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Moonraker1

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Hi

I am new to RC cars and thought I would introduce myself and pose you some beginners questions and yes I did make the obvious beginners error and not turn on the controller first but I worked that one out thanks to Mr Google! I have three vintage cars a Tamiya Madcap, Tamiya Manta Ray and a Bycmo Subaru Impreza Network Q Rally (2000?) as shown below. 

DSC_0048.thumb.JPG.c92947061d00f8e1776923f59e056cc8.JPG

All three are fitted with manual speed controllers and brushed motors and I have the original nicad batteries which don't last long! My first question is:

1. Will they work OK if I upgrade to Nimh batteries or should I stick with Nicad? I would like to keep them original and don't want to change the MSC or motors.

2. With the Tamiya cars are they marked somewhere on the chassis with the manufacturers part number?

Cheers

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50 minutes ago, Moonraker1 said:

My first question is:

1. Will they work OK if I upgrade to Nimh batteries or should I stick with Nicad? I would like to keep them original and don't want to change the MSC or motors.

2. With the Tamiya cars are they marked somewhere on the chassis with the manufacturers part number?

 

Welcome, are those your original cars from when you were younger or have you started a new collection? The Manta Ray has been rereleased now so you could buy a new one to run and keep your original for the shelf if you want to preserve it.

To answer your questions.

You can definitely change to NiMH in place of NiCd without any issues. NiMH has essentially the same performance as Nicd but generally will give longer run times. Just be aware that the physical size increase with the capacity - my 3800Mah NiMH are significantly bigger than my old 1400Mah Nicd and barely fit in my older cars. I would look for around 3000Mah as a good compromise. A friend has some 2000Mah and when I borrowed them I thought my car had broken when it stopped since the run time was so quick compared to what i'm used to.

The part numbers aren't on the parts themselves but the manual has a complete list which is very easy to use. If you don't have the manuals just do a quick search and you can download them,  they are easy to find. The back of the manual will list all the parts with pictures of them too so you can easily identify them. It splits then into part bags and sprues so you can buy complete bits, or you'll find the parts separately on ebay easily enough. Depending on the part whole bags can work out better than just the part you need.

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Jonathon

Thanks for your reply, the cars are a new collection and this is my first foray into the rc car world.

Thanks for the battery advice I will be careful with the physical size of the batteries. I assume the NiCd battery chargers I have will need to be replaced?

When I said "part numbers" I meant the 58**** series model numbers to be able to identify a specific car. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks for the advice on the parts though!

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14 minutes ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

The Manta Ray has been rereleased now so you could buy a new one to run and keep your original for the shelf if you want to preserve it.

haha first reply and already suggesting a new kit. at this rate i reckon Moonraker1 will have six new cars in his collection by the end of the month. but its ok, we understand ;)

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If you want to run them then go ESCs 

you will get better control and the car won’t whizz off down the street with you chasing it ;)

tamiya ones are £20 and will do brushless and brushed 

or you can try a goolRC brushless set up (ESC and motor) for under £30 but you will need an adaptor connector for tamiya (they are about £4)

 you will prob also need to upgrade to a 2.4ghz transmitter and receiver

you can get a combo set for £20 and once you have one transmitter you can pair to as many receivers you want

if you want to keep them on the shelf and keep them retro then don’t change anything 

JJ

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Those Madcap front tires are worth a pretty penny. If you run it you may want to get some different wheels/tires.

Get yourself some NiMH's and run them as is to decide if you want to run or shelf them. If you want to run them, esc's will make a big difference. With an msc all it takes is a tiny piece of gravel and your car is runnig full speed until it hits something.

Just my 2 cents.

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Be careful with the ball diff  in the Madcap, they are notorious for slipping , you may want to service it before running it, if you google Madcap ball diff slipping you will get a lot of info

 

 

Enjoy 

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3 hours ago, Moonraker1 said:

Jonathon

Thanks for your reply, the cars are a new collection and this is my first foray into the rc car world.

Thanks for the battery advice I will be careful with the physical size of the batteries. I assume the NiCd battery chargers I have will need to be replaced?

