M05 vs M07?

[Juggular 4964]

I'm not looking to buy M-07.  (I got my hands full with M-06 and M-05 at the moment) 

I'm just curious as to the performance difference.  Frankly, I am an on-road Noob.  I care more about how the shell looks.  But I can tell M05 and M06 drives differently (obviously).  I would love to get XV01 because it's got weight in front.  Having said that, the weight distribution of M05 and M07 should be almost identical.  I got a couple shells that can use new chassis anyway.  

I'm wondering if it would be worth paying $50 more for some adjustability (that I will not mess with) and CVA shocks.  It can't be all that different from M05, is it?  

 

[Butler 338]

M07 is a big step forward. All reinforced plastics and touring car level suspension and gearbox. I can’t really tell if the M07 is any better in handling because I have M07L and my M05 was a S. My M07 is faster around a track purely on gearing. The handling is easier, but that could be the long wheelbase. 

[TurnipJF 9192]

I have both set to medium wheelbase and fitted with 13.5t motors.

The M-05 is more forgiving. I can send it at a corner at full throttle, hold full throttle through the corner and accelerate away at full throttle and the car just goes where I tell it to, "diffing away" excess power.

The M-07 on the other hand will spin out if I overcook it, which forces me to drive it more like a touring car, braking and feathering the throttle rather than hammering it all the way around the track. This translates to smoother cornering and quicker lap times, but it requires more effort to achieve them. 

[Juggular 4964]

I'm getting the vibe that it's like DT02 and DT03?  Just a little different?  

But the build should have some difference like DT02 and DN01?  

19 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

quicker lap times, but it requires more effort to achieve them

Okay, @TurnipJF and @Butler, if you guys had shells for three M05s, would you replace one with M07?  

 

 

[TurnipJF 9192]

@Juggular Definitely! A challenging but rewarding car makes for a better driver. 

[Juggular 4964]

1 hour ago, TurnipJF said:

@Juggular Definitely! A challenging but rewarding car makes for a better driver. 

hmm... well, @TurnipJF, I've seen enough of your posts to know I can rely on your opinion.  So, my 3rd FWD shell shall be worn by an M-07.  XV-01 would have to wait its turn.  Life would be no fun if there are no turns.  

 

[Jonathon Gillham 4606]

6 hours ago, Juggular said:

 

Okay, @TurnipJF and @Butler, if you guys had shells for three M05s, would you replace one with M07?  

 

 

I'm surprised you had to ask, obviously the answer is you need some of each...

[Blista 1519]

As soon as the M07 came out I sold my barely run M05 and I don't regret it for a second.

The M07 comes with bearings standard.  There's no necessary upgrades out of the box.  The build is a much nicer process.  I don't race it and have done almost no adjustments to the stock setup.

The only downside, other than it costing a bit more, is that the M05 should be a bit more durable in rougher environments because the gearbox is better sealed against debris.  If you buy a plug off Shapeways it solves the biggest problem with that though.

[Juggular 4964]

Well, 32 hours ago, I really was not looking to buy it.  Scout's honor!  

In hindsight, I shouldn't have asked... (I'm so predictable)

"Things" just have a way of getting to M07 (or whatever Tamiya I am vaguely thinking about. But not the ones I want most like XV01).  Like our 26 year old espresso thing, that's been leaking steam from the cap.  

My wife wanted something "prettier" like this one. 

I make 4-6 cups of cappuccino every week (mostly on weekends when I have 15 minutes to fuss over it).  That would be like $1300 per year at Starbucks.  Compared to that, even if this $240 espresso machine breaks down after 3 years, it'd be like 30 cents a cup instead of $5.  We might have bought it, if the product review was stellar.  But it was mediocre.  Why don't I just replace the torn seal?  So the seal arrived.  It's still not sealing well, but the older one had done that before when it was new.  

Anyway, that $9 seal might have saved us $230.  What should I do with it?  Well, I'll order M07, naturally!!   

On top of that, I have the beautiful body of Julia.

(No, not this Julia) 

This Giulia.   

Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GT is RWD (thus M06). 

