Explain this overpowered future to me...

[Saito2 6677]

I can honestly say, as a kid, I would have never dreamed Tamiya would re-release any vintage models. I also never would have dreamed of the power that's readily available to run RC cars today. The RC hobby can be different for everybody. But I'm curious, what is the appeal of ridiculously overpowering vintage-design models to the brink of destruction and past the realm of controllability? This isn't a criticism for those that do. I'm not one of them. I tried putting too much brushless power into a couple older chassis and found it frustrating and annoying plus destructive. Its not for me. That's not to say its wrong, just not my cup of tea. I admit its confusing to me when I see tires flung out to the shape of pizza cutters, cars turning themselves inside out trying vainly to put all that power down or Lunch Boxes flat out shattered from impacts at that speed. Enlighten me, whats the allure? Please, I'm just looking for insight, not to start an argument on how our cars should be used. Different strokes for different folks. There's no right or wrong way to enjoy the hobby (ok, I'd wouldn't advise smuggling drugs in an RC ).

[Boomerang_kid 18]

Best to stick to brushed standard 540 cans for a lot of older tamiya models for the lower end of the spectrum. Their transmissions aren't designed for newer powerful BL motors. Unless you are running a TTC or TE Stealth or similar vintage trannys. My King cab and  madcap with the ball diff transmissions wouldn't last long with a brushless set up.  However my OG Super Astute runs a 10.5 brushless with no problems, same with my Rc10 with stealth transmissions. But I would not run my 6 gear Rc10 with a brushless motor unless it was maybe 21 turn, but never tried as the 17 turn Brushed motor is fine. I am yet to run my Egress or Avante 2001 but I'm sure that will be fine with a BL setup as long as its not to crazy. I have a 5.5 turn BL motor doing nothing but I ain't using that on any vintage cars unless I want to destroy them.

 

[The Twingo Lord 31]

3 hours ago, Saito2 said:

I can honestly say, as a kid, I would have never dreamed Tamiya would re-release any vintage models. I also never would have dreamed of the power that's readily available to run RC cars today. The RC hobby can be different for everybody. But I'm curious, what is the appeal of ridiculously overpowering vintage-design models to the brink of destruction and past the realm of controllability? This isn't a criticism for those that do. I'm not one of them. I tried putting too much brushless power into a couple older chassis and found it frustrating and annoying plus destructive. Its not for me. That's not to say its wrong, just not my cup of tea. I admit its confusing to me when I see tires flung out to the shape of pizza cutters, cars turning themselves inside out trying vainly to put all that power down or Lunch Boxes flat out shattered from impacts at that speed. Enlighten me, whats the allure? Please, I'm just looking for insight, not to start an argument on how our cars should be used. Different strokes for different folks. There's no right or wrong way to enjoy the hobby (ok, I'd wouldn't advise smuggling drugs in an RC ).

I think it’s mostly lunchboxes, and it’s just stupid fun imo, I wouldn’t do it to a clod, or a grasshopper, but the lunchbox was dumb from the start, so we just make it more dumb!

[Aerobert 2125]

I am like to run my Blitzer Beetle with an 3600 kv brushless system on 2S. But for me this is the upper end of power an rc car needs. With a "little" bit more power and speed it is a lot of fun to run it on the beach or to let it jump over some ramps.

But what I can't understand is this: Today I received an e-mail news letter were the new Arrma Kraton 4x4 was offered. It is a 1/5 scale, 11 kg stadium truck, powered with 8S(!) and a top speed of 90 km/h. What make me curious is who buy 1000 Euro RTR RC cars?And are people who drive those trucks aware about the damage they can cause with that? 

[The Twingo Lord 31]

37 minutes ago, Aerobert said:

I am like to run my Blitzer Beetle with an 3600 kv brushless system on 2S. But for me this is the upper end of power an rc car needs. With a "little" bit more power and speed it is a lot of fun to run it on the beach or to let it jump over some ramps.

But what I can't understand is this: Today I received an e-mail news letter were the new Arrma Kraton 4x4 was offered. It is a 1/5 scale, 11 kg stadium truck, powered with 8S(!) and a top speed of 90 km/h. What make me curious is who buy 1000 Euro RTR RC cars?And are people who drive those trucks aware about the damage they can cause with that? 

They don’t drive it on the road, they drive it on their own property, or somewhere else where there aren’t people around. It’s fun to just be able to pop a battery in a truck and go drive, and not have something that’s finicky. I have an arrma Notorious, which is 6s, 100kmh, but I am careful when I drive it, it’s not like my lunchbox, I’m not really attached to it as much as with my lunchbox.  

