Vintage Tamiya value.

[Baddon 860]

Whats your thoughts on Vintage Tamiya as investments? Here for discussion is my opinion.

 

I reckon the Tamiya kits as an investment have a relatively short period of real value as the generations after us (those who grew up playing with Tamiya first 100) are getting older and as such the value of the vintage kits will start and fall away as those like me will grow older and pass away, my collection will NOT survive to any of my kids, they may keep one car to remind them of dad, but more than likely not- they will be sold off. As the nostalgia of the past to those of us of a certain age pass with us- so will the value of the kits.

So keeping them NIB for any future economic value has a marked shelf life. As such do what YOU want to maximize your nostalgia, as that's where the real value of these vintage kits come in. It does not mater what pleases you, NIB, Shelf Queen, Gentle runner, OR out and out basher.

Just enjoy them.

We all know (if we are honest) that hey are not as robust as modern offerings. I bash Traxxas Stampede with the family (two still do use Tamiya so please don't shoot me!!)

I have 2 display cases of the buggies that I wanted as a kid, its like the real life center pages of the guide books that I used to thumb through till they fell apart. I now have the means to get them in the plastic and metal, I enjoy tinkering with them, perfecting them if you will. I have them ALL ball raced BUT intend to run none of them (tried that and destroyed my just restored Thundershot when it took a major roll and needed to virtually start again.

They make me smile almost every day - That is their true value. I may get my money back if I sell them, I may not. They are a talking point, they occupy my time and my mind in the winter when I am stuck indoors. 

An investment in my mental health, YES.

An investment for economic gain, I fell not.

[junkmunki 846]

The trouble is, there are people on the internet who think they are made of solid gold and as such try and charge as much. There is a seller at the moment on ebay, asking £2500 for a NIB Sand Rover. Based on that, you could never buy to invest, because the value will never be that high in the first place.

Like you say, the value in any collection is the enjoyment and pleasure it gives the owner and the people that come to see it. My collection undoubtedly has a pretty high value, but then i have spent a lot of money building it, so if i sold it, would i make a big profit? Probably not. There will be certain models that i will make a decent profit on, but allowing for the ones that i wont, or that might be worth less than i paid, i would most likely get back pretty well what i paid for it all in the first place. I do it because i like the hunt for the ellusive part, and the joy of bringing something back to display standard from a pile of parts.

I dont have the burdon of children, so when i go it will all go to whoever gets here first...

J

[Baddon 860]

@junkmunki- love your location!

[Saito2 6686]

Value in itself is something I find very abstract. One person's junk is another person's treasure. Whats something worth? - Whatever someone will pay.

Personally I don't care how anybody enjoys their Tamiyas. Some get offended by shelf queens or bashers or NIB examples. Life's short. It doesn't matter in the end so enjoy them however you see fit. I think this might be some of what @Baddon is getting at. 

Admittedly (and this makes me a bit of a hypocrite after the previous statements), there are a couple of "enjoyment" methods I'm not keen on. I hate wanton destruction. I'm not talking about bashing or beating on a runner, but stupid things like lighting them on fire or just destruction for the sake of destruction (though this is true of everything for me, not just RC). The second is investment for the sake of investment. If you're buying up vintage RC and don't know the difference between a servo and a spur gear, just to make a money on the backs of real enthusiast, don't bother. Nothing wrong with making some money because the item rose in value (even if that was the plan all along, as long as you're an RC enthusiast to begin with). I just don't like"antique" dealers on the net trying to gouge folks like @junkmunki alluded to.  

Enjoyment is variable to each individual. I have several NIB kits. My Egress will remain that way because I enjoy the packaging and kit layout. The others will be saved to assemble for days when I'm older and this stuff isn't around as much. I personally wouldn't want a NIB Hilux. There's too much money wrapped up in it to just sit on the shelf and that value could plummet at anytime. If I assemble it, I'd feel like I might be destroying a bit of history too. I also get no joy from lording simple possessions over people. That's just me though.

I also don't run non re-re'd buggies much anymore. The fear of wreaking all that hard restoration work by an odd rollover (which can happen no matter how careful one is) or breaking some unobtainable part is not fun for me. They bring me more pleasure on a shelf.

