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Tamiyold

Top Force vs TT-02B for indoor racing

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Good evening fellow Tamiya racers

I have just started indoor racing again after a break of about 15 years and as the title suggests, I have a Top Force (2017) and a TT-02B.

My first two race meetings have been with the TF, and apart from the kit motor being a bit slow it hasn't been too bad on the flat bits bit the jumps have been a bit more challenging set up wise.

If I keep on trying with the TF what's the best set up to cope with jumps and still give grip on the carpet? I have hicaps with 40wt oil and two hole pistons on the front with three on the back together with Tamiya block spike tyres.  I'd like to try the TT-02B but the stock steering isn't enough, I've seen extreme steering angle arms for the TT-02 drifters but I think they might be too extreme for the buggy, plus it still seems a little under damped with 40wt oil in the kit shocks.

I'm interested to know what you all think.

Mark

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I am yet to build my Top Force but have taken a TT02B to the track. Looking at the 2 kits i think the Top Force will be the better bet but can't be sure until early next year when I take the Top Force to a race meet.

The TT02B is heavy and the longitudinal battery makes controlling the jumps in the air difficult - you basically can't.  It may be ok if you run a shorty lipo, and probably pushed to the front to even up the weight balance. Neither have a slipper or centre diff either, so no difference there and both have rear(ish) motors as well.

I can't think of a modern buggy with a similar setup you could copy set up sheets from either, sorry no help at all!

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Thanks for the input Jonathon it is useful, the TF suspension does seem to be a bit more adjustable, especially since I got the hicaps. I'm considering going to thicker oil in the front shocks to get a bit more damping. I think I may be backing off a bit too much over some of the jumps, the car nosedives off the bigger ones if I go a bit too slow.

To  speed things up a bit I've ordered an Absima 14t motor which is pretty much as hot as I can go with the Quicrun 1060 ESC, although I'll still lag behind the brushless guys with their 9t speed machines! I'd like to go brushless and lipo but funds are tight so that will have to wait - especially as I still have to buy a transponder and I don't want to shred the gearboxes!

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Anothef good point - the TT02B has fixed arms for everything so you cant adjust camber and toe. I have bought turnbuckles for my top force but its easy enough to pop an end off to adjust them

Do you have the hign speed gears, 47393? You will probably need it to get the FDR low enough for brushless motors. 

If the car nosedives then blip the throttle while in the air, that shoukd bring the nose back up. Except in a TT02B...

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I do have the carbon shock towers for the TT02B that came with a full set of turnbuckles so I could tune the suspension, it's just that battery position... I think I will persevere with the TF for now. I don't have the speed tuned gear set ATM, I can add that to the list of hop-ups!

Is a carbon chassis worth the investment or would I be better off sticking with the FRP and spending the money on other upgrades? I was considering the TFE type shock towers to give more options for damper top mount positions.

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Hi, I am guessing if you are racing indoors it is on carpet?  If so is it a medium grey colour,  or black?  The most important thing to get right is the tyres,  then you tune from there. 

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Yes it's indoors on dark grey carpet, I believe it's EOS. Currently using Tamiya dual block tyres which seem to give pretty good levels of grip. Will be running with the 14t Absima motor this week, probably with an 18t pinion, hoping things don't get too warm. I think my next upgrade will be ditching the Tamiya bullets on the motor wires to reduce resistance.

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Most people would run Schumacher fusion tyres on the front,  and the cactus on the rear in the yellow compound and medium foam inserts on EOS carpet. Getting rid of the bullet connectors for reliability is a good idea too. 

 

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Thanks for the advice Stuey, I'll probably get some of the Schumacher tyres when the Tamiyas wear out. One the other club members advised me to cut two or three rows of spikes from the front tyres to reduce the amount of grip.

Even with the 14t motor and a 17t pinion I didn't think I was getting that much more speed out of the car, I think a lot of energy was being lost through heat! I'm just waiting for my soldering iron to be delivered so I can get the motor connectors and wire upgraded.

