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Saito2

Squeezing the plastic modeler

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So, I stopped at hobby lobby the other day in need of some Tamiya masking tape and blades for my hobby knife. They stopped carrying the Tamiya tape, instead offering an off-brand that actually worked just as well (although with notably less adhesion). While I was there I always check out the plastic models, being casually in the market for a Chevy Nova model to go with the 1:1 one in my garage. I actually found a couple but there was a problem...

48885963736_066044b1d7.jpg20191012_102837 by Scott Weiland, on Flickr

but not to worry, there was this more budget friendly one...

48885964471_0fc2e90e97.jpg20191012_102906 by Scott Weiland, on Flickr

Now, I've been out of plastic models for some time so I'm not expert. @markbt73 would be far more knowledgeable than I in this area. Still, doesn't $29.99 and $26.99 seem a tad excessive for a plastic model even at a brick and mortar like Hobby Lobby? When I was a wee lad, they were about $4 and change. Through most of my youth, they sat at $7-8. As an adult in my mid/late 20's, that jumped to $15.  Approaching $30 is just too much. I understand they don't sell like they used to, but how will they draw in new hobbyist or even a casual plastic modeler like me with that kind of sticker shock. The whole isle was priced in that range, with the larger big rig models running $50-60 for a 1/25 scale kit. 

Sadly, this is a tiny tiny tiny example of how the middle class is getting squeezed in the US. Prices have risen and the wages have not come close to matching them. Oddly enough, entering the Target store next door, I saw and job ad for $13 an hour. That's only a couple dollars below what I make in a highly skilled, FDA certified profession. Strange times.

 

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The bottom one is a Revell Street Burner series kit. The top is an AMT Nova SS kit. I'm guessing its a rerelease as I had the same kit some 30 years or more ago, same boxart and all.

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For you, I quote my loving wife; "you don't know how much things cost."  Yes, that's why I think my allowance is $80 a month. (No wonder I always end up spending 3 times that)  

So... yeah, that's the going price.  Especially for car kits that have big chunky molds.  The problem is, less kids these days would want the pain of building stuff when there are easier ways to play.  Less demand should mean less price.  But the store owners can't lower the price, when their is something like MAP (Minimum Advertising Price).  Manufacturers to the middlemen, everybody wants max profit.  So, some store owners probably cheered when MAP was announced, thinking MAP could increase their profit too.  Judging from your reaction (and mine), MAP failed.

But was MAP really a failure?  Not if Tamiya planned to abandon MAP from the start.  1) Tamiya pacified US sellers; "Hey, we tried, you know it didn't work."  2) Competitors raised their prices. They hired more people and bought more machines. When Tamiya abandoned MAP, they suddenly can't pay banks the loan for the factory they built. It's a way to kill off some competitors.  3) Since a couple of them have gone out of business, they can keep somewhat higher price now.  4) Also, consumers would think $500 is good compared to $700 (even though it's still expensive than $400 before).  I am almost certain that Tamiya started MAP with a clear plan to drop 2/3.  

At the core, Tamiya has been doing the opposite of MAP.   Amazon also went for the absolute lowest price. Instead, they sell a lot more items.  Less price made Jeff Bezos the richest man.  Likewise, Tamiya was selling thousands of more kits than Kyosho and Marui at lower or competitive price.  Kyosho largely left the hobby RC field, and focuses on helicopters and 1/8th nitro. Marui focuses on Airsoft toy guns.  

The only thing middle class guys can do is to vote with our wallets.  We can't raise our salaries like Tamiya can raise MAP.  Only as one in a thousand consumer, we can show how MAP doesn't work.  

As for a kid starting out, I've seen some simpler ones.  Kits have become so complex these days, I applaud Airfix for starting simpler "Quickbuild" series.  Who's got the patience for 1000 piece tracks for 1 tank?

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"Quickbuild" series are more like Lego. But it gets your toe wet.  

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And Meng, a Chinese brand, started "Q" series.  Tanks might be originally from a game.  Both Airfix and Meng kits are about $15. 

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I got a carrier for about the same price. 

So, simpler kits are starting to come out. But these are not accurate kits, and you have to look for them.  

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10 hours ago, Juggular said:

So... yeah, that's the going price.  Especially for car kits that have big chunky molds.  The problem is, less kids these days would want the pain of building stuff when there are easier ways to play.  Less demand should mean less price.