2 hours ago, Baddon said:

They make me smile almost every day - That is their true value. I may get my money back if I sell them, I may not. They are a talking point, they occupy my time and my mind in the winter when I am stuck indoors. 

An investment in my mental health, YES.

An investment for economic gain, I fell not.

I couldn't have said it better myself .

[graemevw 823]

I have various hobbies, but ill mention 2 here. Tamiya and Vinyl collecting.

I spend a fair bit of money on both. The difference in the investment angle is interesting though.

I dont buy and restore tamiya for investment but at the same time, resale value is often on my mind. I tend to buy and restore vintage more than new. But i try and make sure a model can be bought and restored for less than its value. I do this as its a fair bit of money to tie up in stuff. I dont ever plan on selling any but as happened to my last collection, i know i can sell them if times get hard. I tend to try and make a little money trading bits if the opportunity arises to keep costs down. I dont collect for investment, but i try not to pump money into it that i wont see back apart from batteries, radio gear etc. I sometimes justify a car with 'ive always wanted one and if i ever need the money back, ill sell it'

My vinyl collection on the other hand also takes a fair bit of money. It has however gone up in value lots! Ive been collecting for 25 years so bought alot when no one wanted them. I dont even think about resale, i buy what i want and thats that. I will never sell them ever, unless im about to end up destitute on the street, and even then ill probably store them with family and ride the rough times out.

 

So, tamiya which i dont think is a great investment, i tend to treat a little bit like another way to store cash whereas vinyl, which would probably be a better investment, i treat as lost money!

Using any item as long term investment is always going to be risky. Old cars and bikes have spiked again but they will drop again too. Short term investment in 'things' is ok i guess, but long term, bigger risks.

Im sure we have all bought something because it was too cheap to pass up, kept it for a short while then sold it again.

[junkmunki 846]

3 hours ago, Baddon said:

@junkmunki- love your location!

Its the best place to live...

J

[SuperChamp82 743]

14 hours ago, Baddon said:

An investment in my mental health, YES.

An investment for economic gain, I fell not.

Best summary in a long time @Baddon

I run / rotate boxed-built 76 to 86 ... then got into similar vintage NIB - with every period hop up + r/c - to rebuild my childhood when I retire in a few years time 

And it’s better that than my will (or lawyers) telling my wife exactly what I’ve  spent (and accumulated) over the years ...

Sheds or attics gentlemen - we know our place 😂

That - plus golf, skiing and rugby - is the only way she’ll not accelerate my vow until death us do part ... 

PS Vinyl - don’t get me started @graemevw 

[Hudson 53]

In pure investment terms I reckon vintage Tamiya NIB is a decent bet, certainly based on the last few years.  Having said that - I doubt whether anyone starts buying vintage Tamiya NIB straight off the cuff with only financial gain in mind. For me, I went through a clear evolution of buying old Tamiya stuff, to buying old Tamiya stuff with original box, to buying NIB Tamiya.  Essentially, over a ten year period I worked out that the thing I liked the most about vintage Tamiya kits was the box, the box art/packaging/presentation/blisters etc.  So, for me, it was a natural progression to start buying NIB stuff.  My main criteria for buying is simply getting the kits that I like the most, and this is based almost entirely on creativity/artistic flair, i.e. not replicas of genuine cars but original concept buggies like Fox Falcon etc.  I honestly believe that collecting vintage NIB Tamiya kits is a sound investment, and I don't mind admitting that this is a motivating (secondary) factor for me.  The million dollar question is whether the market will die an instant death when all of us circa 1970 - 1980 kids start dying off.  In any case - we're twenty years away from that and maybe, just maybe,  the younger generations will pick up the baton?  For me, it'll be interesting to see which kits see the biggest price fluctuation over the next decade or so, I personally feel that the very early Tamiya RC kits now look very dated, although in pure collection terms of course they're still very desirable, and the original boxes remain very appealing,  the golden era stuff - Fox Hotshot etc in design terms still feels really fresh, though there's more of these kits floating around which affects value, the re releases impact on the value of original kits too - at least in the short term................