When I said "part numbers" I meant the 58**** series model numbers to be able to identify a specific car. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks for the advice on the parts though!

The nicd charger should charge NiMH as well, at least mine use the same program for those 2 battery types. Depending on what charger you have I would look at a new one as the new ones charge at higher rates so are much faster. I like the SkyRC range as they are cheap and work well. I have 2 single chargers but in hindsight would buy the D100, D200 or Q200 if I was starting again. The D series charge 2 at once and the Q 4. The S60 is about NZD60 delievered from Banggood and works really well - it runs of AC power so doesn't need a separate power supply, it charges up to 6amps which is plenty for 10th scale cars and does all battery types.

If you google the car you have then its easy to find the model number. Sites like Tamiyabase.com or rcscrapyard.com have a wealth of information about the cars.

As suggested 2.4ghz radio and ESC are a good idea, but if you've just spent a bunch you may prefer to run them as is for a while.

For radio gear, Flysky is cheap and works fine, Radiolink is a good mid-range set and Futaba or Sanwa are the top shelf stuff. I have a bit of everything and its horses for courses. Our race cars run sanwa and futaba, we have flysky and futaba for bashers and yachts. If kids are going to use them then make sure the radio gear has EPA, this allows you to slow the car down for new drivers. My son is 6 and has been racing a year and still has EPA at 60% on his race car. Best piece of advice - look at the price of receivers before you decide, they range from $7 to $130 so it makes a massive difference.

3 hours ago, MockTurtle said:

haha first reply and already suggesting a new kit. at this rate i reckon Moonraker1 will have six new cars in his collection by the end of the month. but its ok, we understand ;)

You have been here before right, people can ask what colour they should paint a car and will inevitably be told to buy more kits!

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Wow thank you Jonathan and everyone else for all the advice, I've got a lot to think about!

So as far as identifying a specific unknown chassis/model Tamiya haven't made it easy!

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11 minutes ago, Moonraker1 said:

So as far as identifying a specific unknown chassis/model Tamiya haven't made it easy!

It won't be long before you have model numbers, part numbers, interchangable parts, release dates...etc, all memorised! :lol:

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Welcome aboard!

Yeah, get some ESC's. Manual Speed Controllers are a tool of the devil!

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Don't listen to these guys. They fear what they do not understand. If you want to keep them original and use the mechanical speed controls, then do so. Just get yourself some NiMH batteries in the 2000-3000 mAh range, pick up a new battery charger (NiCd and NiMH have different peak characteristics, and the chargers aren't interchangeable), and enjoy them as-is. Later on, if you want to try a newer car with an ESC and some more modern electronics, you'll still have these, all nice and original (and more desirable for collectors, if you ever choose to sell).

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With the somewhat unjustified rep MSCs have, its a wonder the RC car hobby lasted at all. I mean, how come all us older guys still have fingers? I would have imagined they were all burned off by blazing, white-hot resistors and such from the stories I read on the interweb. I wholeheartedly agree with @markbt73 on this one.

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When I first got my Bear Hawk I ran it with the msc a few times. Twice a pebble got stuck in the msc and the thing took off, and that was with the lexan msc cover. Luckily it ran into tall plants rather than a curb/wall/rock. My recommendation had nothing to do with resistors.

And never get rid of the msc, set it aside so it can be put back in the car if needed.

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Yep, there is nothing wrong with MSC.  But I was blown away by ESC when I started RC again in the year 2000.  I can make it go so slowly (albeit with some noise from the motor).    

The only thing I didn't like about MSC (aside from burned fingertip) was the running start.  It can't do slow.  However, if you gun it all the time, MSC will do fine.  At full speed, there is no difference in efficiency.  Just do what you want, at your own pace.  NiMH is a good start.  

download.jpg.e2cd6e5ea6f2f480105720b69ad44356.jpg

 

Mad Cap is 58082, Manta Ray is 58097. 

Usually the first chassis of the family might have the model number on the chassis.  But I think subsequent chassis might have the model number of the original.   For example, the first M06 was 58460.  My Alpha Romeo's model number is 58486.  But the chassis still say 58460, the initial model.  