The irritating factor is those molds have been around for decades and have payed for themselves many many times over. They literally just pull them out and and start pumping in new plastic. They didn't even have to commission new boxart for the Nova SS. Like model railroading, I suppose less demand is going to equal higher price in this case to try to make up the difference. 

Its what I used to call the small block Chevy syndrome. Small block Chevys are so popular (probably dating myself as its an LS world now, but I digress) that parts for them are the cheapest. They are in such demand, but sell at such volume, that the price can be reduced. It even goes as far as displacement. The 350 being the most common means rebuild parts for less desirable, smaller displacements like 307s or 305s are more than 350 parts. Its to the point where those smaller engines are often tossed aside, because it would be cheaper and more effective (power-wise) to find a rebuild-able 350 and go form there rather than using what you have.

Plastic models appear to have slipped into the same area comic books have. Comics were under a buck when I bought them in the 80's. Lots of reading and great stories in those old 'books too. Now, despite the popularity of the movies, they run $3.99-$4.99 with far less words to read. They used to sell in numbers in the 80's that today's publishers could only dream of too. So, like plastic models, you're left wondering, is this worth my money for the amount of joy this will provide? I'm going to guess, for the average on-off modeler shopping with his wife in Hobby Lobby, the answer is no.

 

 

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Yeah, that's pretty much the going rate. And every last one of them is made in China now. The quality of them seems OK, but the price is steep for what should be a casual purchase.

Oddly, if you know where to look, this is one realm where you can actually score better deals on original vintage NIBs than on the re--issues. I've had good luck at antique malls and flea markets over the past year or so. I keep finding the typical Monogram/AMT/MPC kits for between $5 and $15, along with a few real rarities: a Heller 1924 Citroen and a Gunze Sangyo Maserati Merak SS were $5 each, and the other day I found a beautiful Lindberg Bugatti Royale for $10. I've occasionally splurged for something that I really wanted: an Entex Lotus Esprit kit from the '70s set me back $35, and an AMT Chevy 454SS pickup (the original "New For 1990" release) was $36, I think.

It's possible to spend more, of course. You can go to eBay or some collector/trader sites and spend $150 or more on a rare MPC or Jo-Han kit, but if, like me, you're not after certain specific blue-chip models, you can find some awesome deals. And it astonishes me how many of them survived, and where you find them: how is it that a Revell '67 Plymouth GTX kit from the '80s survives unbuilt for 30+ years, and ends up in a vintage clothing/knick-knack store, sitting on the floor next to a rack of shoes? Beats me, but for $12? Sold.

I'll keep an eye out for '68-72 Nova kits. If I find one, maybe we can make a deal...

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9 hours ago, Saito2 said:

the average on-off modeler shopping with his wife in Hobby Lobby, the answer is no.

That's a "no" anyway.  At least with my wife.  lol... 

I hear you.  That's the "Maxinum profit" mode.  Nobody ever says, "I've paid for my house and kids' school. no need to make more. I'll lower the price on my products, and pay my employees more."  They'll milk as much as modelers would pay.  If you just stroll into the shop, thinking, "maybe I'll pick up something for old time's sake," you get the sticker shock.  Especially if it's been several years.  

Perhaps it's the inflation too. I remember having the same shock for a tank kit in 2010 or so. "$50? you can buy an RC car with 2 of those!!"  

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Juggular said:

Nobody ever says, "I've paid for my house and kids' school. no need to make more. I'll lower the price on my products, and pay my employees more."

Ha! It never works that way. Those at the top tend to be greedy. Human nature. Trickle down theory is a joke. They squeeze every last drop from their workers at the lowest price possible to maximize profits and money in their pockets. If nobody will work for those peanuts, or if that greed really runs amok, well its off to China we go! But remember, they really "didn't want to have to do that", it was necessary to stay competitive in today's global marketplace, blah blah blah...The wage difference between the average US worker and upper level management is obscene nowadays. The average US worker's purchasing power has gone virtually nowhere for some time now while the cost of benefits sails into the stratosphere. The whole mess hinges on that carrot on the stick: the delusion that if you work really hard in life, you too can share in all the privileges and niceties the rich do. I really would like to see how a factory would run in a co-op style environment.

