Ask Tamiya for new rereleases

[kontemax]

Hi folk,

what do you think about ask Tamiya to rerelease some old spares or cars?

We are a lot of people trough the world. We could make a request all together to have spares impossible to find or cars beautifull to drive but difficoult to have. We can ask to Mr. Tamiya as a big number of customers or officially via this club.

We before should make a selection of parts or cars we would like again on the market.

What do you think Chris? Is it an idiot idea? For selection and vote you could move to do it officially on the club.

Max

[Wireless]

I think unless we guaranteed the purchase of a minimum of 10,000 units then Tamiya wouldn't even look at it, maybe even 50,000 units. It's just not worth their time tooling up for small runs.

[RedFrits]

quote:Originally posted by Wireless

I think unless we guaranteed the purchase of a minimum of 10,000 units then Tamiya wouldn't even look at it, maybe even 50,000 units. It's just not worth their time tooling up for small runs.

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I don't know what production runs are at Tamiya but if you are talking about 50.000... that's a lot in this case. But there is a good point in kontemax request. Maybe if we had a poll on tc what should be the next rerelease, we could sent the outcome of the pole to Tamiya?! Chris, could you place something like that on TC, and I do not mean like a topic in the forum??

[billg4]

quote:Originally posted by kontemax

Hi folk,

what do you think about ask Tamiya to rerelease some old spares or cars?

We are a lot of people trough the world. We could make a request all together to have spares impossible to find or cars beautifull to drive but difficoult to have. We can ask to Mr. Tamiya as a big number of customers or officially via this club.

We before should make a selection of parts or cars we would like again on the market.

What do you think Chris? Is it an idiot idea? For selection and vote you could move to do it officially on the club.

Max

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Well I remember requests and a online petition to rerelease 3 speeds and it hasn't worked. [] Can't hiurt, but don't count on it. [:I]

[Madmat]

Hate to say it but Billg4 is right, its a lost cause, there have been many threads of heated discussion over this topic, but all have come to the same conclusion that basically it aint goin' to happen, People say that if a model was re-released the would buy one the instant it came out, But do you honestly think every one that said that they would buy one would?, there is no financial certainty for tamiya, like the saying goes "Money talks, Bull**** walks" , Hate to rain on your parade but someone had to break the news. But there is some hope tamiya do take note of requests for future reference and hold me to this if tamiya start producing loads of olds discontinued parts i will eat my words

[billg4]

quote:Originally posted by madmat

i will eat my words

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I'll take those same words with bbq sauce []

Sorry

[DCM71]

I don't think it is Tamiya you would need to petition, your distributors are, and back orders so Tamiya see there are things waiting..... remember a lot of Tamiya Sales are from LOYAL Tamiya Fans, without them there are a lot less sales.

I think you should REALY negotiate with the Distributors on this one.

[Pellandine-sports]

Whilst I agree in principal with what has been said here I think it is a mistake to bomb out Kontemax's suggestion too quickly. Firstly, you never know until you try. Secondly, there are a lot of buyers out there and the TC register appears to run into thousands. Thirdly, it depends if Tamiya still has the original tooling....which it undoubtedly did for the Grasshopper and Lunchbox etc. If there's a significant demand and the tooling is available and there's money to be made Tamiya will consider it.

Sometimes manufacturers surprise us all, for example Parma are rereleasing their Chevy Nova lexan bodyshell.......minimum production run??..............TWENTY-FIVE!!!!........!!

However, if anybody out-there honestly believes that Tamiya are going to re-release the Sand Scorcher or any of the 3 speeds in their original form with all the alloy cast parts etc then you are going to be disappointed. Even if the tooling is still available these models will be prohibitively expensive by the time they hit the shops making the 50 000 of us worldwide who want one think twice before parting with our cash. Tamiya is wise to this fact and to petition them for these models truly is a waste of time and effort.

So if we were to have a poll of members and get the hobby stores and distributors on board, the chosen model needs to represent the middle ground to stand any chance of success. It also needs to be a model that gives Tamiya a degree of flexibility...the Monte Carlo mini is coming back out and it would surprise me if the classic VW Beetle didn't make a reappearance aswell.

