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Carrera124

Period correct electronics and radios - yes or no?

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I am just courious...

What's your approach when you restore older models and get them running again? Maybe even when they will be only shelf-queens, but shall be kept in running condition?

When it all started with the Porsche 934 in 1976 and during the 1980s, classic two-stick radios with AM/FM 27 MHz technology were common.
During the 1990s, wheel radios widely replaced the stick types.
And today, 2.4 GHz has replaced the MHz technology.

What's your experience with running and repairing older radios/receivers from the 1980s and 1990s?
I have some sets from early 1980, and they still work fine within the house.
But outside, it looks as if there is too much interference, the range is about 10-15 meters and then the cars gets out of control.
This happens no matter which of the old systems I am using in particular.
To avoid damage to the cars, using a modern 2.4GHz combo seems to be the way to go.

As I don't like wheel radios, this is a problem. Stick radios are still available, but they are either

  • high-end, which means lots of features and great quality but high prices (e.g. Futaba T4GRS or Sanwa Exzes ZZ)
  • or rather low-end with only basic features and different levels of quality (e.g. Carson Reflex Stick, Absima SR2S or Futaba T2HR), but very low prices

These ones seem to be only survivors for all those that like stick radios to use with their RC cars.

Moreover, there are many stick radios available with 4 or 6 (or even more) channels, but intended to use with RC planes and helicopters.
Usually, these ones need mechanical modifications to lock the unwanted directions of the sticks for car use.
E.g. the Turnigy TGY-i6 and all of it's rebrandings.
But even if I pimp the stick mechanics, I don' want a radio that shows a plane in the LCD display while I am running a car :wacko:

So, how do you handle that?

  • Use modern style components, no matter how old the car is?
  • Use vintage radios etc, if you get them by occasion and if they still work?
  • Buy and repair vintage equipment, in order to get the complete car as period correct as possible?
  • Use a wild mix between old and new, just depending on what your parts stock is providing?
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In my very own way to look at RC things, I don't think it is correct to mix match a restored 30-something RC car with new radio gear. Why would anybody want to run a legendary/expensive piece of RC using a soul-less transmitter, and electronics? I understand this is just MY way of feeling this hobby. I like old RC cars AND I also love vintage RC gear. Very few things in life can be more exciting than going back in time enjoying vintage stuff the way it was! What can be better than getting to use the top-of-the-line Futaba gear combined with THAT car you could only dream of back in the day!? This is what I love about this hobby. I only like vintage stuff, I can not understand crawling or drifting -actually I feel nothing for new things. Gimme vintage Hi-Fi, vintage BMX, etcetera. That's what I like.

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AM radios are too unreliable for me to use in anything.   I use multiple Futaba 3UCP (FM) PCM stick radios for all of my models, new and old.  No glitches but still has soul and good looks.  Today's transmitters are so plasticly boring in comparison.  The hardest thing to find these days is specific RX crystal models in the frequencies I need so 2.4 GHz will be inevitable.  But I already have a 4GRS ready to go as well.  I only wish Futaba imported the 7XC into the USA, but they did not bother to get FCC certification because stick radios are so unpopular here.  I am tempted to buy one from overseas but fear customs would confiscate it due to lack of FCC certification (even though the 7PX has the exact same electronics in a pistol grip case instead of stick case).

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It depends on how you are looking at it.  

If you look at it as "things at that time," you'd want period correct stuff, because you are going with memories from that time. The purpose is the RC car itself.  That is perfectly respectable. There has to be purists who preserve things the way they were.  

Here is a comparison of vintage and re-issue done by @Hibernaculum.  I appreciate the attention paid for stuff we all love. (I forgot about hump packs!)   

https://rctoymemories.com/2013/05/15/a-quick-guide-to-vintage-vs-remake-tamiya-rc-kits/

 HS5E6RT.jpg

 

I, on the other hand, kinda switched my view to "things to run on my yard."  The purpose is not the car itself, but what it does.  Sure, my memories start from the 80's like many others.  But memories are made today too.  Now that there are re-issues, Grasshoppers are cheap and abundant.  I don't care if I break 80's Grasshopper with the old "Weber" sticker on the roof. 

