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GTodd

Terra Scorcher 2020!!

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8 hours ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

@SuttieB Have a look at the TT02B manual. Those springs will fit. I found my Thunder Dragon handled better with stiffer front springs than kit. I have the DF03 spring set 53927 which has some good options which suit this buggy. 

Thanks. I’ll try and get the DF03 set when available..

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On 9/7/2020 at 2:55 AM, GTodd said:

These are gorgeous!!!! I need another body and paint it box art!!!!

Cheers. It’s a fairly straightforward build. Had a few choice words when trying to fit the big stickers that fold round three sides tho 😅

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On 9/8/2020 at 2:26 PM, MrBlz said:

PS4 Blue on the Terra but the Manta was 30 years ago so I don't remember. However, I did not follow the box on the Manta that much I do remember.  Also, since I am here, two questions.  Does anyone have any experience with Liquid Masking Tape?  On my Terra I did use a small amount of thread sealer on the wheels but after 20 minutes of some high speed running they get loose anyway. 

You want to use Loctite blue on your threads not Liquid Masking tape.  I must say I have never had a wheel nut come loose. I thought the kits came with nylon nuts as standard.

 

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On 9/8/2020 at 2:26 PM, MrBlz said:

PS4 Blue on the Terra but the Manta was 30 years ago so I don't remember. However, I did not follow the box on the Manta that much I do remember.  Also, since I am here, two questions.  Does anyone have any experience with Liquid Masking Tape?  On my Terra I did use a small amount of thread sealer on the wheels but after 20 minutes of some high speed running they get loose anyway. 

 

 

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Actually I had combined to questions. I wanted to know if anyone had used liquid masking tape rather than traditional paper type tapes. 

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Having owned a terra scorcher first time round back in 1988 , the appearance of a 2020 rere made me buy one to indulge in some nostalgia.I would have been 13 or 14 when I built the original and now at 45 years old I have built the chassis and will do the shell at some point.A few things had me scratching my head regarding this rere.Firstly was my dismay at discovering my kit has badly molded bevel gears, I beleive this was an issue with the fire dragon rere too?.

Where the sprue meets gear , on all 3 bevel gears , there are lumps at the base of a few teeth either side of the sprue junction.I tried to tidy them up to the best of my ability with a scalpel , but they run abit noisily now its assembled.

The reason I discovered the gear problem was when I tried to assemble the gearboxes in "1988" form.by this I mean I used proper thrust races and ball bearings , instead of the 2020 version using the plastic bush and steel washer.As far as I can tell looking at older manuals , this bush and washer method is for all the thundershot family except the terra scorcher.

Regardless of the combination of thrust race and bearing or bushing and washer ,each method caused the bevel gears to either bind due to tight mesh or run very tightly.only the 2020 bush and washer allowed the bevels to mesh and run smoothly ( as smoothly as mishaped gears will run ) .I must have had the rear gearbox built apart 6 times , slowly discovering that the 1988 method just simply would not work.I am at a loss as to why ? I've assembled it as per the 2020 manual and given up on the 1988 set up.perhaps as wear occurs the gears will settle in.

I also wondered why the spur gear is fitted with an 1150 ball bearing when it rotates with the shaft it sits on.the 1988 used the plastic bush and I found it too thin and would allow the spur to brush against the inside of the gear case and leave a noticeable " ring " .thumbs up for sorting this issue, just abit weird its done with a ball bearing when the classic plastic 1150 would do.

After all the bevel gear antics I decided to check the new alloy motor mount.The 1988 version was a stamped plate and pinion spacing was acheived using a little plastic jig.

Now that the new mount requires 14.5mm measurement instead.So I fitted the motor whilst the gearbox was in half and checked it with the spur. due to the spur sitting on one side only of the gearbox supported by one bearing at this point it was abit of a balancing act but it was clear the pinion would run on about half of the spur gear surface.I checked the kit supplied 15t butter soft pinion and its the same length as the 17t.

I set the pinion so it would cover the spur surface and ended up with about 15.5mm distance.it now seems to reach the spur better and wont touch the inside face of the 2nd half of the gearbox when closed.

Considering the mesh and the surface of the spur and pinion are completely out of sight once the gearbox is assembled , it seems odd that the new alloy mount brings an uncertainty about how the pinion sits on the spur , compared to the original mount.

On a happier note , assembly ujs front and back are a neat addition from the original :D

 

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9 hours ago, finder75 said:

Firstly was my dismay at discovering my kit has badly molded bevel gears, I beleive this was an issue with the fire dragon rere too?.