I think Kontemax has a great idea...just don't aim too high

[stulec52]

ok then ; since they already brought back the Lancia Rally ( albeit on 03 platform) why not let us have the Opel Ascona and Audi Quattro please. I would't even mind them on an 04 chassis....

[theshopkeeper]

You've got to look at it from the flip side of the coin though - requests for re-release bodies come through to Tamiya's distributors and importers all the time, but sometimes they do a re-rel body on a car and it bombs (MX5 and Merc 190 spring to mind). BTW, I don't know about other countries, but the uK distributors delete back-orders once Tamiya tell them a part is NLA - so there's no "count" to refer to.

There is also a fine line to run here - if Tamiya re-released every car from their archive there wouldn't be *any* collectability on their products any more, and five years down the line what exactly would they be selling? You're not going to be writing here that you are desperate for a TL01 re-issue in 2010, after all.

Also, there is only so much demand for these older releases - example, Mad Bull - been around for years, continually available, very steady seller - other side of the coin - Hornet, came out in January - couldn't get enough, demand now right down - plenty of stock in now, but the Mad Bull steadily sells over the Hornet. So should Tamiya make another batch of Hornet or another batch of Mad Bull?

Same is true I'm afraid of the Lunchbox - massive advance interest, now slowed right down. Yes, people will buy for a long time to come, but it's a minority interest for the *new* people coming into RC and that's the market Tamiya must touch for long term survival.

These things are very much flash in the pans and although they undoubtedly make Tamiya a good amount of cash short-term, if they re-rel the lot they won't have the warehouse space and production capacity to keep a modern range alive.

[DJTheo]

Very correct shopkeeper! [^] Re-releases aren't really cash cows for Tamiya but more image carriers to create or keep a sentimental binding of the customers, so kits that were sold in large quantities and easy/cheap to produce are mainly re-released now, especially probably after learning from the XR-311 (expensive) and F1 re-releases (not so big sellers even in late 70s), but on the other side they re-release now the Group C cars and MX5... [8)] Maybe Japanese market is different though and those cars were/are very popular there as internal sales share is very significant for Tamiya.

Cheers

[netsmithUK]

I think anyone interested should email their resellers and distributors and even Tamiya themselves. Online petitions are not worth a bean though, sorry they are just a waste of time and no decent company would put any store by them at all. 99% of the time they are just flawed as they cannot be proved to be valid.

99% of web polls ran by big companies are on subjects they have already decided the answer on. The reason they let you 'vote' is just so you think they are a caring listening company. Its a simple Feel Good Factor thing.

For a petition to be valid you need to be able to show one person voted once. On the web its virtually impossible. Take TC as an example

If we only allow subscribers to vote and everyone of them voted (which is not likely) you are looking at a few hundred votes max if you are very lucky. Spread those few votes over the range of cars that would crop up and many would have less than 100 votes. No company is going to act on that.

If we limit it to members, the youve got 10000 max (polls normally have a take up rate of less than 10% so its more likely to be 1000) But even that is beside the point as we cannot prove these are different people, so the vote is invalid.

If we open it up to anyone, then its just a waste of time, as repeat voting is just soooo easy.

The only poll they would be interested in is a list of people and their credit card numbers putting firm pre-orders down.

Might be interesting to do with subscribers but it would really just show of the subscribers who can be botherred to vote, which models would they like releasing.

Sorry to put a downer on it. As an experiement start a thread if you like (Which model should Tamiya rerelease next) My guess is it will go quiet within a couple of pages.

[topforcein]

yeh buts thats not fair on some of us normal mambers.

i can afford your member ship fee and tbh dont see the point in it.

but i am at the moment am buying up many re-releases and would like a say in something like this but as i am not a subcribed member it could be classed as discrimination to us none subcribers.

sorry to rant on but thats my 10 pence worth.

[netsmithUK]

We can discuss the pro's and conns of the subscription fee in another thread - no problem. The beauty of it is those that want to pay, those that don't don't.

The only reason I mentioned limiting the vote to subscribers to illustrate what you must do to ensure only one person makes one vote (ie to make multiple votes you would need to subscribe multiple times, each costing money so they probably wouldn't) Members are completely unvalidated, so there is nothing to stop someone registering multiple times and thus swaying the vote their way.