But the engine is in front.  It drives more like FWD, the rear end fishtailing and all.  In my opinion, M06 that came with Giulia was too much like rear-engined VW bug or NSU Prinz.  The nose would turn sharply, pivoting at the rear.  So M06 had to go to NSU Prinz TT.  

 

Giulia should do the opposite!  Nose-heavy and wag her tail!  

Which M07 could do. (Well, un-powered FWD fishtailing is not same as zesty powered-fishtailing, but it's the next best thing)

And Giulia has long wheelbase, M07 could fit.  

It all made sense to me in my head.  Doesn't it make perfect sense?  Doesn't it?  

(But my wife would tell you, "so, I told him to make some cappuccino. He starts doing it. Suddenly he runs upstairs and orders an RC car. He says it all makes sense. What does an RC car have to do with my cappuccino?")   

Anyway......  

M07 should arrive in about 2 weeks. 

I'm should remember never to say; "I'm not looking to buy..." 

(but "never say never," so I might say it again) 

 

[Jonathon Gillham 4606]

*@Juggular that buying story beat any i've read before and you weren't even drunk. I really like drunk ebay stories

Edit: or were you? The logic suggests at least something in those cappuccinos

[Big Jon 684]

The M07 doesn't stall in corners like a M05 does, and it's so much nicer to look at. I love them both, but the M07 is better in every way possible.

[Juggular 4964]

10 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

*@Juggular that buying story beat any i've read before and you weren't even drunk. I really like drunk ebay stories

Edit: or were you? The logic suggests at least something in those cappuccinos

lol... nothing in our cappuccinos, except milk, stevia and cinnamon...unless you have some suggestions.  She's not into anything not-delicious, so no tofu, thank you.  But if this car delivers tofu, I might try to eat tofu everyday. 

I thought people bought RC cars, using similar logic?  I live in my head, so this buying process is quite normal. (Everybody lives in their heads. I haven't met anybody without a head. That would be an awkward day...)  

I have few experiences drinking until I'm puking (which I'm not keen on repeating).  But when I'm holding onto the toilette bowl for dear life, I don't usually think, "could I buy M08 to fit under Fiat 500 Abarth?"  I might, however, wonder if I should have cleaned the toilette bowl more often.  

I drink beer with friends and family.  But I'm afraid they'll think I'm a weirdo if I say, "hold that thought..." and run up to buy RC cars.  So I don't.  Wait... Come to think of it, I did that once or twice when ebay auction time was closing.  They probably thought I went to the bathroom. (But most people don't need timers to go to the bathroom. So I don't know if they were fooled.)  Social convention is such a bother.... My wife tolerates my logic of saving money. Which turned out to be flawed...  

Because the espresso machine is howling now!  (you can see the steam)

I put the kitchen rag on top it.  But that didn't stop the jolly whistling at all.  I told my wife; "It's all good. We now have a way to sterilize the rag in steam. Voila! Two birds with one stone!"   My wife didn't buy it. She said, "Just order the cheaper one you were looking at!"   

So I might have to order a $60 one.  Not as neat looking as the $240 one, but it'll do.  

Whole $230 savings could have given me 2 kits, though.  While I was looking into M07, I came across 2CV rally. 

$160 spent on M07 left me $70.  I could push my luck and order M05 Rally.  If I like XV01 because of the front-motor, M05 has the motor in front too, right?  I prefer 2WD anyway.  But if I buy a new espresso machine, that'll leave me $10! 

I don't know why am I thinking cappuccinos should comes out of my pocket.  I only thought "I saved money" to buy M07.  Now that saving went up in...steam..., the new espresso machine should go back to the household expenditure. (how convenient) 

But I've got another card to play.  I can say, "but, M07 was last month. October is a whole new month."  I'm so glad September ends with 30th. No 31st means a day sooner to buy M05Ra!  (It's a self-imposed rule of a sort. My wife doesn't care much--unless there is no cappuccino. Wise men say, only fools rush in between women and their cappuccinos. So she shall get her cappuccinos, I shall get my M05Ra.  Logically, it's all flawed. But who cares. It's not like death is on the line.)   