I was actually quite disappointed how the look of the roof changed in re-issue.  It was supposed to be "Weber." Always!!  Not "Tamiya" with a weird logo that was made to look similar to Weber.  lol...  Because I don't want to poke a hole through that old sticker, I can't replace the driver---even though I have several driver faces painted.  The sticker and the driver are both non-functional. But I figure punctured sticker would look worse than the driver's face in the shadow.   

RXHtn7v.jpg

YFzoFHG.jpg

If I break the vintage, I'll just replace it with a new sticker, be it re-issue or re-production.  I might even paint "W."  I don't care. Whichever seems like "fun" at that time.  It will give me an excuse to replace the driver too.   

So, yeah, I'm not going for perfect restorations.  I've seen many "estate sales" with widows selling stuff in good conditions cheap.  I want mine be chipped and broken when I die, from all the fun I had.  (If you want yours to be pristine when you die, your heart is in restoration)  Mine is in runners. Period correctness isn't vital in my case.  Even with thousands of RC cars out there since the 80's, nothing runs like Wild Willy 1.  So I run it.  It can't be easily replaced.  I will be sad if I ever break it.  But the way I see it, Willy was born to run Wild.  

 

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I run all mine, so it's modern elecs throughout. I did run 27mhz, but found them to be too glitchy now, nothing to do with the 80's tech, just old things wear out and become less reliable, I've tried repairing them, swapping out pots etc, but not long down the line, something else goes faulty. Maybe not too much of a deal if you're just take them out to stretch their legs every now and then, but the final straw for me was when it stopped dead at the end of the straight at a track, and was hit ,breaking the 2 cars.

6 hours ago, Carrera124 said:

high-end, which means lots of features and great quality but high prices (e.g. Futaba T4GRS or Sanwa Exzes ZZ)

I spent years with a Core RC radio, but when that stopped working a few weeks ago , I've bitten the bullet and gone for a 2nd hand Exzes Z, not only is there alot of features (some I probably never use, or even understand how to use!) ,but it's got a great responce time, and I'm having to learn to drive again.

 

I think it's possible to retrofit new elecs into an old radio case, giving best of both worlds?

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Much prefer the features and reliability of my spectrum 3ch radio, re-started RC in 2004 with vintage equipment but within a year or so id had enough of glitches etc. It took a little while to also prefer wheel to sticks, but would never go back.

I've now actually had more fun now in restoring, building and running than on my low 80's budget! 😀

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If I restore something to run then it will have modern electronics - 2.4GHz receiver, fast-ish servo, ESC and LiPo.  That's because I like the consistency and reliability of modern stuff.  I'm not too old to remember dumping batteries, stuck MSCs, slow servos and radios that went out of range half-way across the yard.  If I restore a car then there's a chance it will get driven hard (and badly) at an Iconic race meet so I like it to be as reliable as possible.  It's all very well ruining my race because I took an old radio but if my car glitches it could ruin somebody else's race too.

But as others have said, that is my take on it and I respect people who prefer to restore with period-correct gear and to run them just as they did in the 80s.

The only reason I can see to fit a vintage or re-re car with a modern 27MHz stick radio is price - it's still a bit cheaper, and the bottom-end 2.4GHz radios can feel very cheap to hold.

If I restore or build a car for the shelf then it will get full bearings as a matter of course, but it will have a spare silvercan (or potentially an old non-functional) motor, alloy pinion and a cheap or broken servo, and no ESC or rx.  I can't afford to fill shelf cars with electronics that will never get used.

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For me personally, the joy is in the restoration, and to run a vintage hard shell model would just undo all the hard work the first time it rolled or hit something.

Can you imagine after having spent ages searching for the elusive mirrors for a Cheetah only to knock them off and loose them? 🤨

For that reason, I dont even fit radio equipment to them once they are finished, as they are only going to be shelf queens anyway, so there's little point in fitting any.