All non subscribers are welcome to have their say on anything. I'd only limit voting to subscribers if I needed to be sure the vote was true (like in the photo competitions we do)

Chris

[anytimebaby]

Lets say tamiya has the tooling (which they seem to) and cheap labour (The philipinnes-cantspell) what could they lose?

If they did a 3 month production run on say the full parts list of the Quattro, releasing the ascona body as well they save money by not having to package it, not having to change the design in accordance to consumer law and effectvly releasing 2 cars for minimum money and effort. Where would the loss be? its money for nothing to them, the markets there why not use it and with the profit from the parts comes the finanace to develope new products. ok so there may only be 20.000 retro tamiya enthusiasts worldwide but each may have a disposable income of say £500 per year thats £10million that could be tamiyas ontop of there regular turnover

[theshopkeeper]

quote:Originally posted by anytimebaby

not having to change the design in accordance to consumer law

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Sorry, don't follow. If they re-rel a kit, it has to meet legal standards of today - just because it says re-rel doesn't mean they can just ignore what's safe - particularly in Europe.

[RedFrits]

quote:Originally posted by anytimebaby

Lets say tamiya has the tooling (which they seem to) and cheap labour (The philipinnes-cantspell) what could they lose?

If they did a 3 month production run on say the full parts list of the Quattro,

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That's 3 months less on other production. They only re-release if they have production available for it. With worldwide economics down at the moment a lot of kids who want a new gravelhound (or simulair) won't get it because dady can't affort it. This is the only reason they are re-releasing cause the 30+ collectors can and will pay for such a car instead of buying a new design. Tamiya knows that there are people (30+) who won't buy a new designed car but for 'sentimantal' reasons WILL buy the Frog or Grasshopper! So it's more efficient to produce those cars than having to shut down the production line. Who knows the year figures for Tamiya for 2004??

[Pellandine-sports]

.....In short it may be cheaper to re-release than to create something new.

Okay then what was the most significant recent new release from Tamiya....a new model that has moved the range onwards and upwards?

Which model is everybody going to be chasing in 10-15 years time? I don't know about you guys'n'gals but nothing really jumps out and bites me on the bum. Perhaps the TXT and/or TLT are worthy of note as a reasonable attempt but time will tell. Everything else just seems to be variations on a theme.

What's so great about the Lunchbox? Fun to run but the chassis really is lousy. The best bit is the bodyshell.......put that hard body on a road chassis and turn the hi-rider into a pimped out lo-rider and it would sell. The bodyshell sells itself.

The Super Clodbuster is floundering because its too much like its fore-father........Take the TXT chassis and graft on the Clod trannies couple this with a Bounty Hunter or Gravedigger M/T shell and voila...something different.

My point is that perhaps Tamiya has run out of fresh ideas or imagination. If so what are we going to get? Re-releases and/or more variations on the TL01?? Possibly, in which case some people may get their re-release wishes fulfilled........you're not gonna get your 3 speeders though!!![][]

[mr_pushrod]

I'd say the Super Fighter G, Desert Gator, TA-05 and developments of the 415 are proof that Tamiya have certainly not run out of ideas! The re-re's make sense in that a lot of them do appeal to the collector, someone who wants to relive their youth or someone who just fancies something to thrash about. Vehicles such as the M3, Lunchbox and Hornet have an appeal that does not come down to just one category which is why IMO it makes sense to reproduce them.

[kontemax]

Hi people,

First: I can say that the moulds cost milions and milions so I don't think Tamiya trashed them. Make a re-release is cheaper than create a new model. No studies or new projects needed. Tamiya recycling history demostrate this. How many parts are equal for different cars? How many money Mr. Tamiya saved with his old Falcon bathatub chassis used on Blitzer Beetle, Bear Hawk and so on? How many pieces sold without spend any money for the mould?

Second: a rerelease can be limited. I think Mr. Tamiya is not stupid and don't release more pieces than the market can buy. Little production at zero project costs could be a choice. Let Mr. Tamiya make his own economical estimates. Don't speak for him.