 

[bjmulford 14]

Really interesting thread guys and a subject very close to my heart!  For 'investment's' sake I would say far too volatile really. I think the ceiling value of some original cars are totally over -inflated and all it takes is for Tamiya to bring out a re-release (which in the next 20 years they could re-re all of the first 100 with ease!) and suddenly whatever you thought was a sure-bet investment of £5/£600 is now worth less than half that overnight! I recently spoke to a client about it and he reckoned to be careful about your investments and minimise the risk by spreading where the investment goes, and he advised that vintage Tamiya cars were 'The icing on the cake' not to be used as the 'meat and veg' if you see what i mean.  As an aside I am lucky enough to own a 1978 Ford Capri with a 3.5L V8 in it (pulls like a train & doesn't stop cause the brakes are crap!!! LoL!, - more like scream out loud!!!).  But I keep having the same discussion with people in the classic car world about relative values once the 1970s/80s generation get old. etc. But added to this is the compounded problem of the environmental impact of such a car/engine in a growing environmentally aware world.  Either way, both the Capri and spannering a Tamiya put a smile on my face and that is worth more to me than any amount of money sat in a bank or hedge fund etc, I'll just be mindful that i should not 'overdose' on that addiction!!! As Baddon says, they were built for the fun, the minute it isn't fun, its time to get another hobby or invest elsewhere if that's what you're into, surely?!!!

[svenb 3775]

14 minutes ago, bjmulford said:

 I am lucky enough to own a 1978 Ford Capri with a 3.5L V8 in it (pulls like a train & doesn't stop cause the brakes are crap!!! 

👍 Not to different to me, I have a 3.5 in a 83 capri although mine has good brakes😉

[SuperChamp82 743]

Def not a Ford man but agree re classic cars + shared values 

If you’re in here because you love / need a hobby, r/c should cost you way less than, say, a decent golf club in annual fees 

And poor r/c deals (or mistakes) are no diff than a bad 18 holes - where you don’t get your green fee back if you’re rubbish right ?

If you’re in here to turn a quick buck - good luck ... and many (not me) will be less than friendly because you drive up prices - whether bits or kits - for enthusiasts 

Personally, I see speculators as drivers of re re - which just offers new parts for my vintage runners ... and won’t impact my 70s / 80s NIB because I intend to build the lot when I retire ! 

Finally, if you’re in here because you know everyone has to have some mental ‘me’ time - whether that means going back to your childhood, having fun with your kids or planning your retirement - then that’s the best investment you can make in my book !

[bjmulford 14]

Defo with you on the last point there Superchamp!!! And just to prove my dedication to the cause (this could almost be a separate how far would you go to.... thread!!) I discovered that I had the bones of a countach/936 chassis kicking around in my spares pile, so i thought ok I'll test my engineering skills and make a chassis plate out of some 2mm Aly I had lying around, ok not too bad, about 2 hrs in the garage, Then I had that 'mental' moment but it needs a mechanism/radio tray. Of course these are rare as the proverbial rocking horse......to find being sold separately, sans car as it were.  I kicked myself for missing out from the chassis set that was on ebay a few weeks ago (Superchamp was that you and do you have any more left ?!!!). So I thought, ok how hard will it be to make one?!! Approximately 5/6 hrs later I emerged from the garage, it still needs a polish - but I did manage it, the one on the chassis is the scratch built one, the one on the cloth is the original.  Can somebody please confirm I am not as mental as I think I am!!!! thanks and happy new year all, B

[markbt73 5315]

I remember eons ago some economics teacher joking that "the way to tell an investment from a hobby is that one makes you money and the other costs you money." His point was that in most ventures there are a lot more hobbyists than investors.

Me, I don't want to be an investor in the things I love. I want to enjoy them. As such, once I spend money on something, be it an RC car, a static model kit, a part for my old MG, a guitar, a vinyl record, or whatever, it cases to have any monetary value to me. If I find something that I want, and I want it more than I want the money that it will cost, I buy it. If the money seems like it would be better spent elsewhere, I hold on to it and wait. (Or at least try to. I've learned some expensive lessons, figuring out what I actually want.)

I also don't generally buy things with a plan to sell them. Oh, I've sold plenty of models over the years, and have been able to just about break even, because of a couple of lucky scores that I sold for a profit. But I've also bought things that I regret buying (ahem, RC4WD) and had to sell at a loss. But I'm trying hard to eliminate the impulse buys, focus on searching out things I really want, and in doing so, cut the words "profit" and "loss" from my hobby dealings entirely. Not that I can afford to waste money, but I have found that if I'm careful, I can buy things I really want, and enjoy having them.