Where the sprue meets gear , on all 3 bevel gears , there are lumps at the base of a few teeth either side of the sprue junction.I tried to tidy them up to the best of my ability with a scalpel , but they run abit noisily now its assembled.

I feel your pain. I had the same issue with my then-new Fire Dragon re-release back in the day. The buggy made an awful clicking sound like a wind-up toy. It took me awhile to find those lumps in the gears as the white ceramic grease obscured them. It also took a lot of trail-and-error and trimming the roots of those bevel gear teeth to get them to quiet down. I bought replacement gears but they had the same issue. It was my first badly made Tamiya part up to that point.

9 hours ago, finder75 said:

Considering the mesh and the surface of the spur and pinion are completely out of sight once the gearbox is assembled , it seems odd that the new alloy mount brings an uncertainty about how the pinion sits on the spur , compared to the original mount.

I felt the same way about my Terra Scorcher motor mount. The mount is a nice looking piece and all, but there was no issue with the original stamped mount. The Thundershot and Fire Dragon re-releases both still retained the stamped mount so I'm unsure why Tamiya made the change.

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13 hours ago, finder75 said:

Having owned a terra scorcher first time round back in 1988 , the appearance of a 2020 rere made me buy one to indulge in some nostalgia.I would have been 13 or 14 when I built the original and now at 45 years old I have built the chassis and will do the shell at some point.A few things had me scratching my head regarding this rere.Firstly was my dismay at discovering my kit has badly molded bevel gears, I beleive this was an issue with the fire dragon rere too?.

Where the sprue meets gear , on all 3 bevel gears , there are lumps at the base of a few teeth either side of the sprue junction.I tried to tidy them up to the best of my ability with a scalpel , but they run abit noisily now its assembled.

The reason I discovered the gear problem was when I tried to assemble the gearboxes in "1988" form.by this I mean I used proper thrust races and ball bearings , instead of the 2020 version using the plastic bush and steel washer.As far as I can tell looking at older manuals , this bush and washer method is for all the thundershot family except the terra scorcher.

Regardless of the combination of thrust race and bearing or bushing and washer ,each method caused the bevel gears to either bind due to tight mesh or run very tightly.only the 2020 bush and washer allowed the bevels to mesh and run smoothly ( as smoothly as mishaped gears will run ) .I must have had the rear gearbox built apart 6 times , slowly discovering that the 1988 method just simply would not work.I am at a loss as to why ? I've assembled it as per the 2020 manual and given up on the 1988 set up.perhaps as wear occurs the gears will settle in.

I also wondered why the spur gear is fitted with an 1150 ball bearing when it rotates with the shaft it sits on.the 1988 used the plastic bush and I found it too thin and would allow the spur to brush against the inside of the gear case and leave a noticeable " ring " .thumbs up for sorting this issue, just abit weird its done with a ball bearing when the classic plastic 1150 would do.

After all the bevel gear antics I decided to check the new alloy motor mount.The 1988 version was a stamped plate and pinion spacing was acheived using a little plastic jig.

Now that the new mount requires 14.5mm measurement instead.So I fitted the motor whilst the gearbox was in half and checked it with the spur. due to the spur sitting on one side only of the gearbox supported by one bearing at this point it was abit of a balancing act but it was clear the pinion would run on about half of the spur gear surface.I checked the kit supplied 15t butter soft pinion and its the same length as the 17t.

I set the pinion so it would cover the spur surface and ended up with about 15.5mm distance.it now seems to reach the spur better and wont touch the inside face of the 2nd half of the gearbox when closed.

Considering the mesh and the surface of the spur and pinion are completely out of sight once the gearbox is assembled , it seems odd that the new alloy mount brings an uncertainty about how the pinion sits on the spur , compared to the original mount.

On a happier note , assembly ujs front and back are a neat addition from the original :D

 

I had the same problem with the bevel gears, I just filled the lumps down and all is OK.  What thrust race did you use? I used an original Tamiya 80's parts and it worked fine. 

I threw the motor plate in the bin and used the original stamped plate from my 88 model. I also changed the pinion to a steel 17T...

Loved my build, brought back happy memories of putting my original together with my dad when I was 14, happy days!

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Thanks for the shared experiences regarding this build.

for Ramdrive, I used a thrust race with the kit supplied dark metal washers, it made the thickness exactly the same as a 1150 ball bearing.My thinking was that if both bevel gears are the same spacing then it should be fine, but it resulted in the gears binding completely once assembled.This could be due to the bevel gears possibly, but I noticed that the plastic bush and washer was thinner than a 1150 bearing.Perhaps the thinner bush and washer on each gear provides the correct mesh distance for the mishaped gears? idk?

