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Bear77

Best quick charger

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Hi - I'm looking to get a Mad Bull for my son for Christmas and just wondered what would be the best fast charger? The place I'm buying from sells the Mistral lipo 5A charger. Anyone have any experience with this or suggestions for better versions (that don't cost the earth)?

Thanks

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In order to safely use and store LiPos, it is important to have a charger with a discharge function and the ability to put a battery into storage mode, wherein it is at a stable(ish) point between being full and empty. 

This is the one I use:

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/overlander-rc6-vsr-80watt-7a-output-ac-dc-lipo-balance-charger/rc-car-products/408440

 

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I don't believe it is unsafe to store them fully charged. Discharging a Lipo can be more hazardous, as there is risk of getting it wrong and over discharging one. Most chargers are fine these days.

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1 hour ago, TurnipJF said:

In order to safely use and store LiPos, it is important to have a charger with a discharge function and the ability to put a battery into storage mode, wherein it is at a stable(ish) point between being full and empty. 

This is the one I use:

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/overlander-rc6-vsr-80watt-7a-output-ac-dc-lipo-balance-charger/rc-car-products/408440

 

I have one of these too and i love it.

I too thought it was a bit more than i wanted to spend, but its a great charger.

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SkyRC make a whole range of good chargers which are affordable. If you look at other brands they are often identical to the SkyRC ones too. I think SkyRC are the OEM but could be wrong, they could be rebranding others. SkyRC have an identical one to that Overlander linked above. ISDT are another brand which are popular, they make very powerful chargers for not much money.

Look for genuine ones, there are fakes out there which are usually a little bit cheaper but they can be dodgy.

I have the SkyRC S60 which is cheap and cheerful. If I had more knowledge when I bought my first charger I would have spent more upfront, as now I use 2. But seriously consider a Dual or even quad charger if you have multiple cars and multiple people running them. It seems a lot now but will be worth it. I will no doubt end up with a quad in the next year or 2.

I only charge at 1C so chargers upto 6amps are fine for me as I only run 10th scale which use 2S batteries. Look for more powerful if you might go for 3S or 4S batteries or 8th scale cars.

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Ok Need a little help here. What does 1C mean and what is 2S and 3S etc. I’m only planning on charging one battery at a time which will be 2000mah or thereabouts for a mad bull

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2S is the number of Lipo cells. 1S would be 3.7v, 2S 7.4v etc. If you are planning on NiMh then it is normally called cell count, ie 6, 7 or 8. 

C is used to determine charge and discharge. Quite easy to work out. 2000mAh has a C value of 2amps. A 4500mAh battery would have a C rating of 4.5amp. 

As a rule you will want to charge at 1C (1 x whatever the C rating is). This will promote good battery health and a high number of duty cycles (number of times you can charge it). Some batteries will support charging of multiple C’s and will normally say so if they support it. 

A discharge rating may be 30C which would mean 30 x whatever the C rating is. This will help figure out the performance of the pack (capacity tells you how long it will last). Higher C ratings normally mean more punchy and more performance. 

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2 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

SkyRC make a whole range of good chargers which are affordable. If you look at other brands they are often identical to the SkyRC ones too. I think SkyRC are the OEM but could be wrong, they could be rebranding others. SkyRC have an identical one to that Overlander linked above. ISDT are another brand which are popular, they make very powerful chargers for not much money.

Look for genuine ones, there are fakes out there which are usually a little bit cheaper but they can be dodgy.

I have the SkyRC S60 which is cheap and cheerful. If I had more knowledge when I bought my first charger I would have spent more upfront, as now I use 2. But seriously consider a Dual or even quad charger if you have multiple cars and multiple people running them. It seems a lot now but will be worth it. I will no doubt end up with a quad in the next year or 2.

I only charge at 1C so chargers upto 6amps are fine for me as I only run 10th scale which use 2S batteries. Look for more powerful if you might go for 3S or 4S batteries or 8th scale cars.