As for future plans for all my hobby stuff, it's simple: use it all up while I still can, but don't squander it. I don't want to leave anything un-built that I wanted to build, or leave any knobs on tires un-worn. But I also don't want to just burn through stuff and end up wanting. So it's a balancing act. Lucky (I suppose) for me, I don't have nearly as much time to devote to hobbies as I want, which makes it easier to leave things untouched...

[Hibernaculum 933]

A lot of good and interesting comments here.

My answer is: Yes, they are good investment. Not for huge profit. But what I can say is that the value of vintage Tamiya never goes away. If you buy vintage Tamiya kits, I wouldn't expect to profit from them. But what I think you can expect, is that the value will hold over the long term and it might creep upward a little too. So as far as the word "investment" goes - it may not be the best word in that I wouldn't consider it a money-making enterprise. And I don't think anyone should buy vintage Tamiyas purely for that reason.

You should only do it if you love the items themselves. And as a side effect of enjoying the hobby (and provided you look after your cars)... I think you can safely assume the value of them won't go down. It will hold. And it may go up a little here and there.

So why is that exactly? Well here's my theory...

Ever since the internet went mainstream (let's say, 2000 onwards), "Retro" has become huge business in every industry/category. We humans now have endless access to pictures and history and information and social media about collectibles and fashions and crazes and relics of the past. Prior to the internet, we never had access to that information, and we were not constantly being reminded of the past, nor did we have access to buying those items. Once a fad was over, it was gone. And the goods were gone. Now, all the fads of the past come back. Over and over and over. A worldwide market enables you to find many originals - plus there are all the remakes. And all those online platforms for buying and selling, means there are now collectors out there for absolutely everything you can imagine. And they have become far more fanatical than was previously possible.

(Example: I recently watched an Australian collectors tv show, called "Desert Collectors" https://7plus.com.au/desert-collectors It's a bit like American Pickers. In it, at one point a collector explained how the restorers of some vintage 1:1 cars now insist on restoring them state-specifically - that is, if a car was manufactured in a plant in a particular state in Australia (like Queensland), then they will only restore it with parts that also originate from that state.   You've got to admire them.)

Here we are in 2020. And I never thought I'd see the day when vinyl came back - yet it only grows in popularity. The same is happening with cassettes. And the time for CDs will come too. Almost every second pair of sneakers I see in sneakers stores, is a retro item harking back to the 00s, 90s, 80s, 70s...Did you guys know that sneaker collecting didn't even exist, prior to about 2004 or so?

I also like Casio watches. Every kid in my school playground had a cheap Casio watch when I was growing up. Now, many Casio watches are highly coveted collector's items and even the most scratched vintage examples will get bids on eBay. Brand new vintage examples can fetch thousands of dollars depending on the model. In general, any examples which are "Made in Japan" are more coveted than later ones (which are mostly made in China). Collecting Casio watches is an extremely expensive business ... and that's to say nothing of Seiko and other brands. But what's interesting to me is how Casio was the "cheap" brand that made a lot of really creative and fun watches - but how strong the nostalgia has since grown for that.

Our lives and society are also racing toward a higher-tech future, which makes a lot of people uneasy - and this only fuels the desire to look "back" to the comfort and simplicity of earlier objects and culture.

In summary

Retro is big business, has been big for at least 15 years, and shows no sign of slowing. I don't think it's going away. And vintage RC is one of many hobbies that will ride that wave no matter how long it continues.

And to answer @Hudson's question - "will the market die an instant death when all of us circa 1970 - 1980 kids start dying off"... I honestly don't think so. Vintage RC is going to transition from retro craze to antique value. And antiques are also massive business, and will continue to be.

The only thing that will ever upset the apple cart, is major worldwide financial chaos/depression/war etc.

[SuperChamp82 743]

Agree with @Hibernaculum

And would add that if you’re a successful 40 / 50 something who wants (and can afford) regular vintage kit you’ve probably worked out how to swerve (or at least mitigate) economic or political idiocy ...