  after every pack the grup shrews were lose, I have ordered traxxas t-maxx center drive shafts for it and make that fit.

Most of rc cars have flaws not only tamiya, the only car for my that has bin flawles is my serpent sct that has no upgrades and a lot of drive time on  it without any problems and wear.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, SuperChamp82 said:

Do you mean a 936 sir - if so spot on 👍

And ditto battery life from those old packs. 

I think the 956 came with a blue 540SD ? 

You are sharp, @SuperChamp82!!  

I remember the shell. 

But the chassis look entirely foreign.  

YwApotI.jpg

 

It took me quite a while to find the right chassis.  

 fSwVJaE.jpg

This was it, for sure.   

It doesn't look it, but I remember it having a proper differential in the spur gear.  

I think the rear allowed some suspension movement, but I cannot remember how that worked.  A flexible square frame, maybe?

Nor can I remember how the battery stayed in place.  Did it just slide around left and right?  

I remember that speed control becoming all grimy (so was the diff gears).  Where was the resister?  Was it under the coil?  

6SLGgeP.jpg

Then I found this photo with a box.  

I remember the metal bar, but don't remember how it was attached to the rear. A clip, maybe?  

wKJ2iOJ.jpg

Anyway, Porsche 956 was right.  But not Tamiya!  lol... 

I wouldn't mind getting a Kyosho for old times sake.  (I was disappointed with Double Dare, but this was a decent racer)  

 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, nowinaminute said:

I don't know why people think a modern replacement that's a bit more happy going at 35mph or so would somehow mean it inherently lacked "soul" or Tamiya identity. The Traxxas Stampede is really not that different fundamentally. It's a double wishbone monster truck made of injection moulded plastic. The main difference is that it's just a much better design.

And with a decent body on, I don't think they look any less "soulful" or have any less personality than a Mud Blaster II

 

tra72024.thumb.jpg.a861dfaf31f016b37eb424d4087bd24c.jpg

 

FWIW that's the 1/16 platform - which is VERY different mechanically (especially the suspension) from the 2WD 1/10 platform. (Side note: every 1/16 Traxxas came standard with 4WD, except the 'Grave Digger,' which had the front diff removed for reasons I've never fully understood. That said, it was a pretty straightforward conversion to restore the 4WD, and this is one of my favourite little trucks, which runs a 27T Tamiya motor from my CC01 with a 2S LiPo and is a pocket rocket) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, dannymulder said:

Why do people on this forum think that traxxas, and arrma cars are unbreakable, they to have a lot of flaws to, and they also need upgrades parts to get them reliable ,if you do high jumps with it or drive like you stole it  it breaks to without upgrades.

I certainly don't think they are unbreakable but I can drive my Slash 4x4 way harder than I can drive any of my Tamiyas and not break anything. My slash isn't even a real one but a Chinese clone which cost me £130 to buy and upgrade to better than VXL spec. Nothing has broken on it in over 2 years running a faster motor than the genuine Traxxas VXL. I might not jump 50ft off skate park ramps like some youtubers but I can certainly jump higher than any Tamiya MT I own without breaking. The last time I tried to jump a WT01 as high as I jump my slash I ended up with cracks in the shock towers which meant replacement gear cases because they are part of the same moulding in much the same was as you need to change the entire chassis half if it happens on a GF-01. The only thing close to damage on the Slash is the front skid plate wearing away from continual landings from large jumps but even if I broke a shock tower, it would only be that part I would need to replace and not a gearbox or chassis halve.

The slash is plenty durable for the average person. A lot of people piling upgrades on them drive them like idiots and run ridiculously overpowered motors so they can go up and down streets at 70+mph, they jump without any kind of control and don't even know to come off the throttle when they land etc. People like that are a wet dream to companies like RPM and MIP etc.