 

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It just bugs me when people talk about reviving something old, and start off by saying that you "have to" replace such-and-such component with the modern equivalent, because the old ones are "useless." It seems wasteful, and also, it has the potential to discourage people from rejoining the hobby. If "all your old stuff is junk" and you "have to replace it all with all this modern stuff," it can get discouraging. So I just want to offer another way forward: replace what's broken, and preserve what still works fine. Besides, if you like the feel and the experience of the old stuff, a modern replacement isn't an improvement; often, it ruins the fun.

Actually, I've written at length about this recently... https://dustylexan.wordpress.com/2019/09/22/the-good-old-days/

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I could still use the msc's if I wanted to, my comments have a tongue in both cheeks. I don't think I ever burned myself on the resistor either.....badly.
Heck, these days I can even read the Japanese on the old warning stickers, a benefit of having lived there.
 

I just find the esc's much easier, hassle free, and you can drive slow.

When I got back into the hobby back the mid 2000's I think? I bought among other things a NIMH battery to get me started again. Dusted off my old hornet, went to work and got it going, with the msc.
Now I'm still not sure what went wrong, but I ran it and the wires kept melting off the motor. I eventually got them to stay on and smoke came out from somewhere, the msc I think and I stopped. I think it was the resistor crapping out, still not sure, possibly the nimh putting out a bit much power for the old thing to handle considering it was first used back in the 80's. Who knows....
Seeing how well the msc's worked in my boys cars I got one of those and haven't looked back.

But I guess it's all personal preference in the end. Run what ever you like/are happy with.

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I agree with others re: just do the bare minimum to get them running and have fun! Better performance or better control does not always equal more fun, and older Tamiya cars have a certain charm or quirkiness to how they drive (and in some cases being a bit temperamental!)

That is not to say don't upgrade them to newer electronics (which are dirt cheap these days), but part of the fun of this hobby for me is to perform incremental upgrades and discover for myself how one part makes the car drive differently to another.

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Thanks everyone I think I will follow @markbt73 suggestion and take one step at a time and keep my options open.

But just to clarify upgrading to Nimh batteries with a brushed motor and MSC is OK and is not problematic as I have read on other forums/websites?

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I rotate every one of my vintage boxed / built - earliest 1978 - for a run at least once a year on dry days.

All with period 27Mhz UK vintage radios. 

Then strip, clean and re-grease. 

Unless you try and run old school MSCs and radios in a city square - where the people are more an issue than unlevelled / lubed MSC arms or crowded frequencies - @markbt73 and @Saito2 are absolutely right.

Enjoy the olds stuff exactly the way you remember it 👍

And build / thrash re re with modern rigs 😬

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2 hours ago, Moonraker1 said:

Thanks everyone I think I will follow @markbt73 suggestion and take one step at a time and keep my options open.

But just to clarify upgrading to Nimh batteries with a brushed motor and MSC is OK and is not problematic as I have read on other forums/websites?

Good move, if they work then run them as is.

Yes, NiMH work with MSC and brushed motors. Back in the day they would run 7 cell Nicd which is closer to a 2s lipo. Given they are old I would stick to a 6cell NiMH to be safe. 6 cell is the normal stick pack, or 7.2v, which looks the same as the old Nicd packs.

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first time I've seen a completed Bycmo Subaru - fair play to you for seeing it through . I've a few spare for one of these somewhere

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My cars as a kid always went out of range and always got stuck with what until they hit a curb.

nothing wrong with a MSC at all if keeping stock

but if you’d like to drive it and not destroy it, for not much money an ESC takes away risk and removes stress on the drive train. Slamming a 30yr old car into reverse can strip gears and break components.

i have some cars with ESCs and some with mechanical. But the ones I drive and have fun with have ESCs 

JJ

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14 hours ago, KEV THE REV said:

 

first time I've seen a completed Bycmo Subaru - fair play to you for seeing it through . I've a few spare for one of these somewhere

@KEV THE REV well somebody saw it through but it wasn't me! A friend gave it to me for helping him out but he didn't build it either! I will bear in mind the spares if I have any problems in the future. Thanks

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