J

 

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Interesting post. When I got back into the hobby after a short break at the end of the 90's, I just pulled out all my old radio gear and started using it again. Everything I owned except my MRC Top Gun and Futaba gear had quit working (mostly Aristocraft and a few Airtronics), so Futaba got my business from there on out. Until recently (as it got phased out) I bought cheap AM stuff. I very rarely have glitching problems. Radio gear was one of the things I considered necessary evils. I oddly didn't care about it much. My laser focus was always the car, and more specifically, the mechanicals. Strange, considering how over-the -top I am about tactile sensation. Using my hands is like scratching a constant itch for me. Nowadays, I do feel so nostalgia for the old stuff.  I admit, I hate the ultra light weight feel of modern transmitters. On the other hand, perhaps their improved ergonomics offsets that light cheap feel they have. I'm slowly putting defunct, period correct gear back in my shelfers though. 

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3 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

I think it's possible to retrofit new elecs into an old radio case, giving best of both worlds?

It may depend on the devices, but my 1981 27 MHz radio/receiver works fine with modern digital servos and ESCs (even with BEC) both brushed and brushless. All I needed was to buy some adapter cables, because the receiver‘s plug system was different than today‘s standard.

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For any vintage model that comes in without transmitter/receiver/servo, I myself use the modern stuff because in my personal opinion the modern material is simply better. I want the best, not period correct.

I have a Marui Golden Eagle that came complete with its AM radio. When turned on, the servo's would 'jitter' a bit because of the low-grade antenna signal and sytem, and the car's antenna that is longer then the entire model is an eyesore. For this specific model I only took out the old speed controller and gave it an ESC so I could also loose the 4 AA batteries and holder and the ESC's seamless motor control is much gentler on those hard-to-replace gears.

Any other vintage model I have (Big Bear, Ninja, and at some point when I finish them the Samurai and Shogun) have brushed motors and get an modern ESC and a 2.4Ghz set and a strong metal-gear steering servo with metal servo saver.
No more eyesore antenna as this typically sits under the bodyshell.
No more AA batteries.
Steering servo that is rock steady when turned on and actually capable of turning the wheels at stand-still and not just flex the plastic servo-saver a bit while the wheels will only do the actual turn when the car starts rolling.

And the same goes for all the Tamiya's I have.

Would have used these better electronics back in the day if they were available and affordable. :lol:

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8 hours ago, Carrera124 said:

It may depend on the devices, but my 1981 27 MHz radio/receiver works fine with modern digital servos and ESCs (even with BEC) both brushed and brushless. All I needed was to buy some adapter cables, because the receiver‘s plug system was different than today‘s standard.

Everything worked on mine too, until it didn't, but even my 2.4ghz has stopped working, but that's had a fairly hard life, having been soaked, dropped and kicked (the latter 2 by the kids)

Time doesn't do elecs any favours , guessing it will depend on how they've been stored over the years, I bit like the tyres and plastic too.

For different plugs, instead of adapters, I chopped off the old plugs and fitted futaba plugs, looks to be the industry standard now.

 

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14 hours ago, Mad Ax said:

The only reason I can see to fit a vintage or re-re car with a modern 27MHz stick radio is price - it's still a bit cheaper...

Do you have a name or a link?

I cannot find any modern 27 MHz stick radio as a regular new item.

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10 hours ago, Carrera124 said:

Do you have a name or a link?

I cannot find any modern 27 MHz stick radio as a regular new item.

not off the top of my head, I must admit it's been ages since I even looked, I think I assumed 27MHz radios were still around and cheap.  I've just scanned at the places I used to see them and indeed they are no longer there - apologies for the incorrect info in my post.

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I really like modern electronics in vintage chassis. I get to enjoy the chassis for what it is without the hassle of unreliable vintage electronics or the worry of damaging or wearing out scarce stuff, and I enjoy the longer run times Lipos provide. I stay mild with the motor (brushed or 17.5 sensored, usually) to avoid overpowering, and spec decent digital servos. I've got 20+ models bound to one Futaba 4PX, which is 100% rock solid and very convenient, because I don't have to keep a million transmitters sorted. Nice servos and speed controls make the vintage stuff so nice to drive, so running my stuff is pure pleasure with no worries. If I have a problem, it's not the electronics and nothing catches on fire or runs away.

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I really fancy recreating my first rc, the hornet,  complete with twin servo msc setup. Maybe track down an old hitec tx too, just like bitd.

