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H22A4

My vintage Thunder Shot

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My last two runs haven’t resulted in any parts breaking.  Aside from tearing it down after sleeping for 28 years, upgrading to full bearings, installing a couple of Shapeways parts (after breaking orignal parts), an ESC and a nimh battery everything else is original.  When I opened the dampers last month the oil was clean so its running with vintage oil.

Future upgrades I’m thinking about are proper universal joints for the front, maybe for the rear too along with an upgraded motor and steel pinion.  

Its aged well since I built it back in 1990.

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A great save and really nicely done.

I like that is so original but has modern upgrades make it relatable and useable.

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The new steel pinion I ordered was delivered today.  I decided to split the difference between 13t and 15t and went with a 14t pinion.  I’ll be upgrading the 540 motor with something soon which is another reason I wanted to upgrade from the aluminum pinion it came with.  It looks like the original pinion has some wear on it....

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I decided to upgrade the silver can with a Super Stock BZ which arrived from Japan a lot quicker than I expected (considering shipping was free).  After installing it with the RR pinion, I took it out for a rip today and the thing almost flies now!  And depending  on the surface I was on, if I cornered too hard, it would roll over.  I can see burning through tries pretty quickly now.  I’m not sure if I should go with the 2.2” tires/wheels or the retro 2” Hotshot oval knob tires/wheels?  If I do go for the 2” wheels/tires, should I run Hotshot rear tires on the front as well or the skinny Hotshot front tires?

 

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With the terra scorcher rere coming back soon I'd run with original wheels and tyres, no rolling over then....not as grippy, some nice power slides....I've been running my thundershots with original tires and wheels since 2005, when bald and split and falling off I replace ( I stocked up!)

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4 hours ago, H22A4 said:

I decided to upgrade the silver can with a Super Stock BZ which arrived from Japan a lot quicker than I expected (considering shipping was free).  After installing it with the RR pinion, I took it out for a rip today and the thing almost flies now!  And depending  on the surface I was on, if I cornered too hard, it would roll over.  I can see burning through tries pretty quickly now.  I’m not sure if I should go with the 2.2” tires/wheels or the retro 2” Hotshot oval knob tires/wheels?  If I do go for the 2” wheels/tires, should I run Hotshot rear tires on the front as well or the skinny Hotshot front tires?

 

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Whilst i will bow to @taffer long history or running these, i personally found it hard to get a nice balance with the stock wheels. So long as you don't intend to run on hard surface, i would suggest looking at a modern sized set with narrower fronts. I run schumacher wide stagger rib front tyres (wide means wide front, they are narrower than rears and the kit wheels) and schumacher mini spike 2 rear. Both yellow compound, both with blue medium foams inside to keep their shape. That combo works across a lot of conditions, although at the moment with the longer, wetter winter grass conditions i have on my local fields i have mini spike fronts and full spike rears to keep the balance but give me more grip. 

Wide stagger rib - https://www.modelsport.co.uk/schumacher-wide-stagger-rib-1-10-yellow-pr-/rc-car-products/388874

Mini spike rear - https://www.modelsport.co.uk/schumacher-mini-spike-rears-yellow-2-2/rc-car-products/2300

Inserts

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/schumacher-rear-foam-tyre-insert-med-1pr-/rc-car-products/29248

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/schumacher-front-4wd-foam-tyre-insert-med-1pr-/rc-car-products/29249

If you want to keep it Tamiya the dark impact dish wheels are 2.2", black, and look good, but they are expensive compared to the more bland looking race disc wheels, which are mostly white.

Tamiya 0440210

Tamiya 0440209

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I did document on one of my runners that I tried running with dark impact wheels and tires and it was much more grippy on tarmac, rolled at speed and killed the personality of the car in my opinion. I think running thinner wheels also kills the look.

It's unfortunately the problem with running the stock setup (except the motor) for all these years....anything else doesn't feel the same!

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I’ve had several more runs without breaking anything.  I also pulled the trigger on a 5,000nmh battery so I’m not as limited on run times each day.  With the BZ motor I can’t help but notice how much more wear the tires have, especially the front ones.  The extra torque and speed of the BZ sure has the suspension squatting much more under load.  I’ll check if I’m running hard or soft oil in the shocks but would that really help reduce the squat or should I get stiffer springs? Or upgrade the 3 shocks?

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Don't reduce the squat! That helps level out the drive shafts when running and makes it look good!😁

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1 hour ago, taffer said:

Don't reduce the squat! That helps level out the drive shafts when running and makes it look good!😁

This! Just move fronts to rear to even iut wear. If the running surface permits the best thing you can do with the stock buggy to improve handling is to rebuild the shocks with 3mm spacers on the inside all round (you might need more in the front because of the mono shock) to lower the ride height a little. I don't know if there are spacers on the yellow cva part trees like the modern black ones, but a couple of o rings per shock would do it too. 

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19 hours ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

This! Just move fronts to rear to even iut wear. If the running surface permits the best thing you can do with the stock buggy to improve handling is to rebuild the shocks with 3mm spacers on the inside all round (you might need more in the front because of the mono shock) to lower the ride height a little. I don't know if there are spacers on the yellow cva part trees like the modern black ones, but a couple of o rings per shock would do it too. 

