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Tamiyold

Top Force vs TT-02B for indoor racing

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Right........ get a programme card! Much easier! I run a xr10pro in my tfe, yes its expensive but it has all the programming you need. I use a futaba digital transmitter not sure on the model but it's around the £300 mark but you can programme 40 models in it!. I will check what gear and pinion I'm running. I'm running two ball diffs in it. I opted out of using the evolution diffs as I didn't want to destroy them. Put them away for safe keeping lol. As for the diff grease good old tamiya ball diff 2 and some aw mixed together and then bench run in. (Google search it, lots of info and videos on them). I've shimmed the badword out of it before and after the bearings in the hubs. Use cvd's front and rear, also make sure to put two rubber o rings in the drive cups to add a bit of pressure into the diffs. I will check the gears and get back to you @Tamiyold

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Also as you can see the blue alloy caster blocks, think they are 8 degree tamiya ones. They greatly improve turn in. I'm running a corally hispeed servo. Hope this info helps you. 

What shocks are you using?

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Wow, thanks @ThunderDragonCy & @Turbotom for all this info! I was thinking a programming card would be a great low cost investment, I think I would rapidly loose my mind trying to program the ESC using the button! :wacko:

Unfortunately my budget is rather erm... budget, so I can't stretch to the higher end radios and ESCs. I was however considering putting the money from the TT02 to a better radio like the Sanwas I mentioned previously (probably the MX-6) and hopefully a half decent metal gear servo so I can ditch the servo saver.

I already have the CVDs on the front after one of the kit UJs destroyed itself. @Turbotom, what surface are you racing on and how many laps would you typically get to a race? I'm on carpet and my best race has been 15 laps in 5 minutes, the best racers at the club are doing 23 so I have room for improvement. Last week I was running 69/21 but I have bought 22 and 23t pinions for more options.

As I have said before there is a (stubborn) part of me that wants to prove to the naysayers in the club that I can do better with the Top Force. There was a guy who turned up with a brushless Manta Ray and was doing very well at keeping up with the top drivers, until he hit something and broke the front gearbox lower cover! I think I just have to try not to crash and turn down the heat on the ESC a bit.

I'll see how I go with the 2WD buggy I have been lent, I've transferred all the electronics I have to it so I may as well give it a go. As long as I don't break anything on it I may save a bit of money not having to buy spares for the Top Force!

Mark

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@TurbotomI'm still on NiMH batteries for now, I have an old Hi-Tec ball bearing servo which is ok but could be better. I have the re re hi cap dampers and I have moved the tie rods in on the steering knuckles to get more turn in, still needs more though! It's not only my driving ability that needs time to come back, I'm learning how to set the car up almost from scratch, I used to race touring cars so jumps are a new thing!

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8 minutes ago, Tamiyold said:

Wow, thanks @ThunderDragonCy & @Turbotom for all this info! I was thinking a programming card would be a great low cost investment, I think I would rapidly loose my mind trying to program the ESC using the button! :wacko:

Unfortunately my budget is rather erm... budget, so I can't stretch to the higher end radios and ESCs. I was however considering putting the money from the TT02 to a better radio like the Sanwas I mentioned previously (probably the MX-6) and hopefully a half decent metal gear servo so I can ditch the servo saver.

I already have the CVDs on the front after one of the kit UJs destroyed itself. @Turbotom, what surface are you racing on and how many laps would you typically get to a race? I'm on carpet and my best race has been 15 laps in 5 minutes, the best racers at the club are doing 23 so I have room for improvement. Last week I was running 69/21 but I have bought 22 and 23t pinions for more options.

As I have said before there is a (stubborn) part of me that wants to prove to the naysayers in the club that I can do better with the Top Force. There was a guy who turned up with a brushless Manta Ray and was doing very well at keeping up with the top drivers, until he hit something and broke the front gearbox lower cover! I think I just have to try not to crash and turn down the heat on the ESC a bit.

I'll see how I go with the 2WD buggy I have been lent, I've transferred all the electronics I have to it so I may as well give it a go. As long as I don't break anything on it I may save a bit of money not having to buy spares for the Top Force!

Mark

I race in 17.5 blinky touring car with the 10bl120 and a flysky radio. I am nowhere near winning, but it's me and car setup limiting me, not the esc and radio and i can lap fairly consistently now. Lipo is a must though. Spend 40 quid on a shorty lipo and then a bit extra on the fireproof sack and what have you. They are so much better than nimh. 