I also find things have a habit of falling off the WT01, WR01, WR-02, GF-01 etc. Screw pins tend to back their way out, the steering screws fall out when you least expect it etc. I'm not saying they're BAD but I've done more to my Dump truck and others to stop bits falling off than I've ever had to do to me fake Slash or my E-Maxx either for that matter. My Dump Truck is as tough as nails in terms of transmission and overall durability but I had to change all the screw pins for shafts and split pins where I could or longer step screws with machine threads so I could put a nylock nut on the other side. I also switched to allow uprights just so I could threadlock the screws in place and stop them coming out. I had to do similar things to my WR01, WT01, TL-01b, WR-02 etc etc

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, nowinaminute said:

I certainly don't think they are unbreakable but I can drive my Slash 4x4 way harder than I can drive any of my Tamiyas and not break anything. My slash isn't even a real one but a Chinese clone. Nothing has broken on it in over 2 years running a faster motor than the genuine Traxxas VXL. I might not jump 50ft off skate park ramps like some youtubers but I can certainly jump higher than any Tamiya MT I own without breaking. The last time I tried to jump a WT01 as high as I jump my slash I ended up with cracks in the shock towers which meant replacement gear cases because they are part of the same moulding in much the same was as you need to change the entire chassis half if it happens on a GF-01. The only thing close to damage on the Slash is the front skid plate wearing away from continual landings from large jumps but even if I broke a shock tower, it would only be that part I would need to replace and not a gearbox or chassis halve.

The slash is plenty durable for the average person. A lot of people piling upgrades on them drive them like idiots and run ridiculously overpowered motors so they can go up and down streets at 70+mph, they jump without any kind of control and don't even know to come off the throttle when they land etc. People like that are a wet dream to companies like RPM and MIP etc.

I also find things have a habit of falling off the WT01, WR01, WR-02, GF-01 etc. Screw pins tend to back their way out, the steering screws fall out when you least expect it etc. I'm not saying they're BAD but I've done more to my Dump truck and others to stop bits falling off than I've ever had to do to me fake Slash or my E-Maxx either for that matter. My Dump Truck is as tough as nails in terms of transmission and overall durability but I had to change all the screw pins for shafts and split pins where I could or longer step screws with machine threads so I could put a nylock nut on the other side. I also switched to allow uprights just so I could threadlock the screws in place and stop them coming out. I had to do similar things to my WR01, WT01, TL-01b, WR-02 etc etc

I must admit that on my wt-01 and gf-01 I use alloy shocktowers to prevent chassis cracking, use pins with clips for the suspension arms, have alloy hub carriers and knuckles on them and use turnbuckless and gmade shocks.

I never use screw suspension pins on a tamiya car and never use step screws I always use normal bolts with lock nuts on them, the step  screws and screwpins always come lose.

But with al the upgrades I have done to my wt-01 it is much cheaper then a brushless traxxas stampede and its one off the most reliable cars I have, and I do grazy jumps and stupid things with it without breaking.

I have owned a traxxas stampede, that car was not bullet proof and needed upgrades to.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like to think that a lot of Tamiya's customers are probably quite happy to build a car as per the instructions and have it tear up and down their driveway or backyard at 20kmh with the silver can because what they are after is really a remote controlled model, not necessarily a 100kmh remote controlled missile like your average traxxas customer wants. If the build is enjoyable and it can navigate their backyard at any speed, they are happy. 

If you look outside of this forum, you'd be hard pressed to find mention of fragile gears in a TT02B or many other 'common' flaws of other Tamiya cars. If the customers aren't complaining about it, Tamiya is unlikely to address the 'issues'. On the contrary, Traxxas are constantly pushed by their customers to make ever increasingly unbreakable products. People make youtube videos of their Traxxas cars breaking after crash landing a 20metre high jump at 80kmh and all the comments are "OmG it iS SooOOO WeaK TrAxXaS SuCks!!111"

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/5/2019 at 12:36 AM, Re-Bugged said:

No hate from me, people are entitled to their opinion’s, no one is handcuffed to a thread and made read it. if you like what you’re reading join in. If you don’t it’s like a TV, don’t like it turn it off, simple. 

Most massed produced things are flawed in some way or another from the start.  Take Ladies stockings for example. They can be made so they don’t ladder, but that won’t happen because then you wouldn’t buy anymore. Not good for an ongoing business. 

