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UK group buy - TBG and MCI?

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2 hours ago, Ann3x said:

Some people I think just want to keep their models elite/exclusive and allow less people access to the vintage part of the hobby.

Sorry, but while I can accommodate your other points, I can’t agree with this one. :( 

That statement is inflammatory and suggests some sort of conspiracy. Please indicate who you are referring to. Me? Nothing could be further from my mind, than “allowing less people access to the vintage part of the hobby”.

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11 hours ago, Hibernaculum said:

Sorry, but while I can accommodate your other points, I can’t agree with this one. :( 

That statement is inflammatory and suggests some sort of conspiracy. Please indicate who you are referring to. Me? Nothing could be further from my mind, than “allowing less people access to the vintage part of the hobby”.

I am sorry but he is right. I know exactly the same happening with rare motocycle parts in a special sector. Why shouldnt it be the same with collecting stamps or whatever?

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51 minutes ago, Collin said:
12 hours ago, Hibernaculum said:

Sorry, but while I can accommodate your other points, I can’t agree with this one. :( 

That statement is inflammatory and suggests some sort of conspiracy. Please indicate who you are referring to. Me? Nothing could be further from my mind, than “allowing less people access to the vintage part of the hobby”.

I am sorry but he is right. I know exactly the same happening with rare motocycle parts in a special sector. Why shouldnt it be the same with collecting stamps or whatever?

He's absolutely right. I too, have witnessed this elitism in various hobbies and I find it repulsive. I can speak with a good bit of certainty however, that's not the case with @Hibernaculum . From my experience, Hib places a great deal of importance on originality down to every last detail. There may be differences in opinion over reproduction parts here. I, for one, am all for them if they aren't undercutting Tamiya in anyway.  If he's anything like me (and I believe, in this respect, he is) Hib has a great passion for the hobby and certainly enjoys sharing it with others rather than lording his collection over people. Just like the 1:1 car world, some folks demand original and see anything else as tainting the car while others are perfectly content to use more accessible reproduction parts. There's room for everyone in the hobby and neither view is right or wrong.

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20 hours ago, Hibernaculum said:

Sorry, but while I can accommodate your other points, I can’t agree with this one. :( 

That statement is inflammatory and suggests some sort of conspiracy. Please indicate who you are referring to. Me? Nothing could be further from my mind, than “allowing less people access to the vintage part of the hobby”.

Greatest of respect for you and what you do for the hobby. No personal slight intended and a conspiracy about RC cars...? Really?

I simply disagree with you on whether open discussion of repro companies should be banned from this forum. Your view seems to be that it should. I disagree as imo these companies keep more buggies on the road and with vintage ethos than would otherwise be the case and are hence a valuable resource in Tamiya's neglect.

If you want to keep things pure - fine. No need to impose that desire on everyone else by limiting discussion.

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13 minutes ago, Ann3x said:

Greatest of respect for you and what you do for the hobby. No personal slight intended and a conspiracy about RC cars...? Really?

I simply disagree with you on whether open discussion of repro companies should be banned from this forum. Your view seems to be that it should. I disagree as imo these companies keep more buggies on the road and with vintage ethos than would otherwise be the case and are hence a valuable resource in Tamiya's neglect.

If you want to keep things pure - fine. No need to impose that desire on everyone else by limiting discussion.

Thanks for the kind words. (Thanks to @Saito2 also)

My goal in responding to this thread wasn't to derail it. But it was to remind everyone who openly supports repro products, how some of these products are damaging to Tamiya. And how Tamiya deserves respect for being a very old, traditional, family company. One of the last surviving in the hobby industry. I cannot think of another company which comes close on this respect, except for Schumacher.

I think it's clear from the responses that there is a "spectrum" of views on repro. Many people say some repro products are OK. Those same people often admit that the chinese Bruiser clone is outright commercial plagiarism. The logical conclusion of this is: we cannot lump all "repro" into one basket and talk about either banning it or supporting it wholesale.

So if some repro products are undeniably illegal commercial plagiarism that nobody on this forum can defend without their pants catching on fire - then yes @Ann3x it is my view that when this forum hypes and discusses and shares purchasing links about such illegal products on Tamiyaclub, that amounts to promotion. Promotion of a product which directly damages the company this forum exists to support and which everybody fawns over. 

Therefore, I wish Tamiyaclub would adjust it's site guidelines so that, yes - the forum was kept more "pure" - whereby "purity" means nothing more than the banning of products considered direct corporate theft against Tamiya. I don't think that's too much to ask.

And Re: "limiting discussion"...

Your discussion and speech is and has always been limited in various ways on Tamiyaclub, according to site policy.

  • Swearing is not allowed - not even the softest and most garden of varieties.
  • All CAPS posts are not allowed.
  • Criticism of eBay listings is not allowed.
  • Links to live auctions were not allowed or many years (though they are now).
  • Avatars must be RC related.
  • etc

All fine. But some of these rules seem rather trivial, when put beside open support and discussion in favour of corporate theft and plagiarism.

 

There is of course, an entry thus...

18. Due to recent legal issues, no manufacturer is permitted to advertise reproduction parts on any part of Tamiyaclub. Adverts for reproductions of (but not limited to) decals, bodyshells, driver figures, tyres are all banned. This is for products from all related manufacturers, not just Tamiya
Links to sites distributing repro goods will also be removed and any 'homemade' products bearing branding or art will also be deleted.

Wanted ads or posts for repro goods will also be deleted.