[Losi XXT-CR 147]

I have a modded Lunchbox, not sure it fits what the op is stating. Mine has a 12x6 brushed racing motor and ESC. It is more fun than it was stock. Plus tinkering on such things is half the fun anyway.

[markbt73 5311]

I think the only real answer is "because they can." We're in an age of cheap and easy horsepower. Why not try silly things with it?

But I think what you're asking is "why KEEP doing silly things with it?" Why keep going after the first broken A-arm or stripped gear? That I can't answer. I get trying it; I don't get insisting on it. And I kind of feel like if you insist on pushing something right out to the ragged edge all the time, well past what it was designed for, you can't really be upset or surprised when something breaks. When someone asks, "This keeps breaking, what can I do to stop it?", the only real answer is "Go a little easier on it."

As for the "80 MPH Out Of The Box!" RTRs, I'm at a complete loss. Don't get it at all. But then, I don't understand why you'd want 700 horsepower and launch control on a street-driven car, either... I guess I'm just not the target demographic.

[The Twingo Lord 31]

13 minutes ago, markbt73 said:

I think the only real answer is "because they can." We're in an age of cheap and easy horsepower. Why not try silly things with it?

But I think what you're asking is "why KEEP doing silly things with it?" Why keep going after the first broken A-arm or stripped gear? That I can't answer. I get trying it; I don't get insisting on it. And I kind of feel like if you insist on pushing something right out to the ragged edge all the time, well past what it was designed for, you can't really be upset or surprised when something breaks. When someone asks, "This keeps breaking, what can I do to stop it?", the only real answer is "Go a little easier on it."

As for the "80 MPH Out Of The Box!" RTRs, I'm at a complete loss. Don't get it at all. But then, I don't understand why you'd want 700 horsepower and launch control on a street-driven car, either... I guess I'm just not the target demographic.

The rtrs, if it’s an mt, it’s for just sending it, the on road ones I don’t get, but the arrma Notorious is made for jumping, and it’s just fun, and you don’t have to worry about it.

[Oneball1971 127]

I suppose it's like when we turned 17yrs old and get your first car and put a better quality radio cassette in it, loud exhaust, air filter and tune it up to make it "better". So what I'm trying to say is, we are all 17 again and doing it with our models now 🙂

[Shodog 1835]

I get what your saying. I read about people putting brushless systems in vintage cars and I think to myself well that car is going to get destroyed

On several occasions I have killed all the fun of a car by putting in something too fast.  My X-ray t1 with 5800kv brushless is just uncontrollable. 

On the flip side I love the insane speed of my Traxxas UDR and Traxxas Slash VXL

some vehicles can take the speed but most can’t

 

 

[Bromley 681]

I have a dozen or so Tamiya cars (none vintage), but in my opinion, only a couple really lend themselves to modern brushless power.

I have a 4370kv combo in my Stadium Thunder and that's a hoot, popping wheelies on command. The blitzer chassis can handle that sort of power quite happily. I've only run it on 2s as of now, but that's plenty fast for my tastes.

The older Tamiya designs, before the 4wd buggy era are maybe better suited to more mild brushed motors. (15t plus as an example) But hey if you want a 50mph Sand Scorcher..why not.

And there is no limit when it comes to the Lunchbox....everybody knows that!😁

[The Twingo Lord 31]

50 minutes ago, Bromley said:

I have a dozen or so Tamiya cars (none vintage), but in my opinion, only a couple really lend themselves to modern brushless power.

I have a 4370kv combo in my Stadium Thunder and that's a hoot, popping wheelies on command. The blitzer chassis can handle that sort of power quite happily. I've only run it on 2s as of now, but that's plenty fast for my tastes.

The older Tamiya designs, before the 4wd buggy era are maybe better suited to more mild brushed motors. (15t plus as an example) But hey if you want a 50mph Sand Scorcher..why not.

And there is no limit when it comes to the Lunchbox....everybody knows that!😁

Agreed, I wouldn’t mess up an original, but a rere? It’s still being produced, it can be replaced!

[MockTurtle 239]

3 hours ago, Bromley said:

And there is no limit when it comes to the Lunchbox....everybody knows that!😁

my fastest motor is just 4000kv,... but it belongs to the lunchbox.

stupid fun is the right description!

 

[tamiya ny 18]

are we talking only vintage buggys or onroad chassis as well.i have brushless in a f103gt and its driving on that razors edge that makes it exciting.

[Wooders28 4719]

Having tamiya's with the actual power and speed (and some!) which the 80's promo vids implied.

Having modern cars with low turn brushless, then going to a silver can seems soooo slow.

People saying it's ,stupid and /or it can't be done, and the challenge of going about getting it done!