[Juggular 4964]

Socrates was right... "when in doubt, buy both." 

 

[Juggular 4964]

No ESC, no motor, no shell.  I had bothered to prepare, no big deal.    

But no tires as well?  It's an entirely-nude kit for mature-audiences.   

This was a shock. (at least it came with shocks)  

I never had a chassis this bare (bearings were also provided)  

Tiresome as it is, I should order a set of tires.  

I could steal from other cars, but would't feel right leaving flaws.  

 

[Jonathon Gillham 4606]

12 minutes ago, Juggular said:

No ESC, no motor, no shell.  I had bothered to prepare, no big deal.    

But no tires as well?  It's an entirely-nude kit for mature-audiences.   

This was a shock. (at least it came with shocks)  

I never had a chassis this bare (bearings were also provided)  

Tiresome as it is, I should order a set of tires.  

I could steal from other cars, but would't feel right leaving flaws.  

 

I find it strange that they come like this. I know the race kits do but people are spending a lot of money and want all the right bits. These mid-level kits without tyres, bidy etc don't really make sense to me. The TB04 or TA06 for example, makes sense. You get the base kits with everything, then the Pro and R with hopups but no body. There is something for everyone. 

I wonder if Tamiya plan on some base level kits on the new chassis which are more complete. I doubt it given the TA07 has been out a few years now.

[c64orinoco 667]

Having just repaired our coffee machine my thoughts immediately turned to which m-chassis I am going to get.

I've just got back into the hobby after 35 years or so, and my darling wife got the hint to get me a tt02b for Xmas. I haven’t even got it yet, but already I’m remembering I only ever had buggies, I never had a Tamiya road car (not counting the Kyosho mini-Z).

I’ve got a real Mito so of course I want the Tamiya one; but I can’t decide between the M05 kit or the M07 concept with a Mito body, but that means sourcing the wheels and tyres not to mention motor and ESC. But with the M05 I’d want CVA shocks and bearings at least. My gut says M07 but bits can be a little hard to source in Australia.

The M05 seems to be a bit difficult to source parts for as it’s a bit older - is this the case?

Can any Australians recommend any of the overseas stores?

There are plenty of retailers with the Mito body - maybe it’s not popular? I love mine; it was affordable, is turbocharged, it’s an Alfa so it looks gorgeous and it makes that lovely snarly Alfa sound, and all Mito owners wave to each other when passing. Also Mito owners walk away from their cars backwards because they are admiring how gorgeous they look. Ok I would still do the same if it was a 4C.
 

Christmas Eve - there’s something I probably should be doing but I’m reading RC car forums in between tidying my workbench and finding my old tools.

2020 is going to be a fun year  

 

 

[Butler 338]

I've had both and I would just go for the M07 as its a next level car in terms of quality and complexity and worry about the consequences later.

[TurnipJF 9192]

Both M-05 and M-07 are still in production and still popular amongst their target demographics as far as I know, so I don't foresee any significant differences in parts availability going forward. 

The lack of tyres, ESC, etc in the M-07 is a good thing to my mind, as for all but the most casual bashing these are items that you would want to choose yourself. It makes sense to exclude them, rather than bumping up the price of the kit and including parts that are in all likelihood unsuitable for the car's working life.

Either would be a fun addition to your fleet though. The demanding but rewarding M-07 or the fun and relatively hassle-free M-05 - both have their place. 

[museguy 39]

Hi All,

Noob question, on a tight track is a M-05 / M-07 faster than a TT-02 ?

Went to a weekend race and all the cars were M-05s. The track was very small (size of a basketball court) and very tight turns. 

Thank you !  

[DeadMeat666 1675]

3 hours ago, museguy said:

Hi All,

Noob question, on a tight track is a M-05 / M-07 faster than a TT-02 ?

Went to a weekend race and all the cars were M-05s. The track was very small (size of a basketball court) and very tight turns. 

Thank you !  

As a person who has both a TT02S (which is supposed to handle better than a TT02) and an M07, I can tell you that my M07 is clearly faster on any track that has tight turns. The turn-in is more immediate and it simply goes where you point it.

I can't comment on the M05, since I don't have one (yet?).