Thanks for the tip on the 3mm spacers.  I’ll do that.

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Had a few good rips around the neighbourhood today. I noticed it was a little noisy at some points but it wasn’t a constant noise so didn’t think much of it.  After washing it down and looking closer at things I noticed unusual wear (?) on the rear gear box joints, very noticeable on the right (motor) side.  I plugged in the battery and ran it noticing quite a clatter from the drive train.  It was coming from the rear end and when I compressed the rear suspension a little, the noise disappeared and it ran smothly. So it only makes the noise when the rear suspension is at the bottom of its travel.  Before I take apart the entire rear end, any advice on why it’s jamming which is causing the dog bones to chew away at the gear box joints?

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I've never had issues with full travel, the couple of times I've had issues similar to this is when either the drive shaft has a small kink, creating a wobble or a bearing has failed of the bearing holder has split creating a wobble

With these wobbles the outcome is either as you have described or it loosens the wheel nut so a wheel flies off! 

Does your esc have the pause / break between forward and reverse?

If it doesn't like a msc then that exaggerates wear around the gearbox joints.

I always put a bit of antiwear grease on drive shafts and make sure they are cleaned and more grease applied regularly to lessen wear

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@H22A4 I have this issue all the time on mine, across lots of variations of ride hright and suspension. I have no idea why the Thundershot series is so hard on its diff outdrives, but it is. Mine is due replacements and its really noisy. Doesn't affect running performance though.

The reason why it's worse at full extension on the suspension is that once you have wear, the dogbones pick up the gouge in the outdrive and at that maximum angle thry can no longer slide forward as thry rotate so the outdrive holds onto the dogbone and "picks up" the rear wheel. When you compress the sudpension the effect reduces as the dogbones get flatter so it smooths out. 

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Thanks and I think you’re right.  The extra torque of the BZ is causing additional stress on the outdrives.  Is there such a thing as hardened outdrives? And ThunderDragonCy your reason as to why totally makes sense!

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53218 are the hardened diff joints for gears.

Over 100hours running with superstocks and never had it that bad. I never run batteries consecutively to allow cool down and limit jumping, my gearbox joints are still great!

This I would expect on faster motors like 14t.

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My next purchase will be the hardened diff joints.  Thanks for the kit #.

Took it out for a spin tonight with a new set of shoes!

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Another few runs this weekend without issues.  Only breakage was shearing off one of the two clip pin holders for the body after it rolled a few times on the asphalt.  I ordered new shapeways pins a while ago and will install them now. The outdrives sure get chewed up with the higher torque BZ motor which the hardened ones will cure.  Took a few pictures on one of the runs with one showing the rear end squat under acceleration. 

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Had it out for another run when 33 year old metal decided it had enough.  I didn’t realise what exactly happened until a few minutes later but I instantly knew something happened as it ran like crap.  My 4wd car was suddenly a fwd car!

Went back the next day and found the dogbone but not the outdrive. I thought the outdrive broke (see pics further above) so I was surprised to see it was the dogbone that broke instead.  

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I’ve already got a df02 universal shaft (and hardened outdrives) on order which should arrive some time this week. I was going to replace the front dogbones since they had a slight wobble in them.  Of course it had to be a straight rear dog bone that broke so i’ll still be running with wobbly dog bones.  I guess I need to order another df02 shaft set now,

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Wow your not having much luck in regards to your low run time!?

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3 hours ago, taffer said:

Wow your not having much luck in regards to your low run time!?

Yeah, if something will break then it will with my TS.  And I was ripping around on short grass when the dogbone broke.

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The mailman delivered these the other day.  Less than 2 weeks to arrive from Japan (free shipping) which is pretty good considering the pandemic we’re all dealing with.  Took it out for a couple of runs (3kmah and 5kmah batteries) last night and nothing broke!

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I figure I should get another 53791 kit on order soon for the rear so the shafts are all new.

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Good to see another coming out of retirement. Its a great car to get running again.


Once you have replaced all the black plastic parts with new its a really tough car. The blue parts seem to be indestructible! 
 

I have rebuilt mine a few times over, last time I checked the only part you couldn’t get new was the front bumper & body. Hence mine having a different one.

If you get really carried away with the mods you’ll end up here ;) 

That’s son driving it at 61mph, he was 8 or 9 then! 

He started at 2 with my Hornet I rebuild it for him with a 360 motor to slow it down. 
There are loads of videos of it crashing at around 50mph it drove away from most of those crashes. If I’d have stuck that wing on sooner there would have been a lot less crashing! 
 

This is all with a 17T pinion & Boomerang wheels as I was going for max top speed

2s lipos with a 4300kv brushless motor sees about 30mph (probably too much for daily use!) 

3s lipo, 4300kv well into the 40mph zone, just about to 50mph
 

3s lipo 5200kv high 50mph zone

4s lipo 5200kv got that 61mph & a fried brand new 120A ESC! We stopped trying there as it was costing too much!

I’m looking to slow it down now for general bashing but won’t hijack your thread for that...

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