Ok so I like the sky rc s60. And by default it should charge a 2000mah battery in 20 mins (@6A)? Although that’s probably not good for the life of the battery. Is it customisable to change the amperage of the charge (say charge at 1C so 2A)? Sorry for all the questions but I’m just trying to learn

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20 minutes ago, Bear77 said:

So for a 2000mah battery I want to charge at 2A. Seems easy enough

this is the style of battery I was thinking of using. Does it need a Nimh only charger or can I use a lipo one?

https://www.pegasusmodels.co.uk/product.asp?type=submenu&maingp=NiMh%2FPB+Batteries+(Lead+Acid)&prodid=1003166#.XfAL7i-nyhA

You could run a battery like that if you wanted. But if I’m honest I was running better batteries over 20 years ago. I’d say that £16 battery is £18 too expensive. 

And while a NiMh only charger would work. It is probably easier to just get one that can do more chemistries such as LiPo as it gives you more options. 

A battery like this:

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/nano-tech-4200mah-2s-25c-hardcase.html

has over double the capacity and will probably offer 2 1/2 to 3 times the run time. Plus it is physically lighter and will make the vehicle drive better and be more responsive. 

Other benefits are you don’t need to discharge it after use. Will hold its charge longer, ie if you charge it up. It’ll still be good to go a week later, whereas NiMh will go flat in a few days due to self discharge. LiPo will work better in extreme temps too and for me, more importantly LiPos are easy to charge. Plug them in and go. NiMh packs can be fickle and may false Peak (stop charging) a number of times and may need cycling (charge and run flat and recharge) if they have been left for a while. Really NiMh packs where a pain back in the day. I don’t run them at all these days. 

I’d also advise swapping out the horrendous Tamiya style connectors. No idea how they get away using them still. They have always been dreadful. I’d recommend XT60 connectors, easier to solder than Deans and easier the plug in and unplug. 

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6 minutes ago, Bear77 said:

Ok so I like the sky rc s60. And by default it should charge a 2000mah battery in 20 mins (@6A)? Although that’s probably not good for the life of the battery. Is it customisable to change the amperage of the charge (say charge at 1C so 2A)? Sorry for all the questions but I’m just trying to learn

Yep it will charge a 2000mah in 20minutes at 6amps.  I just charge at 1C and that always takes an hour (but it never does because its never fully flat, usually 45min max).  Also look at the watts of the charger, for a 7.2v/7.4v battery its fine because 60w / 7.2 is more than 6 (which is the max charge rate).  If you were charging a 14.4v battery then a 60w charger would have a max charge rate of 4.1amps.

That charger also has NiCD, Pb, NiMH, Lipo, Life programs so can charge any kind of battery.

6 minutes ago, Losi XXT-CR said:

You could run a battery like that if you wanted. But if I’m honest I was running better batteries over 20 years ago. I’d say that £16 battery is £18 too expensive. 

And while a NiMh only charger would work. It is probably easier to just get one that can do more chemistries such as LiPo as it gives you more options. 

A battery like this:

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/nano-tech-4200mah-2s-25c-hardcase.html

has over double the capacity and will probably offer 2 1/2 to 3 times the run time. Plus it is physically lighter and will make the vehicle drive better and be more responsive. 

Other benefits are you don’t need to discharge it after use. Will hold its charge longer, ie if you charge it up. It’ll still be good to go a week later, whereas NiMh will go flat in a few days due to self discharge. LiPo will work better in extreme temps too and for me, more importantly LiPos are easy to charge. Plug them in and go. NiMh packs can be fickle and may false Peak (stop charging) a number of times and may need cycling (charge and run flat and recharge) if they have been left for a while. Really NiMh packs where a pain back in the day. I don’t run them at all these days. 

I’d also advise swapping out the horrendous Tamiya style connectors. No idea how they get away using them still. They have always been dreadful. I’d recommend XT60 connectors, easier to solder than Deans and easier the plug in and unplug. 