 

Being by far the biggest vintage Tamiya discussion forum on the web, I often have no place else to go for a bit of fun chatting about vintage Tamiya - except Tamiyaclub.com. Hence why I cared enough to write the posts in this thread, after a 6 month hiatus (which itself was due in part to disillusion over all the enthusiastic threads about the Chinese Bruiser clone).

And while I don't buy any repro personally, I'd be happy with some sort of compromise forum policy that straddles a line between "fair use" repro, and outright illegal repro. But I can't and will never support the current free-for-all, open season on the promotion of all repro products that the Tamiyaclub forums are currently engaged in. 🤷‍♂️

Anyway, I've more than said my piece as usual. Probably better for you lot, if I row back to my island and leave you guys to it :D 👍  You know where I am. 

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17 minutes ago, Hibernaculum said:

 

18. Due to recent legal issues, no manufacturer is permitted to advertise reproduction parts on any part of Tamiyaclub. Adverts for reproductions of (but not limited to) decals, bodyshells, driver figures, tyres are all banned. This is for products from all related manufacturers, not just Tamiya
Links to sites distributing repro goods will also be removed and any 'homemade' products bearing branding or art will also be deleted.

Wanted ads or posts for repro goods will also be deleted.

 

 

Looks like @TurnipJF will have to have his arm removed:lol:

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I fully appreciated everybodies point of view here and I would like to underline how happy I am To see that we can have this discussion without anyone swearing or shouting or all the usual nonsense I see in most forums nowadays. So to me reading this thread is a victory in itself. Everyone has expressed and développed their point of view  and I find the debate very interesting. So bravo chaps !

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1 hour ago, Hibernaculum said:

I think it's clear from the responses that there is a "spectrum" of views on repro. Many people say some repro products are OK. Those same people often admit that the chinese Bruiser clone is outright commercial plagiarism. The logical conclusion of this is: we cannot lump all "repro" into one basket and talk about either banning it or supporting it wholesale.

So if some repro products are undeniably illegal commercial plagiarism that nobody on this forum can defend without their pants catching on fire - then yes @Ann3x it is my view that when this forum hypes and discusses and shares purchasing links about such illegal products on Tamiyaclub, that amounts to promotion. Promotion of a product which directly damages the company this forum exists to support and which everybody fawns over. 

Therefore, I wish Tamiyaclub would adjust it's site guidelines so that, yes - the forum was kept more "pure" - whereby "purity" means nothing more than the banning of products considered direct corporate theft against Tamiya. I don't think that's too much to ask.

....

Anyway, I've more than said my piece as usual. Probably better for you lot, if I row back to my island and leave you guys to it :D 👍  You know where I am. 

Im glad you continue to frequent & contribute here, some of your purism is wonderful (with valuable results like your blog that go far beyond what ill ever contribute with my pragmatism!) & its good to know people care so much - at very least it puts my own dedication in context! Also as Leslie says, great that we can have a disagreement without the normal internetz trolling / name calling. Thanks!

Final thing Ill say as we have clearly discussed to death and should probably just agree to disagree is that essentially our disagreement is around what constitutes promotion - For me,  dedicated threads with links to purchase eg "sale on at MCI" are promotion. Discussion of products (even the evil Bruiser clone), isnt promotion its healthy discussion and should be allowed.

This thread, I dont see as promotion, it's not directly suggesting people buy MCI or TBG items its just that people who *already do* can club together to save the wastage (in terms of money, packaging, CO2 etc etc) of all ordering transatlantic items separately! I get why you might see it as promotion - but I dont think its intended as such nor do I think in this case it does any harm. The guy is trying to do a nice thing for this community....

Anyway like I said, agree to disagree :)

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While the debate raged on this topic, three of us quietly got in touch with each other and placed an order with both TBG and also with MCI and had all posted to one of us, it was then repacked and sent on to the two others.

So savings:-

Group larger order allowed us to negotiate a decent price reduction. Also two of our orders were not of high enough value to have attracted the free post from MCI so again group buying saved here.

1/3 of all group post (customs fee was incurred but split according to value) With value of posting each of the three orders and the handling fee applied to custom charge I reckon we all saved a reasonable amount. The local leg was £11 split 3 ways so no big shake there.

So for those who may do this again in the future it may be worth ignoring the bulk of what ended up posted in this thread for the cost savings.

I now have 3 bodes in need of trimming, 4 in need of paint and decals. So my (assuming its coming) enforced quarantine will at least give me a chance to complete the bodies of my remaining Tamiya's which will fill all the slots in my display cases. 

One of the bodies is for an Astute that I would NEVER have paid going rates for a vintage body/wing/undertray. The car was expensive enough without them but was in little to barely used condition and included original tires still not fitted to original rims.

One for a Vanquish to return it to box art- mine is currently blue

One for a Saint Dragon - again never would pay the going rate for a vintage as mine is a madcap converted by buying red pogo's and a fellow forum member supplied 3D printed rear body mount.

Lastly was for a Manta Ray (sorry but REALLY don't like the look of these) that I will re-body as a Dirt Thrasher.

My display had already 7 new TBG bodies (Boomerang, Winger, Super Sabre, Thundershot, ThunderDragon, Fire Dragon, & Terra Scorcher) in it already so as you see I have NO issue with non Tamiya parts.

TBG & MCI has enabled me to return what in most cases were tired, different or battered bodies to catalogue (well with my limited talents as near as I can) condition. 3 of my others are re-re, only 2 are vintage and thats due to the fact they arrived to me in really good condition - Both sourced on this forum from fellow TC members (Hotshot 2 and Madcap)

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