As for setup, i feel your pain! On carpet i would say you probably need low ride height, maybe only 18mm or even lower. Big issue is a lack of anti roll bars for high grip like that. I have seen a top force with sway bars this week on facebook but i don't know how they are fitted. 

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Where the drive shaft goes through to the bearings and on the outside where you fit the drive hex. Also on the prop shaft around the bearings to stop any slop which loses power. 

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5 minutes ago, Turbotom said:

Where the drive shaft goes through to the bearings and on the outside where you fit the drive hex. Also on the prop shaft around the bearings to stop any slop which loses power. 

Got pics? I follow but the where is not entirely clear 

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You don't need lots of money, just practice. Set up is key. I race on polished wooden sports hall floor where there is no much grip so stiffer is the key, then when I race at the Schumacher masters in worksop it a rubber compound floor that requires a softer set up. Touring car set up transferred to the buggy is a good start, you just need to increase the ride hight to around 18mm with a good quality 350 shock oil.

As for anti roll bars I'm in the process of fitting some bars from a cat l1 onto my tfe. 

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12 hours ago, Tamiyold said:

. There was a guy who turned up with a brushless Manta Ray and was doing very well at keeping up with the top drivers, until he hit something and broke the front gearbox lower cover! I think I just have to try not to crash and turn down the heat on the ESC a bit.

When I began researching the use of Tamiya in competition, the phrase, "if you want to win, you have to be able to first (minimally) finish the race" came up. I gather their non-TRF efforts simply aren't able to take abuse like other, more race oriented, brands.

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Like any form of racing, you crash or drive badly you are going to get damage. I also race a cat L1 and yes it's a new modern car but it still gets damaged. A badly set up car will be harder to drive and inevitably be likely to crash and get damaged!.

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14 hours ago, Turbotom said:

I will put some pictures of the shims tomorrow. 

Cheers!

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The picture shows a 0.2mm shim on the outside of the bearing. There are also shims on the inside. You can buy 10 0.2mma shims on Ebay. I normally use 0.2mm and 0.5mm. The idea is to remove any slack which saps power and causes wheel wobble, hope the info helps @matisse @Tamiyold

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Worksop rc club this Sunday. Look on Facebook at the track. I will let you know how it goes !

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Slight Necro, going to put my TF into racing once more, it's in a EVO+ form right now. Just ordered the speed tune set, will be updating the diffs to evo spec and complete installing of all titanium screws due to a gold mind find of a hobby store stock full of vintage hop ups. 

OP how'd you fair against the competition?

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@GTodd I did OK but I wasn't in the top heats as my driving skills are still rusty after a long break from racing. Once I changed to 8.5T brushless power the TF was certainly quick but then I stripped two diff pressure plates. I managed to get hold of the speed tuned gear set but didn't get much chance to test it before lockdown, I think a bigger pinion and smaller spur would reduce the torque through the drive train and hopefully reduce the chance of further pressure plate spline strippage, I may also try a recommendation I saw from Jamie Booth and super glue the out drives in. Also the next time I race the TF I may try a slightly milder motor.

Until I get my driving back up to scratch I'm driving a borrowed 2WD Team C buggy that is a bit easier to drive and a little more robust - the TF seems a bit fragile with the modern grippy tyres and brushless motors, or it could just be my driving!

Let us know how you get on, it sounds as though you will have your TF properly hopped up!

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I have tried silicon on the splines before, which didn't last long. The next time I need to fix them rather than try super glue or epoxy,  I am going to try shoo goo. It should be stiff enough not to let them move but not as permanent. If you try super glue I would try a gel type like I have,  it makes it less likely for it to go everywhere!

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It's frustrating how weak the pressure plates are, I stripped them when I was running brushed motors in my Manta Ray in the 90s so they were probably never really up to the task. I wonder if super glue could be a bit too permanent, but if I did do that I probably wouldn't use the stuff I have for my tyres, it's like water and would definitely go everywhere! 

I'm surprised no one has made an improved version of the pressure plates, there are a number of people out there making CNC machined alloy bits for the TF. I wonder if something with a square drive might be better and less likely to strip.

I reckon I need to convince the club I race at to start a vintage heat so I can race the TF against similar competition.

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