I'd probably go with a rere for better longevity and less worries when running though.

So...new car old electrics or old car new electrics...don't really matter if it's what you want. 

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I really wanted to keep my M01 original but after an operation I spent some of my recovery time rebuilding it. During that time I fitted bearings, then the msc went up in smoke so fitted a Tamiya esc. Recently getting back into the hobby I found my old acoms stick radio set doesn’t work so got an extra receiver for my new Futaba 3PV. On getting it running again it seems the old acoms as12 has had it so it’ll be getting a new basic futaba. 
 

I liked the idea of the vintage everything but I’d rather have it running well. I’ll keep the acoms gear for nostalgia purposes though!

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I had a lovely jps 79 lotus 10 years ago, all period and complete. Cleaned it up, battery took some charge, everything worked. Thought id give it one run up the road before it went on the shelf for the rest of its life.

It went about 3 meters, dived to the right and wedged itself under my cars rear tyre.

No damage fortunately but i switched it off and never ran it again. I sold it in the end (god knows why!!!).

Looks like i may be back in a similar situation next week as i have a 1978 on road tamiya coming with all period radio etc. Although i wont change out the msc, and will probably leave the period servos in, i will at least put a 2.4ghz rx in it for its one and only test run before it spends the rest of its life in my living room. It will probably get the original rx put back in purely to stop me getting tempted to take it out for a quick blast 😂

All my 80s buggies have modern radio gear as i drive them alot.

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Vintage for me, but then I don't run mine much so they're more part of the 'display' (currently a bit crowded but plan on a cabinet when I move..)

 

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As I mentioned before, my vintage cars have vintage electronics (27 MHz AM) that still works (in the house), but not outside due to too much interference.
Especially the steering servo was a problem, because it has an unique design which is not compatible to standard servo units.

So I asked someone to construct a 3D-printed adapter that fits to the original radio plate and takes a modern digital servo (Graupner DES 587 BB MG).
+ an electronic speed controller with old-school-design (Graupner Speed Profi 40R)
+ a basic-style 2-stick 2.4 GHz radio (Absima SR2S) and receiver (Absima R3FS).

If necessary, all the original stuff can be installed again without problems, there was no need to modify anything of the original parts, no new holes, nothing.
 

 

IMG_1796.jpg

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Modern radio gear is so much more reliable. I have bought some older cars with vintage radio gear installed, some of it the most expensive available in the 90's. Rarely does it work properly and sometimes it is irreparable at my skill level. It also doesn't compare to the cheapest used FHSS Futaba transmitters and receivers you can buy rather cheaply these days.

Back in the day when these older radios failed on cars and trucks, the worst that happened was running into something. My father was very active with aircraft, and I saw some pretty horrific radio-related accidents in my youth. When he brought home his first spread-spectrum frequency hopping Futaba radio, that changed the whole game.

It isn't fun to drive around and have radio glitches. It really isn't. If you want to run your car or truck with older radio gear that is fine, but I for one will never go back to it.

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On 11/18/2019 at 10:14 PM, Quailane said:

Modern radio gear is so much more reliable. I have bought some older cars with vintage radio gear installed, some of it the most expensive available in the 90's. Rarely does it work properly and sometimes it is irreparable at my skill level. It also doesn't compare to the cheapest used FHSS Futaba transmitters and receivers you can buy rather cheaply these days.

Back in the day when these older radios failed on cars and trucks, the worst that happened was running into something. My father was very active with aircraft, and I saw some pretty horrific radio-related accidents in my youth. When he brought home his first spread-spectrum frequency hopping Futaba radio, that changed the whole game.

It isn't fun to drive around and have radio glitches. It really isn't. If you want to run your car or truck with older radio gear that is fine, but I for one will never go back to it.

You nailed it. I remember car-totalling glitches, getting stomped on by some guy ignoring impound, fires, molten connectors, beautiful airplanes just flying away, short runtimes, blown FETS and all the rest of it. All of the electronics issues we used to have are gone, and I don't miss them. Modern all the way unless it's pure shelf, and honestly, I'd probably put modern electronics in a shelfer because it looks better.

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