This is where you need to make a call on what you want to do.  I run both lipo and NiMH and have a 6yo son with a variety of race cars as well as Tamiya's.  I prefer NiMH for the backyard running and for when his friends are around as they are slower than lipo and the kids don't need the extra speed.  NiMH can be used and abused and there is very little danger of anything going wrong or the battery being ruined.

You also need to monitor lipo charging (there is heaps about this so do a quick google) and can't leave them fully charged or discharged as it can ruin them.  So to run a lipo you need to charge it, then run, then storage charge it.  In our race cars a race usually means the battery is at storage voltage so I just check those and put them away.  I also will charge the night before and leave them fully charged overnight for racing the next day, but if I don't have the chance the night before then I'll get up early to do it or do it trackside. 

The Tamiya ESC's don't have a low voltage cut-off for lipo, so you need to monitor that as well.  You can buy a cheap low voltage alarm which plugs in, or just check every 5 minutes and get to know how long you can run for.  Our race cars have ESC where we set the low voltage cutoff so we don't have this problem running lipo in them.  You can ruin lipo's by discharging them too much, whereas NiMH will slow down and then not go.

With NiMH I leave them charged, sure they lose a bit, but they will still give a decent runtime, and then they can be left in the car and ignored (which is what 6yo's do).  They don't need the same maintenance as a lipo.  I also wouldn't want my 6yo looking after lipos.

The weight is another consideration.  I don't own a Mad Bull but I have heard that some models actually need the weight of a heavy battery to work properly, while others benefit from less weight.  No idea what effect it will have on a Mad Bull, but if it was designed for a NiMH then chances are the suspension works better with a heavier battery.  This is easy to fix though as its easy to add weights to make up for a lighter battery.

A 2000mah battery won't give a huge amount of runtime - probably 15mins in a standard car.  I think 3000mah are ideal for Tamiya's as they fit most models and still give a decent runtime of 20+minutes.  I have 3800mah NiMH and while they give 30min - 40min runtimes, they are a tight squeeze in the rereleases.  The size of the cells increases with the capacity of the battery which I didn't know 4 years ago.  Lipos are different, they are a standard size though so get whatever capacity you want if you go that route.

Lastly, while the S60 is great and works well, if you have 1 car now there is a good chance that you'll have another soon as 2 is more fun.  Or you'll get that 2000mah battery and want another so you can run for twice as long.  Consider the D100 as well, its basically like 2 S60s together and may work out better in the long run.  In hindsight I would've bought the D100 and not muck around with 2 chargers.  We had 2 cars (one each for my son and me) and now we have about 15.  It just happens and no one knows how.

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SkyRC S60 is a nice one, yes you can set it so it charges your battery at 1C.

If you want to use a NiMh check the vapextech 3300mAh it best value for money,(£/mAh) has decent power and its size fits the 'old' Tamiya battery shafts.

If you are any good soldering have a look at XT60 plugs big improvement in handling.

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9 hours ago, Bear77 said:

Thanks TurnipJF - bit pricey though

My advice, would be to get the best charger you can afford, it'll be cheaper in the long run. I started with the Imax b6, which did the job ok, but then splashed out on a LRP pulsar pro, and it's so much better, charges and discharge's quicker and more safety features etc.

 

10 hours ago, Losi XXT-CR said:

I don't believe it is unsafe to store them fully charged

It's unsafe to leave lipos charged for any length of time, the longest I leave mine charged is 12hrs (If I've to head out early to a race meeting, I'll charge one the night before) 

https://brushlesswhoop.com/storing-fully-charged-lipo-batteries/

4 hours ago, Bear77 said:

What does 1C mean

C = Capacity , so 1 X Capacity.

2000mah (Or 2ah) means it can supply 2 amps for an hour , 1amp for 30 mins etc.