So a majority of the time stuff comes out the factory 90-95% right so not enough to deter you, keeps the initial cost down with room for a bit more down the track. 

Tamiya are usually around the cheapest for basic get you going kits and probably expected to end up in pile of pieces again from a terminal impact anyway.

Traxxas for the most part are more expensive so you would hope they are better. 

P.S my re-re Blackfoot hasn’t given any problems (yet) so I feel I’ve still had my money’s worth. And if something does break, it will still look good collecting dust on the shelf 😉

 

I love a flawed vehicle real and especially tamiya everything I've built from tamiya and other manufacturers have had some sort of discrepancy in it or building it but really is it that bad? To me it isn't and I think your bang on when you mention ladies stockings as an example (not that I have any idea what ya talking about when it comes to stockings😏) if everything was bullet proof the hobby would probably grind to a boring halt!. I'm glad your blackfoot has been troubled free my monster beetle (red one) was a total b#$*ache with the drive line🤔 I changed it for the frog drive shafts and cups but my new black edition was/is perfect but I can't when I put the drive shafts together see what the problem is they look identical........flaws eh🤷‍♂️

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/5/2019 at 1:35 PM, SuperChamp82 said:

True but are Tamiya running a marathon or sprint ?

There’s an unattractive (but compelling) logic in fleecing us to fill the coffers whilst releasing comedy crap that entices the next generation of model builders to enjoy running something they crafted themselves. 

And who then get drawn into the rabbit warren of old /  new Tamiya alike ...

Going head to head with $800 / 90kph Traxxas is classic tortoise vs hare - and btw my kids got bored of theirs inside 6 months 🤔

Yet tamiya does both regarding on road. They currently have both "fun" cars as well as race spec TRF versions, and did the same with off road for a while.  They've won national and world titles between their on-road, off-road, electric and nitro platforms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From someone who's first foray into RC cars was a nitro 1/8 scale buggy which I converted to brushless, 2650kv and 6s out the gate (I come from RC robots where 8-14s is common so 6s didn't seem as outlandish & foolish as it turned out to be) then second was a cheap hobbyking rtr short course thing, Tamiya was a breath of fresh air.

My first kit was the tamiya Blitzer Beetle which is several long strides away from the first two. Super simple, but you got such a better grounding and relationship with the parts. I was fully expecting the silver can to give it the same performance as the toy grade Nikko I had when I was 8 but it was actually quite respectable driving around the car park on a 2s lipo. It kept pace with my friends original traxxas stampede (2wd, black chassis) and spent less time on it's roof. Nothing really broke, and it was predicable and controllable. Jumped well and was just so robust. None of the fear and danger of a 1/8 brushless weapon, none of the hobbyking glass canon either. As I fixed/upgraded my blitzer and added a second in the form of a eBay stadium blitzer he bought an Axial Yeti. Now axial is an amazing company and they do some incredible stuff (plastic + metal parts are amazing) but that thing was a huge pain. It couldn't turn without flipping due to the immense power, grip and softness of the tires. It was a blast on loose gravel and rocks but constant flipping + gripping meant breakages and I think that rig had about £800 into it before it was done and it doesn't see much use as it's heavy and powerful and takes a lot of careful driving to keep it on its wheels. My Tamiya just goes. It doesn't perform amazingly but you could hand it to a small child and it would be drivable by them. It doesn't turn heads or pull tricks in the same way and you'd be very disappointed in it if you wanted a stunt truck.

It's going to be out performed by most modern cars. Doesn't mean it's not fun. I think Tamiya is a style and you either get it or you don't. Not a question of ages. Tamiya's heyday was more than a decade before I was born. There's 10 year olds in 2019 who love hotshots and there's 40 year old RTR guys who can't figure out how to build a TT02. 