Third: the Tamiyaclub is more than a website with old people that wouldn't grew up like Peter Pan. Tamiyaclub is the bigger market tester Mr. Tamiya could have. And it's totally free for him. I know somebody in Shizuoka city is payed to read the forum and see our showrooms (Hi, how are you? Do you like my showroom?)

At the end: I like to dream. People that doesn't dream will obtain less things in life I believe. I like to dream cause is beautifull and is free. I like to think that Mr. Tamiya will listen us.

Max

[RedFrits]

quote:Originally posted by kontemax

At the end: I like to dream. People that doesn't dream will obtain less things in life I believe. I like to dream cause is beautifull and is free. I like to think that Mr. Tamiya will listen us.

Max

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Max, you touched me...[] No, kidding, you are absolutely right. For commercial reasons only, the Tamiya corp watches forums worldwide (if they are smart!!). I used to work for a trading company in hitech alloys. I always watched forums and newsgroups regarding large projects in the Netherlands and stuff like that. It gives oppertunities you never would think of, and it paid of sometimes.

The fact that TC is so big and there are a lot of 30+ people here must be a wake up call for Tamiya lat few years. The Internet IS the way for us vintage loving freaks to share our passion and spread the word []

[DJTheo]

quote:If they did a 3 month production run on say the full parts list of the Quattro, releasing the ascona body as well they save money by not having to package it, not having to change the design in accordance to consumer law and effectvly releasing 2 cars for minimum money and effort. Where would the loss be? its money for nothing to them, the markets there why not use it and with the profit from the parts comes the finanace to develope new products. ok so there may only be 20.000 retro tamiya enthusiasts worldwide but each may have a disposable income of say £500 per year thats £10million that could be tamiyas ontop of there regular turnover

id="quote">id="quote">

Making new molds might not be so expensive as they use CAD/CAM since the 80s but changing the complete production line and not producing a well selling modern car like RedFrits said, costs very much. Second I believe that a very high percentage of the "30s-relive-the-youth-generation" collectors has already discovered TC as they are techies (otherwise they wouldn't like RC cars), maybe even 50%. How many re-released cars are in TC showrooms? 89 Hornets, 23 GHs and 16LBs, that's far from 20000 even if only 10% percent of the total collectors are in TC and peanuts for Tamiya.

quote:First: I can say that the moulds cost milions and milions so I don't think Tamiya trashed them.

id="quote">id="quote">

As I have written several times, Tamiya has produced till now thousands of kits (RC, static, mini4wd etc) each having dozens of sprues. Do you think its possible to keep molds of everything, especially in Japan where space is the most expensive good? Also molds wear out and often are replaced during a run of a batch so I don't think it make sense to store them, especially since its not so expenive to mill them when they have the CAD files as they do since the 80s.

Still of course I also love to dream and Tamiya really seems to listen and be checking our demands, possibly also here as they are clever and seem to be constanty re-releasing stuff lately, only I don't think they will ever re-release SRBs or 3 speeds in their original form as production will be too expensive and the cars could be made much easier, cheaper and drivable with modern parts and designs (XC chassis, rig 3 speed, TLT axles etc)

Cheers

[Pellandine-sports]

quote:I'd say the Super Fighter G, Desert Gator, TA-05 and developments of the 415 are proof that Tamiya have certainly not run out of ideas!

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I'll bow to your superior knowledge on these models but where is the 'WOW' factor? I Worked in a model shop and remember when the Clod was first released...everybody was talking about it...every decent model shop had one built for display and kids stood and looked in awe on a Saturday afternoon....no guessing what was in their list to Santa Claus.

In my opinion the Desert Gator and Super fighter look to have moved on from previous models in a similar genre but are to the casual onlooker variations on an old theme. The TA05 and 415 look to be for the more specialised end of the hobby....will leave any comments on these to the serious boys'n'girls.

Are these very new models? If not I hope for Tamiya's sake that the numbers appearing in the TC members' showrooms are not representative of the sales volume....[?]

[SonicCJ5]

My Vote is for The Frog!

ED

[DJTheo]

quote:Originally posted by SonicCJ5

My Vote is for The Frog!

ED

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No need to vote for that anymore as its coming in December! [8D]

Cheers