4 hours ago, Bear77 said:

what is 2S and 3S 

S = serise , when you put batteries in , serise, you add the volts together, so 2s is 7.4v (2 X 3.7v), 3s = 11.1v etc 

(You may also see) -

P = Parellel , when you put batteries in parellel you add the Capacity,  but the voltage stays the same, so you sometimes see a 2s2p battery, so has 4 cells, e.g. a 2s2p 2000mah battery has 4 1000mah cells. 

4 hours ago, Bear77 said:

Does it need a Nimh only charger or can I use a lipo one?

That overlander one will charge pretty much any battery (so will the newer version of the B6 above).

 

(Although by the time it's taken me to write this, all your questions have been covered anyway, hope your clearer! 🙄)

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8 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

It's unsafe to leave lipos charged for any length of time, the longest I leave mine charged is 12hrs (If I've to head out early to a race meeting, I'll charge one the night before) 

https://brushlesswhoop.com/storing-fully-charged-lipo-batteries/

 

Thanks for the link :) but it doesn't support that they are dangerous to leave fully charged. Leaving them fully charged may reduce their life and performance, but that is not the same as them being dangerous because they have been left charged.

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2 hours ago, Losi XXT-CR said:

Thanks for the link :) but it doesn't support that they are dangerous to leave fully charged. Leaving them fully charged may reduce their life and performance, but that is not the same as them being dangerous because they have been left charged.

Stored energy always carries more risks, than low stored energy,

Storage charge is meant to be the lowest energy you can store, whilst still having enough to allow some energy loss over time.

Can't find anything that supports leaving them fully charged, and only the ,pretty much goto Lipo guide gives a time, a week.

https://rogershobbycenter.com/lipoguide/

". I have had many customers come to me with batteries that died because they charged it up, intending to use it, but life got in the way and they never remembered to put it back to storage voltage. Lithium-Polymer batteries can be damaged by sitting fully charged for as little as a week. This doesn't mean they will get damaged every time you leave them for over a week. It just means they can, and I've seen it happen. So don't forget to put your LiPos at storage voltage when you're done using them."

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4 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

Stored energy always carries more risks, than low stored energy,

Storage charge is meant to be the lowest energy you can store, whilst still having enough to allow some energy loss over time.

Can't find anything that supports leaving them fully charged, and only the ,pretty much goto Lipo guide gives a time, a week.

https://rogershobbycenter.com/lipoguide/

". I have had many customers come to me with batteries that died because they charged it up, intending to use it, but life got in the way and they never remembered to put it back to storage voltage. Lithium-Polymer batteries can be damaged by sitting fully charged for as little as a week. This doesn't mean they will get damaged every time you leave them for over a week. It just means they can, and I've seen it happen. So don't forget to put your LiPos at storage voltage when you're done using them."

I not disagreeing with this. Just the point about being "dangerous" or not ;)

But there times were you need to leave them charged up. Li-ion is not so different from LiPo and they too have a recommended storage voltage. But most uses such as laptops and torches/flashlights there would be little point discharging them all the time, as they wouldn't be fit for purpose if each time you needed it you couldn't use it because it wasn't charged.

This is also true with modern Electric Vehicles like Tesla's. It just isn't practical to park it up and discharge the battery because you won't be driving it for 2-3 days.

I don't know what the impact is on leaving charged vs not. I suspect it is very subjective and I'm not even sure claiming completely failed can be due to this either. At the end of the day a charged battery will self discharge over time and reach it's storage charge anyway.

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Thanks for all the advice - I decided to go for the Mistral as it was £20 cheaper than the Overlander and is rated at 50w & 5A - more than enough for what I need. However, I've been trying to charge my 6C 2000mAh battery and even after 2 hours at 5A it's still not at 7.2v. Yes it was only reading around 6.5v when I started charging it - but after two hours I would've expected it to have charged it from flat. Any ideas from the knowledgeable people here?

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OOps - ignore last - would help if I read the instructions on how to switch it to charge! It's Christmas - what can I say?

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