Just speaking personally on the look of things, there's a lot of ugly bodies out there how. Look at how beautiful something like the Astute, Stadium Thunder and Hornet bodies were. Now it's there weird faux aerodynamic blobs adorned with 4 colour splashes and tribals. Ouch. And this is coming from someone who likes cab forward buggies! It's the difference between wearing a reprint of your favourite 80's band shirt and the guy down the market with the grainy prints of the grim reaper holding playing cards or too many wolves howling at the moon. I am yet to see a traxxas paintjob I don't find tacky.  

I think it's a niche within a niche and Tamiya fill the gap they made for themselves very, very well. By reputation most people know what they're getting into. If they were a new company and the last 3 years of releases had none of the branding they'd be dead by now. The history and integrity they've built up can and will keep them going. Fingers crossed for a respectable release in the CC02. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, makya said:

Yet tamiya does both regarding on road. They currently have both "fun" cars as well as race spec TRF versions, and did the same with off road for a while.  They've won national and world titles between their on-road, off-road, electric and nitro platforms.

True - on road is subtly different.

But the lack of recent Worlds wins is interesting ...

TRF consumer kits are prob the best available on road.

And vanilla TT02 box kits are also pretty good. 

So why don’t Tamiya compete to win ?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Hobgoblin said:

My Tamiya just goes. It doesn't perform amazingly but you could hand it to a small child and it would be drivable by them. It doesn't turn heads or pull tricks in the same way and you'd be very disappointed in it if you wanted a stunt truck.

I can relate to this in some ways. There's a performance threshold with RC where things just get silly imo. The trend for 6-8s setups with top speeds approaching or exceeding 100mph has become really popular but a lot of the time it's just more power than you could ever use apart from straight line sprints and ridiculously large jumps. And all that power means you often have to spend 000's on upgrades just to handle the power in the first place but even then, you can't defeat physics and massive 50 foot jumps almost inevitably result in broken parts. Parts that are more expensive than stock parts.

Whilst I would like it if Tamiya made some off road stuff capable of going a bit faster, I only mean in the same league as a standard Slash, I have little interest in the whole "send it" culture of "build, bash, repair, repeat"  

That's why even with stuff like my Slash, I only use a 540 size brushless motor on 2s or 3s. Some people laugh and/or mock me for not having an 8th scale 4-6s setup but why? Then you need after market drive shafts, stronger arms, stronger servo, the body shell will inevitably get destroyed every few runs, tyres shredded etc etc and for what? You can't turn and burn on dirt hills and sand dunes at 70mph so what's the point? I don't mind a bit of speed when I'm in a big open area like the beach or a field but even then, it can get boring just running up and down in straight lines. I know a lot of people with these vehicles who go through expensive aftermarket drive shafts like candy but I've yet to break a part on my slash and it still has enough oomph to do flips at the skate park. I see people argue relentlessly about who's tougher out of Traxxas and Arrma but most of the time, it's the over powering and they way they drive them that makes them break.

The fastest RC I currently own is an HBX T6. It's a big 6th scale buggy and can run 4s or 6s. On 6s it will hit 70mph and it is admittedly impressive and exhilarating for a while but it gets boring after a bit because you have to slow waaaayyyyyy down to turn anyway. After a few speed runs, I get more fun from power sliding it at half that speed! I have way more fun blasting it around in dirt and sand leaving massive rooster tails and it can manage that on a single 3s battery and still get up to 35-40mph which is more than enough most of the time.

Although I'd like to see a few Tamiyas capable of that little bit more, if I had a choice between driving a Blitzer beetle with a silver can and some over powered 6s speed queen, I'd take the Tamiya. Better to have something you can grab by the scruff of the neck and wring every last ounce from than a vehicle where you can't really use more than 50% of it's performance unless you'e going in a straight line or while you're airborne. 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Hobgoblin said:

It was a blast on loose gravel and rocks but constant flipping + gripping meant breakages and I think that rig had about £800 into it before it was done and it doesn't see much use as it's heavy and powerful and takes a lot of careful driving to keep it on its wheels.