BTW, I accept this is not the case everywhere and some employers do care about their workers. They may not in my part of the country, but I believe they exist. I also believe there are wealthy folks that do a lot of good with their money rather than buying a 3rd helicopter or 5th house, etc.

 

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I can remember in 1983 buying a Otaki Lamborghini 1/12 scale kit for $22!  Kits prices  for a 1/24th scale car here in Australia at a Hobby Store seem to range in the $40 to $50 range for a Tamiya kit or equivalent, yet oddly enough I can get Hotshot, Hornet, Frog etc for the same money or less as back them they were released. I think demand is a bit part of it. When I was growing up, model kits where a dime a dozen and just about every kid would have had a go at some stage, but that is a lot rarer these days. In the end its profit, competition and demand that dictates the end price. I think modelling is becoming more of an old man's hobby.

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FWIW, in the USA years of inflation means $1.00 in 1980 is now equivalent to $3.28 today (source:  https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=1&year=1980).

So if you remember model kits costing around $7-8 back in the early 80s, then those kits would/could be priced at $26.24 today.

In general I agree the re-release molds are all paid for already, but there are some kits with fresh molds.  I excitedly bought a MPC 1975 Datsun Pickup re-release kit this summer as I (poorly) assembled an original 40 years ago as a child; the product page indicates there are some new molds to replace missing parts (source:  http://round2corp.com/product/1975-datsun-pickup/). I'm just thankful a company like Round2 exists to continue some production.  Otherwise these molds and products would disappear completely.  I have to tip my hat to whoever is running Round2 and has some passion/interest to keep this going.

I'm happy to pay $25-$30 to get retro re-releases for a limited number of subjects I had as a child.  I also think the few Tamiya static model kits I purchased recently (Castrol Supra, Ferrari F40, and Toyota TS020) are simply amazing in the level of detail they include compared to their RC kits.  $25-30 for retro happiness, and $35 for ultra-detail is just fine for me with the limited number of kits I want.  I think I have less than 10 kits on display in my office, and that's about all I'll ever build -- roughly the cost of one mid-level RC chassis like a DB01R or CR01.

Sometimes I think about what would happen if the hobby industry completely collapsed.  What would I do about paint for all the Lexan shells I have?  What about electronics?  I have the mini-CNC engraver, 3D printer, color laser printer, and vinyl cutter to do quite a bit on my own, but the time investment to make a model from scratch is quite high.  Unless something is specifically a passion project, the prices charged for a box of parts and a body is not that bad for a casual effort.  On the other hand, I'd be ok cutting some FRP and aluminum L-channel, and make a basic pan car with paint roller/bicycle tube tires.  3D-print a "hard" body, and that would work.  At this point I can't take a hobby that seriously; it has to stay casual and negotiable, or it becomes a second job.

Here's a guy who spent a good amount of his adult life making a single model from scratch:

Very cool, but I'm not signing up for this level of commitment.  If the RC companies or static model companies make something that really excites me, I'll buy it.

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8 minutes ago, speedy_w_beans said:

FWIW, in the USA years of inflation means $1.00 in 1980 is now equivalent to $3.28 today (source:  https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=1&year=1980).

So if you remember model kits costing around $7-8 back in the early 80s, then those kits would/could be priced at $26.24 today.

that calculator would put my Otaki 1/12 scale kit at about $80 in today's dollars! I could only dream of paying that much now :D

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On the plus side, I saw this neat little thing at Hobby Lobby for a mere $15.

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A Metal Earth kit. It looked fascinating but very fiddly. When my fingers are up for a challenge, I plan to give one a shot.

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I discovered Metal Earth kit about 2 years ago.  

It's pretty fun.  IF everything fits.  K2SO from Star Wars turned out okay.  But Snow Speeder had some fit issues with the cannons.  You can't cut, sand or putty these things.  So looking up the reviews first would be vital.  

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i purchased a few funnny car dragsters when Hobby Lobby opened here in town a few years ago, was using the bodies & engines for my Slot Car dragster builds, i think they were in the low to mid 20 dollar range. i thought the same thing but i wanted them and this town is scarce for almost any one thing that i think is cool to purchase besides food and clothes. i remember when even Toys"R"US use to have models including rockets, now they have hardly anything that i can purchase, seems everything is on line and endless of pickings and way better prices.

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