Frog Jumper 3662 Posted December 8, 2019 Like many others, I've tried the 12mm hex / bearing thingy that is supposed to allow you to add 12mm hex wheels to the stock Blackfoot static front axle. I've had limited success, and haven't really liked the results. I've seen some other BF drivers use parts from other models to Mod their front axle knuckles to carry a rotating axle carried by bearings so that they can use 12mm hex wheels... This is my own Mod Project, to see if I can build something that can pass muster and be incorporated as a permanent Hop-Up on the Bushy D... ---------- Here is the part we want to replace. Its a well worn vintage Parma zero-bump steer knuckle mounted in a standard BF front hub on the Bushy D. ---------- Here are some of the parts I bought this week, left top to right bottom: Tamiya #50875 5mm ball connectors Tamiya #9805825 long 5mm ball connctors for Hotshot. Tamiya #51250 DF-03 C Parts. We want the knuckles. I might try to use the steering parts in another Mod one day in the future... Traxxas #3637. This is a 5mm axle. The threads are different from standard Tamiya, so I needed the Traxxas nuts (#3647). I later found some in my spare parts bin, so they aren't pictured here. Tamiya standard front Hubs with hardware. I ordered some 3x32 pins, but they haven't arrived yet. Luckily, I had some old ones in my spare parts bin. 1150 bearings. You can never have too many bearings... I also ordered some Traxxas 2wd Stampede front axle 12mm hubs, but they haven't arrived. You can also see my Parma knuckle and hardware... ---------- First thing first was to modify the DF-03 knuckle to fit into the BF Hub. The Parma knuckle was 20mm tall, and the DF-03 knuckle was 24mm tall. I had to use the "hot knife" trick to shave the parts. I shaved more off the bottom so as to lower the center-line of the axle as close to the center-line of the Parma knuckle, ie I shaved 3mm off the bottom and only 1mm off the top. Here is the first one next to an un-cut one: and here is the same next to the Parma knuckle: I also fit one of the Hotshot ball-studs to see how it compares to the Parma. This solution is obviously too short and we will need something taller... ---------- Once cut, I test fitted into one of the BF Hubs, with the axle and bearings. I had to use a needle file to ream out the top and bottom holes on the DF-03 knuckles so the 3x32 pins could pass through without any friction. After a few minutes of work, they fit and rotate just fine. The axle also does not rub on the 3x32 pin. The center-line of the axle is slightly higher than the Parma (so the BF will sit slightly lower), and again we can see the ball-stud is too short. The steering arm is sits slightly further back than the Parma. But the axle is the same length, and should be workable... ---------- My next step was to make the ball-stud taller. I ended up ditching the Hotshot studs, and using some standard shorties I found in my spare parts bin. I also used ORV Part #MR3 and a couple of M3 screws... ---------- Here are the parts I ended up using so far: ---------- My next step will be to mount the kit onto the Bushy D and test fit some 12mm hex wheels. My first test will be to move the rear wheels to the front and see how they work. But first I need the Traxxas front 12mm hexes... Terry 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
graemevw 823 Posted December 8, 2019 I did something similar with df03 parts to get tlt wheels onto my blackfoot. I had to add some steering stops though to stop the wheels rubbing, but that may depend on the wheels, and i lowered the body too. I cant remember what the wheels were hitting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frog Jumper 3662 Posted December 8, 2019 1 minute ago, graemevw said: I did something similar with df03 parts to get tlt wheels onto my blackfoot. Pictures please! Terry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
graemevw 823 Posted December 8, 2019 Took a pic so you can see the bit of sprue i stuck to it to limit steering. Want any others? I never did get round to sorting the steering rods and ball height. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frog Jumper 3662 Posted December 8, 2019 If anyone has done a similar Mod, please let me know what parts you used. Pictures would be nice too... Also, I would like to use Tamiya products as much as possible. If someone can recommend a similar Tamiya front axle, I would prefer to use that instead of the Traxxas one. I just couldn't find one in my EBAY searches... My only other "want" is for the part to be fairly common so that other drivers could do the same Mod without working too hard or spending too much... Thanks, Terry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