I agree with this too. But people will say "but it's not meant for grippy surfaces, it's meant for the dirt" but everything handles better in the dirt anyway. I try to keep my Blackfoot to the dirt because it rolls on grippy ground too but you can forgive that of an 80's monster truck. When it's a model decades younger,and way more expensive you kind of expect a little advancement in versatility but a lot of vehicles like that are kind of self defeating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, SuperChamp82 said:

True - on road is subtly different.

But the lack of recent Worlds wins is interesting ...

TRF consumer kits are prob the best available on road.

And vanilla TT02 box kits are also pretty good. 

So why don’t Tamiya compete to win ?

I would even say that their off road TRF kits were fantastic as well.  The way they were designed to easily be tuned in many ways before buying parts was a feature that I just dont see in many other manufacturers. 

 

My assumption is that they didn't see themselves competing in their home market,  and the overseas markets weren't enough to keep TRF going.  I imagine there are too many smaller race oriented companies to designate a portion of tamiya to compete against and still make money out of that division. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, nowinaminute said:

I can relate to this in some ways. There's a performance threshold with RC where things just get silly imo. The trend for 6-8s setups with top speeds approaching or exceeding 100mph has become really popular but a lot of the time it's just more power than you could ever use apart from straight line sprints and ridiculously large jumps. And all that power means you often have to spend 000's on upgrades just to handle the power in the first place but even then, you can't defeat physics and massive 50 foot jumps almost inevitably result in broken parts. Parts that are more expensive than stock parts.

Whilst I would like it if Tamiya made some off road stuff capable of going a bit faster, I only mean in the same league as a standard Slash, I have little interest in the whole "send it" culture of "build, bash, repair, repeat"  

That's why even with stuff like my Slash, I only use a 540 size brushless motor on 2s or 3s. Some people laugh and/or mock me for not having an 8th scale 4-6s setup but why? Then you need after market drive shafts, stronger arms, stronger servo, the body shell will inevitably get destroyed every few runs, tyres shredded etc etc and for what? You can't turn and burn on dirt hills and sand dunes at 70mph so what's the point? I don't mind a bit of speed when I'm in a big open area like the beach or a field but even then, it can get boring just running up and down in straight lines. I know a lot of people with these vehicles who go through expensive aftermarket drive shafts like candy but I've yet to break a part on my slash and it still has enough oomph to do flips at the skate park. I see people argue relentlessly about who's tougher out of Traxxas and Arrma but most of the time, it's the over powering and they way they drive them that makes them break.

The fastest RC I currently own is an HBX T6. It's a big 6th scale buggy and can run 4s or 6s. On 6s it will hit 70mph and it is admittedly impressive and exhilarating for a while but it gets boring after a bit because you have to slow waaaayyyyyy down to turn anyway. After a few speed runs, I get more fun from power sliding it at half that speed! I have way more fun blasting it around in dirt and sand leaving massive rooster tails and it can manage that on a single 3s battery and still get up to 35-40mph which is more than enough most of the time.

Although I'd like to see a few Tamiyas capable of that little bit more, if I had a choice between driving a Blitzer beetle with a silver can and some over powered 6s speed queen, I'd take the Tamiya. Better to have something you can grab by the scruff of the neck and wring every last ounce from than a vehicle where you can't really use more than 50% of it's performance when you'e going in a straight line or while you're airborne. 

 

I couldn't agree more with this. I am seriously considering down powering my 2S 3500kv DT03 truck because even tearing around in a relatively empty park it feels a little anti-social when people do appear, for me to be firing this missile about. All this talk of 3s,4s,6s? What?!! It's getting like 1:1 cars. The massive trend is ugly, heavy, highly consumptive SUVs which need massive brakes and wheels and tyres to contain the "glamourous" v8 engine, and 1000hp hypercars that do 250mph and they are all really heavy because they go too fast for sensible use on the public road. They are pointless and pretty disgusting really. I think we will be judged badly by the next generation! Actual responsible driving pleasure is more easily dervied in greater quantities from something light and not very fast, with grip to meet that need only. As i heard someone say the other day "we enthusiasts should have cars which only do 60mph but you drive them on the door handles". Same goes for RC IMO. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...