I do remember the prop connector shafts being a dark metal in the original ,instead of the bright metal of the re-re? it seems unlikely the new shafts were made to a different E clip spacing though.The new bright version certainly holds the wire prop shaft alot better than the original.

I  will possibly make a vid of the chassis running on a single D cell battery to show the "starter motor" type sound it makes when running.:D

 Here are two pics that show the thrust race and bushing and washer ,compared to a 1150 bearing, the bushing is ever so slightly thinner.

 

thrust thickness.jpg

bushing thickness.jpg

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I've used old gearsets with no issues where as my 2008 fire dragon was ok, my new 2020 terra is the noisest the chassis range has ever been and very stiff/notchy, fourth battery through it now and it's starting to quiet down and bed in.

I've used 1150 ball bearings in place  of thrust or plastic/metal washer setups since 2009, never been an issue, current tshot runner has 100+ hours through it.

 

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9 hours ago, finder75 said:

Thanks for the shared experiences regarding this build.

for Ramdrive, I used a thrust race with the kit supplied dark metal washers, it made the thickness exactly the same as a 1150 ball bearing.My thinking was that if both bevel gears are the same spacing then it should be fine, but it resulted in the gears binding completely once assembled.This could be due to the bevel gears possibly, but I noticed that the plastic bush and washer was thinner than a 1150 bearing.Perhaps the thinner bush and washer on each gear provides the correct mesh distance for the mishaped gears? idk?

I do remember the prop connector shafts being a dark metal in the original ,instead of the bright metal of the re-re? it seems unlikely the new shafts were made to a different E clip spacing though.The new bright version certainly holds the wire prop shaft alot better than the original.

I  will possibly make a vid of the chassis running on a single D cell battery to show the "starter motor" type sound it makes when running.:D

 Here are two pics that show the thrust race and bushing and washer ,compared to a 1150 bearing, the bushing is ever so slightly thinner.

 

thrust thickness.jpg

bushing thickness.jpg

Yep the info on using the 1150 bearing in place of the "proper" race on this thread is a nonsense and does not work.

Actually the thrust race in your pic looks wrong, to thick...

I will get my calipers out and post the exact height of the original part for other builders reference.

My Terra drive train is very quite, I will take some video...

 

 

 

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Tamiya USA says discontinued already!!! What the heck!

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On 9/14/2020 at 1:24 AM, ramdriveUK said:

Yep the info on using the 1150 bearing in place of the "proper" race on this thread is a nonsense and does not work.

On the contrary @ramdriveUK

A 1150 ball bearing works very well, I have used a ball bearing in multiple thundershot builds in place of a thrust bearing.

My current thundershot runner has over 100 running hours with no issues whatsoever (I've never gone lower than a 14t motor however)

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4 hours ago, GTodd said:

Tamiya USA says discontinued already!!! What the heck!

Maybe just a supply issue?

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3 hours ago, taffer said:

Maybe just a supply issue?

Hopefully so.  They had the Novafox marked as discontinued too and it is back.  Not sure their rhyme or reason on marking stuff discontinued but it's certainly frustrating at times.

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13 hours ago, taffer said:

On the contrary @ramdriveUK

A 1150 ball bearing works very well, I have used a ball bearing in multiple thundershot builds in place of a thrust bearing.

My current thundershot runner has over 100 running hours with no issues whatsoever (I've never gone lower than a 14t motor however)

Correct, I too stuck a 1150 bearing in my thundershort 20 years ago when I couldn't find the correct thrust bearing set to hand, it is still running that same bearing today. It is identical width to the original white plastic thrust bearing + washer that was provided in the kit. My thundershot (now Terra Scorcher spec) has well over 200 hours on it (30 hrs this year alone) AND most of that has been with an 8.4v battery and Dyna Run super touring motor or a Reedy 19t quad spec. Sure, the 1150 is not providing any thrust protection and is merely acting as a spacer/shaft support but it goes to show that there is little actual 'thrust' involved in that particular situation even under extreme use. 

I am not aware of any changes to the dimensions in the gearbox over the years so I don't understand why people thought it didn't fit? I've been runnung T'shots for 30 years and currently have a fleet of four in constant use, gearboxes are rugged and reliable, don;t ever recall having any issues with them other than real heavy abuse with a 9.6v battery and a 13t motor...... ;-)

I am about to strip and rebuild that particular thundershot once I've finished my Avante and Vanquish builds and I will probably put the proper thrust bearing in place this time simply because I'm buying a pack of new bearings anyway.