graemevw 823 Posted December 8, 2019 I think i used an old drive cup and ground the cup section off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frog Jumper 3662 Posted December 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, graemevw said: Took a pic so you can see the bit of sprue i stuck to it to limit steering. [pix] Want any others? I never did get round to sorting the steering rods and ball height. What axle and front hex did you use? Same Traxxas? Or another??? Terry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
graemevw 823 Posted December 8, 2019 Just took it out to refresh my memory, yeah, i just ground the cup off a normal axle. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruebiracer 1046 Posted December 8, 2019 Tamiya 54183 could also work, These are hardened M-Chassis axles without drive cup. So for the non driven axle. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JennyMo 3526 Posted December 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, ruebiracer said: Tamiya 54183 could also work, These are hardened M-Chassis axles without drive cup. So for the non driven axle. I was going to say, that is what I used for converting a WR-02 chassis to four wheel hex hubs. Another, expensive option, is to buy the SLW-pattern bearing hubs from Locked-Up RC: http://www.lockeduprc.com/SLW-Hex-Hubs--Bearing-Adapter-Raw_p_864.html (these are what I used on my SRB front end to mount the Vanquish wheels) - but that will limit you to using wheels that use the 6-bolt SLW pattern of course... fortunately a good number of aftermarket wheels use that PCD these days, including Axial with their plastic wheel options. Jx 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frog Jumper 3662 Posted December 8, 2019 1 hour ago, ruebiracer said: Tamiya 54183 could also work, These are hardened M-Chassis axles without drive cup. So for the non driven axle. Would you be able to tell us the length of the #54183 axle??? Terry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JennyMo 3526 Posted December 8, 2019 Hi Terry - these are not the Tamiya ones, but I'm presuming a copy of: 25mm long from the bearing seat to the end of the thread, 12mm from the bearing seat to the pin. For anyone interested, I installed these in the uprights you get in the WR-02 chassis kit (the same as M chassis and TL-01 too presumably?) so that I could run Hex wheels on the front of the Wild Willy 2. Hope that helps... Jenny x 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruebiracer 1046 Posted December 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Frog Jumper said: Would you be able to tell us the length of the #54183 axle??? Terry Not at the moment, have my cars not around, but I think Jenny gave already the answer. The dimensions are the same as in every M-Chassis kit, just a more sturdy version. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frog Jumper 3662 Posted December 8, 2019 1 hour ago, JennyMo said: Hi Terry - these are not the Tamiya ones, but I'm presuming a copy of: 25mm long from the bearing seat to the end of the thread, 12mm from the bearing seat to the pin. Hope that helps... Jenny x Yes! Immensely! THanks! I think they might be too short for my needs - the Traxxas ones I'm using now are 34mm long and 15mm from seat to pin - but I will probably order a set just to try them out... Thanks again! Terry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
graemevw 823 Posted December 8, 2019 I may have missed it, but why do you need longer axles? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frog Jumper 3662 Posted December 8, 2019 1 hour ago, graemevw said: I may have missed it, but why do you need longer axles? I'm not sure I'll need it... My first thought is to be able to use BF rear wheels on the front, but then why not just use the standard BF front wheels and stay with the static axle??? Looking at my Bushy D (Super Blackfoot rear), the rear axles are the same length (I guess - I didn't take it apart to measure) as the M-Chassis ones above, and they work fine... Terry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frog Jumper 3662 Posted December 8, 2019 I'll add that I have little to no practical experience with modern 12mm Hex wheels... Eventually I'll get to beadlock wheels and I'll be asking a lot of questions... Terry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