Disclaimers:

1. My TT02S has a powerful brushless system in it and pretty much every option you could throw at it.

2. My M07 has a sport tuned... and pretty much every option you could throw at it.

Hope that helped.

And here are pretty pictures of both naked cars for your viewing pleasure!

TT02S:

 

M07:

[TurnipJF 9192]

On 9/21/2021 at 5:07 AM, museguy said:

Hi All,

Noob question, on a tight track is a M-05 / M-07 faster than a TT-02 ?

Went to a weekend race and all the cars were M-05s. The track was very small (size of a basketball court) and very tight turns. 

Thank you !  

I think there are a lot of variables, with different driving styles suiting different chassis, but overall they are very close. Like @DeadMeat666 I too have a TT-02 Type S and an M-07, also with hop-ups a-plenty on both of them. However mine are both running 13.5t brushless power. Here they are with my M-08, also on 13.5t:

On the tight and technical tracks we typically use for the postal racing, the TT-02 Type S is the fastest of the three, followed closely by the M-08, with the M-07 close behind. In my hands at least. Other drivers may record different results. And if my TT-02 was a standard one rather than a hopped up Type S, the M-07 and M-08 would likely be ahead of it. 

The M-05 used to be quicker in my hands over race distances than the M-07 due to being easier to drive consistently, but now that I have fine tuned the M-07's handling and had more practice driving it, I am just as consistent with it as I am with my M-05, as well as being a bit quicker. However if I hadn't been using it in the postal racing, I would probably still be more consistent with the M-05.

 Here are the '07 and '05 together:

 

But how would a standard non-S TT-02 fare against an M-05? I don't have a standard TT-02 with which to answer that one, but I do have a pair of TT-01s which are very similar. And when comparing them to the M-05, all on 13.5t motors and tight tracks, it is too close to call. The lighter M-05 corners more tightly but the 4WD TT-01 accelerates quicker out of corners, leading to virtually identical overall times and lap counts.

Here are the TT-01s:

Both are sporting a bit of alloy and carbon, but this is mainly to improve reliability rather than performance, so I don't think their performance would be far off that of a standard TT-02 with the same motor. 

[DeadMeat666 1675]

Now that you mention it @TurnipJF, I probably found the M07 to be 'better' because my TT02S has too much power (4000kv), coupled with stock tires, which are really not great compared to the soft m-chassis rubber.

Your comparison is much more apples-to-apples. In fact the very reason I included the disclaimers was that I knew my comparison was very far from that.

[hIghQ 149]

9 minutes ago, DeadMeat666 said:

Now that you mention it @TurnipJF, I probably found the M07 to be 'better' because my TT02S has too much power (4000kv), coupled with stock tires, which are really not great compared to the soft m-chassis rubber.

Your comparison is much more apples-to-apples. In fact the very reason I included the disclaimers was that I knew my comparison was very far from that.

Also, since you quote your motor in kv, not in turns, I presume it's sensorless? If so, that's also undesirable on a track car, combined with being overpowered, that can be a real handfull to drive

[DeadMeat666 1675]

6 hours ago, hIghQ said:

Also, since you quote your motor in kv, not in turns, I presume it's sensorless? If so, that's also undesirable on a track car, combined with being overpowered, that can be a real handfull to drive

It's a Hobbywing quickrun 8.5t sensored motor. 

[hIghQ 149]

4 hours ago, DeadMeat666 said:

It's a Hobbywing quickrun 8.5t sensored motor. 

Ok, so it is sensored. Good. But still seriously overpowered for our beloved plastic bomber. My TT-02 SR is fully hopped up (as is yours, IIRC), but I'd still never put more power into it than something for stock or super stock classes. 8.5T is modified country - even if it is on the low end for that. So I guess my personal absolute limit for track use with this car would probably be... 10.5T, but I'd feel better with a 13.5T instead. And that on some good rubber. (My TT-02 is specced for a certain racing class, so 17.5T with blinky ESC and fixed gearing is mandatory for me, but we use better tires.)

But let's end the TT-02 stuff, this was about M-05 and M-07, sorry.