 

EDIT: Whether you agree with the bodge or not, I think we can all agree that the Vernier quite clearly proves the 1150 is identical width to the original thrust/washer, to suggest otherwise would be nonsense ;-)

EDIT2: While I don't like bodges that much myself, I am quite happy to do a bodge if it means I get to actually use the buggy and play with my daughters rather than it sitting on a shelf waiting for parts.

 

thundershot_thrust (1).jpg

thundershot_thrust (2).jpg

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Just make sure you are buying the 5x11x4mm and not the 5x11x5mm bearings.  Sizing is ID x OD x Thickness.  You want 4mm not 5mm thick.  Yes, eBay has plenty of 5mm thick bearings for sale so it's easy to make a mistake if you are not paying attention.

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7 hours ago, Champ85 said:

Just make sure you are buying the 5x11x4mm and not the 5x11x5mm bearings.  Sizing is ID x OD x Thickness.  You want 4mm not 5mm thick.  Yes, eBay has plenty of 5mm thick bearings for sale so it's easy to make a mistake if you are not paying attention.

I will say that the bodge of using the 1150 bearing probably wouldn't work these days anyway regardless of whether they fit. The quality of modern bearings is dreadful. I have actually stripped down a buggy recently, fitted with 20+ year old Tamiya bearings (sealed both sides) and the bearings ran smoothly and felt like new. In comparison the brand new set of genuine Tamiya bearings felt worse. Some of the cheaper bearings I've bought recently have been so bad I have actually refitted the original vintage bearings and not used the new ones I got to replace them. I'm going to start looking for a bearing supplier (not specifically for RC) who can do quality bearings because getting fed up of the junk being sold for premium prices for RC cars.

 

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On 8/22/2020 at 11:22 AM, ramdriveUK said:

Nice, I won't comment on the body, but will say my OCD has gone into overdrive! What have you done to the rear wing 🤣

Is this one better?  :-)

20200924_074511.jpg

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On 9/24/2020 at 7:34 AM, mud4fun said:

I will say that the bodge of using the 1150 bearing probably wouldn't work these days anyway regardless of whether they fit. The quality of modern bearings is dreadful. I have actually stripped down a buggy recently, fitted with 20+ year old Tamiya bearings (sealed both sides) and the bearings ran smoothly and felt like new. In comparison the brand new set of genuine Tamiya bearings felt worse. Some of the cheaper bearings I've bought recently have been so bad I have actually refitted the original vintage bearings and not used the new ones I got to replace them. I'm going to start looking for a bearing supplier (not specifically for RC) who can do quality bearings because getting fed up of the junk being sold for premium prices for RC cars.

 

I found this to, I use NMB or NSK ABEC 3  bearings.

Re the 1150, I would rather do the job properly and use the correct thrust washer, there must be a reason why Tamiya spec'd a thrust race in the first place. Also the 'proper' thrust race is thinner...

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20 hours ago, MrBlz said:

Is this one better?  :-)

20200924_074511.jpg

Very nice, BUT the blue to white transition above the 4WD is sloppy :-)

Love to see you do an Avante cockpit!

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5 hours ago, ramdriveUK said:

20200924_074511.jpg.3c104cbd0dc94af0e262150ea0d0a08e.jpg

Point taken.  I found it difficult to mask in the area and got some bleed.   :-(

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My middle Daughter (aged 16) completed here re-re Terra Scorcher yesterday other than painting the cockpit/drivers head. She thoroughly enjoyed the build, didn't really have any issues with chassis other than struggling to get a circlip in place and needed me to put it on for her. I painted the shell for her and helped her with the four large decals as she was really struggling to get them lined up and bent around the edges with creasing.

She is running a Tamiya super sport RR motor in it at the moment with a Modelsport Sniper ESC and futaba 2.4Ghz radio

The original wheels and tyres have been put away for safe keeping and a new set of DF03 2.2 inch white wheels and schumacher 2.2 inch mini pin spikes have been fitted for use in the garden.

1047743830_new_terror_scorcher(4).thumb.jpg.f6d30fd72473dcd7507c909a9bb12f48.jpg

 

Also shown here is our current operational thundershot based fleet

and yes, the crawler is a heavily modified thundershot!

We like these buggies :-)

The black thundershot is my youngest daughters, the white thundershot and terra scorcher are my middle daughters and the crawler and purple/green iridescent terra scorcher is mine.

 

265447285_new_terror_scorcher(1).thumb.jpg.2b4167a9efc257af866061999bb17fd4.jpg

Could do with Tamia re-releasing the thundershot as I'd like to get some new shells and stickers.

 

 

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6 hours ago, mud4fun said:

Could do with Tamia re-releasing the thundershot as I'd like to get some new shells and stickers.

I have TBG bodies with MCI decals on over half my collection (including ALL the Thundershot family)

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