graemevw 823 Posted December 8, 2019 Yeah, pretty sure normal length axles on the front will be fine. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badcrumble 4204 Posted December 11, 2019 Thank you for exploring this mod, it is something I had puzzled for a while but never got very far in actually doing anything. I was aiming to put some modern wheels on a Frog. I went as far as getting some F103 (I think) parts which didn't quite work though my principle was similar to yours - I was thinking of replacing the Brat / Frog hub. I have no idea how long the axles was though and it is currently buried in the garage.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frog Jumper 3662 Posted December 12, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 5:51 PM, graemevw said: Yeah, pretty sure normal length axles on the front will be fine. I ordered the M-Chassis axles... And I received the Traxxas Hubs. They fit perfectly onto the axles (of course). I did some test fittings with my HPI Super Star rears (12mm hex) and with a set of SBF rear wheels (12mm hex), but neither fit quite right. The axles is the issue - its made of Traxxas wheels, not Tamiya... I could probably get it to work with some serious shimming, but I don't want to deal with that every time I change out wheels... I'm thinking (hoping) the M-Chassis axle will solve these issues... 3 hours ago, Badcrumble said: Thank you for exploring this mod, it is something I had puzzled for a while but never got very far in actually doing anything. I was aiming to put some modern wheels on a Frog. If I get this to work, I'll probably replace the metal Hubs and Knuckles with BF parts w/ the Mod. It won't look at shiny, but I'm not sure what else to do... Terry 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frog Jumper 3662 Posted December 19, 2019 I received the M Chassis axle a couple of days ago. I've fitted them and have been testing them on the bench for the last day. Here are some pix... ---------- Here are all the pieces so far... https://imgur.com/xkRUJbB ---------- Here are the axles installed, with Tamiya 12mm hex adapters (Tamiya #53056). I had these in my spare parts bin from a long time ago... https://imgur.com/SEsxLsA ---------- Another angle... https://imgur.com/ci27s3Q ---------- Here is a typical HPI Super Star rear wheel (12mm hex) mounted onto the Mod... https://imgur.com/YxQb9gJ ---------- Here is another angle. The offset places the wheel and tire closer to the hub than the typical HPI Super Star front wheel. The tire did not rub, though it may under driving conditions... https://imgur.com/RdEDaxq ---------- Here is the Mod, mounted on the Bushy D. The Mod is on the starboard side of the car, or on the left side of the pix. The port side of the car has the Parma front axle carrier and a typical HPI Super Star front wheel. https://imgur.com/UaGGJgq As you can tell, the Mod side wheel is slightly closer to the hub than the non-Mod side (about 3mm - 4mm). https://imgur.com/nZE73r8 https://imgur.com/8dmqp4Z https://imgur.com/C7piT5v ---------- The next challenge will be to mount both sides with wheels and tires, and drive the eff out of it... Terry 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badcrumble 4204 Posted December 19, 2019 That looks great! I have nearly all the bits for this to try out some time. Now, the next challenge (should you choose to accept it) is to do it with the Frog / Brat front end... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frog Jumper 3662 Posted January 1, 2020 I installed the new Mods onto the Bushy D today. And mounted HPI #2135s to the front using the HPI adapters... Its a tight fit... I ended up ging back to the #9805825 ball ends and moving the connection to the Steering Servo to the bottom side of the Saver... This helped prevent rubbing on the tire - in this case Imex Claw Dawgs... I ran the Bushy D for about 5min. in the street and yard w/ an easy throttle. No problems... I then took it in the backyard and spent a good 10min. chasing the dog with it. Again, no problems... I consider this Mod a success. The wheel and tire you fit may prove to be an issue, but I've had no problems so far. Next, I think I will get a foursome of #10440024 wheels... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frog Jumper 3662 Posted February 2, 2020 As part of this Mod, I upgraded my steering turnbuckles, center steering plate, and ball connectors. I also posted a Vid of the bump-steer action on YouTube. All of that can be found in this thread: Thanks, Terry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