I also ordered some shims so I can work on reducing the play in the suspension.

Then I need to work on getting my driving back to where it was 15 years ago, I was using sticks back then so I now have to get used to a wheel as well 😀

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I'm just soldering new wire and connectors to the 14t motor and wondering if I need the big fibre gasket that goes between the motor and the mount. Would I be correct in thinking I don't need it with the alloy mount? Don't think I ran one "in the old days"!

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On 11/27/2019 at 7:17 PM, Tamiyold said:

I'm just soldering new wire and connectors to the 14t motor and wondering if I need the big fibre gasket that goes between the motor and the mount. Would I be correct in thinking I don't need it with the alloy mount? Don't think I ran one "in the old days"!

If your racing environment is clean and/or your motor has no front vents, then the gasket is unnecessary. However if running in less than perfectly clean conditions with a motor that features front vents, the gasket is useful for preventing debris from entering your gearbox via your motor innards.

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Ran without the gasket, the end of the motor doesn't have much in the way of vents that would allow things to get into the gearbox.

However I am wondering if the motor is getting too hot, it's too hot to touch for more than a second or two after a five minute race, is that to be expected or is it too hot? I'm running the kit spur with a 19t pinion.

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The TF is out of action now due to a broken front universal, judging by the clicking noise it was making it was on the way out even before I fitted the brushless set up (8.5T Speed Passion) - it broke half way through the second race using it. I'm now waiting for Tamiya CVDs to arrive which I hope will last a lot longer!

After finding the recommended gear ratios for the Speed Passion motor (6.5:1 - 8:1) I'm thinking the Skyline speed tuned gear set (if I can get one) would be worth trying so I can get the ratio in the right range, assuming those ratios are for the final drive. I think an email to Tony's Tamiya Parts is in order.

I've been running the TT02 while the TF was out of action, was good to drive except for the nose-diving off the jumps!

Fingers crossed the TF with CVDs will handle the brushless speed and the carpet grip.

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Well, this is a first. Managed to shear the end of one of the rear axles off at my Friday night race meet! Have ordered a couple of stainless steel replacements. I was considering using cheaper CVDs or Tamiya UJs on the back but replacing axles is a lot cheaper!

spacer.png

Apart from that mishap the TF seems to be OK with the brushless motor (with NiMHs) and a 21t pinion with the standard spur. Was struggling for low speed grip on the front and was told by other members I should run a lot stiffer shock oil and springs, does anyone know which springs will fit the hi-caps? I tried some tt-02 springs but they are too small, I'm thinking of going to 70wt oil from the 40 I have already and try to set the ride height so that the wishbones are level. In case anyone was wondering I'm running Schumacher cactus yellow on the rear and fusion on the front, both with medium foam inserts.

Mark

Edit: I did a quick search, found an Egress thread where they have used Losi springs on the Hi-Caps so I'll look them up.

Edited by Tamiyold
Update

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Something else that started happening on Friday is the two screws on the base of the rear gearbox are coming loose. I have to tighten them after every race , would M3 screws be worth trying or will they just make things worse?

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2 minutes ago, Tamiyold said:

Something else that started happening on Friday is the two screws on the base of the rear gearbox are coming loose. I have to tighten them after every race , would M3 screws be worth trying or will they just make things worse?

Which screws? There is a mod you can do where you drill right through the gearbox case and use a long bolt with a nut on the end. I'm nit sure which screws you can replace this way but it has come up in a number of build threads on here (check all the DF01, Top Force, Manta Ray etc)

The other thing you can do is use superglue to hold them in, or buy a new gear box case

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It won't work for them unfortunately.  I would try superglue to see if that holds.  Failing that you can fill the hole in and cut a new thread (vague answer as I've read about people doing that on here, but I'm not sure what they do).  I wouldn't drill it out and use a bigger screw because that would also require drilling a bigger hole in the chassis plate and its pretty close to the edge as it is.  

Or buy a new gear box mount, which isn't that expensive but doesn't appear in stock at the usual places I look at.

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