I've put some serious power through some tamiya's, and they've all taken it (5s Dark Impact/ Neo Fighter and 4s boomerang is next on the list), but, understandably, without slippers and other control measures (punch control , throttle curve etc), just whacking them to full throttle isn't going to end well. So the enjoyment is finding ways to get around it. Whether it be modifying / fitting modern slipper clutches into a vintage chassis (Mid custom), fitting whole new gearboxes (Ultima) or finding ways of strengthing internals (helicopter pinion replacing the aluminum main shaft gear etc on the dark impact)

Imo, what's the worst that could happen? you crash and damage parts? damage gears? You then need to buy spares, keeping the model shops / suppliers and tamiya in business! 🤷‍♂️

[Wooders28 4719]

8 hours ago, Aerobert said:

What make me curious is who buy 1000 Euro RTR RC cars?And are people who drive those trucks aware about the damage they can cause with that? 

I doubt there's many clueless, first time buyers going to spend that kind of cash, you find it's people who already have a collection and , into, the hobby.

[Saito2 6677]

6 hours ago, markbt73 said:

But I think what you're asking is "why KEEP doing silly things with it?" Why keep going after the first broken A-arm or stripped gear? That I can't answer. I get trying it; I don't get insisting on it.

Exactly. Once getting over the thrill of overpowering something, particularly a re-release of an old design, why keep driving it into the ground? I guess part of it was I had to earn everything which was hard and took time. I had to save up for my first 1:1  car, a comparatively powerful for the time but clapped-out Chevy Nova. I had to buy the tires for it. I had to keep it running. My friends always tried to egg me on to do stupid burn-outs and such. I'm not saying I was an angel behind the wheel, but when you're paying the bills, you're more respectful towards it. My first Tamiya was no different. As such, I think it set the tone for how I treat things in adulthood.

I've watched videos of say, an HPI Savage Flux. Its completely uncontrollable at full throttle. After the initial "wow" factor wore off, I'd be annoyed of its uncontrollability. The Flux is at least designed around that kind of power, vintage-design Tamiyas are not, so they break. I can get behind pushing them to the max of their handling and durability as a challenge, if that's your thing. Just bludgeon it to death? I'm lost. But I'm also a cranky old curmudgeon too so that doesn't help .  

[87lc2 2659]

Interesting topic.  I got heavily back into RC about 5 years ago and first thing I did was get caught up on all of the new technology and of course I was amazed at what brushless systems have done for the hobby.  Not to mention Lipo batteries.  I remember the first time I put a 3s lipo into a stock Clod, that did not end well.  Ended up virtually destroying an original body.

I put overpowered brushless systems into a few older Tamiyas and found out quickly that it was neat for the first few pulls of the throttle, but not practical and completely unecessary to enjoy the vehicle as it was designed.  Just as you said above.

Since then most of my vintage cars are back to stock silver cans and I like them that way.  I do have a lot of modern vehicles built for brushless that I enjoy, but that's mostly because they can handle it.  I also realized quickly that an appropriate sized brushless system needs to be taken into consideration.

There is one vintage Tamiya that I still run a brushless system in and I absolutely love it - the Madbull.  It's a 3300kv system if I remember correctly and believe it or not it handles the power quite well when driven properly.  Ironically, this was purcahsed from you Saito a few years back - thanks again!

[Jonathon Gillham 4605]

I don't understand overpowering them either, and that goes for any, modern or new. I think it needs to be appropriate for the area you are running in. We either race at a club so meet class rules, or run in the backyard so silvercans and 2s lipo or NiMH packs. The race cars do come out in the backyard but they are too fast, and they are 17.5T blinky cars. 

If you gear a car properly for the motor there isn't that much in it anyway, even the slow 21.5T onroad or 17.5T offroad cars are crazy fast. 

One reason I can think of for a low turn motor in a Tamiya is the gearing is so limited. A Boomerang needs 13.5T with the biggest pinion but 10.5T would probably be better. My Top Force may end up with a crazy fast motor though, just cos it can.

[Juggular 4961]

Because "more" = "happiness."  (no, that's a big NO)

As living creatures, we are programmed to want more.  If we are hungry, 20 nuts satisfy us more than 10.  We think eating 100,000 nuts would make us really happy (No, we'd die).  $100 shocks would be better than $20 shocks.  5500kv would be better than 3500kv.  3S would be better than 2S.  Some women think 10 plastic surgeries would make them look better than with 1 surgery.  They lose perspective and end up looking like a weird mask.  

I'm guilty too. (no, I never got any plastic surgery)  I've got 3 dozen RC cars.  What does CC01 have that can't be done by... well, CC01 is rather unique.  You see, that's how it goes.  This thread is good.  It reminds us that we should enjoy what we have, instead of looking for "more."   

If we keep postponing satisfaction until the next mod, we will never be happy.  There will never be the final mod that will satisfy everything.  It becomes perpetual carrot chasing.  We eventually quit RC unsatisfied.  But if we are happy with little things like saving the car from rolling over at a sharp corner, we can stay in it.  Ask not what RC can do for you, ask what you can do to RC. (lol... I'm making no sense...)  

 

[dannymulder 766]

For me if I must run my cars on silvercans or brushed motors, I get bored with the low speed and power and then get out of this hobby real quick, I can not enjoy a real slow rc car except for a crawler of trail truck.

Are my tamiya cars 60mph rockets, no they are not,  I choose the right brushless motor for the car for , example my wt-01 is my favoritie car but I think the top speed is 30 mhp.

I don,t get it when I see people try to put 3s or 4s systeems in to tamiya cars like the tt-02, 2s  power is enough for them.

But I also don't get it when I see people on this forum love to drive slow bouncy clodbusters with silvercans for me that is no fun, but thats is a good thing that we people are different in wat we like and what gives a smile on our face.

I like the speed and power off brushless motors and lipo, I run most of the time on the beach and there you need more power then a silvercan or brushed motor, in the soft sand you get stuck with a brushed motor or go reel slow.

[Pablo68 1049]

I'm running most of my vintage cars on brushed motors, some silvercan range, others a bit better than stock. They are all ball-raced btw.
My Blitzer Beetle and Monster Beetle are brushless, as are a few of the racing buggies I have.

I also have a Traxxas slash with a vxl brushless system in it, and an XO-1, which is frankly insane and doesn't get used often.

I once put the VXL system into my Hornet, just cause. It was fun, but not controllable. It did back flips.

So what am I saying here? Not sure myself tbh. I do like to bash at insane speeds from time to time, but not with my Tamiya Buggies. I would like to be able to get brushless systems with motors around the 20-17.5 turn range for my Tamiya cars, but they seem really hard to find to me, and a bit pricy when I do. Another bugbear is the ESC's being super bulky.

But it is what it is.

[Saito2 6677]

I think I'm gaining some perspective on this. Thanks guys. Crawlers are too slow and boring for me. I can dig their appeal, but its not for me. I can understand how any "too slow" RC may cause loss of interest for some. Perhaps its that seat-of-the -pants thrill of being on the ragged edge of controlability/uncontrolability. Makes some sense (especially if replacement parts are available). I've also met those who just enjoy thrashing stuff. People that do burnouts until a piston makes a hasty exit through an engine block or simple demolition derbies are just beyond my comprehension. I guess some motivations will just escape my grasp of discovering "why", which is fine too.

16 hours ago, The Twingo Lord said:

it’s for just sending it,

I've seen this phrase turn up from time to time. Could anyone enlighten me?  Where/how are these things being sent? I know, if you gotta ask, you're probably too old. 

[LeftyAl 164]

send=launch... normally over a jump and containing lots of air time.

[Wooders28 4719]

17 hours ago, markbt73 said:

When someone asks, "This keeps breaking, what can I do to stop it?", the only real answer is "Go a little easier on it."

The other option is to find a way to strengthen the weak part, trawl through manuals, personal knowledge grey matter, the world wide web, and if nothing is available off the shelf, make it!! (or if it's a super cheap ,easy to replace part then...) 

10 hours ago, Saito2 said:

My friends always tried to egg me on to do stupid burn-outs and such.

I would be that friend, I'd also be the friend that would be frantically trying to swap out a gearbox at midnight, usually in the rain, as the diff would have been left on the road somewhere ,to get to work in the morning! 

I've always worked hard ,usually more than one job, to pay for my A̶d̶d̶i̶c̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶ hobbies, whether it be RC cars, or 1:1 cars, and I've always done the work myself (although now with the 1:1, I'm tending to just drop it off at a local garage, as I can earn more doing an extra shift, than spending a day pulling a clutch, in the rain naturally...). I don't know if I've been lucky, my school had a fully kitted out workshop ,lathe , milling machine, press and even a vac former! My work places have always had a workshop, but that's the line of work I'm in, so I've made jigs and surface ground my own heads, decked blocks etc etc, so if something breaks I generally want to modify it so it doesn't break again, not too much power, just not enough engineering! 😁

 

30 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

People that do burnouts until a piston makes a hasty exit through an engine block or simple demolition derbies are just beyond my comprehension

Demolition derbies I can kind of understand, cars that would just be going to the crusher and be bean tins anyway, having one last hurra, but bouncing off a limiter (or until valve bounce) until an engine goes pop? Nope don't get that either.