Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Mad Ax

Super Astute racing - hop-ups / spares required?

Recommended Posts

So I've got myself a Super Astute for a bit of vintage racing this year.  I don't race hard and I'm not competitive but I'd like to know in advance if there's any weak points or serious flaws that I should know about before I arrive trackside.  I wouldn't want to go out in practice and break a part and be sidelined all day (been there, done that - I'll have a Bear Hawk as a class-legal spare car but that's a big change from a Super Astute).

I see the kit comes with oil dampers.  Assuming these are CVA type, I guess they're fine for racing and there's no need to track down a set of hi-caps or modern alloy shocks.

I've added bearings to the order.  I understand the kit has bearings for the transmission but not for the hubs / wheels, so that's taken care of.

As I understand the kit transmission has been updated for reliability, so I don't need to hunt down a vintage aftermarket diff or gear set.  Am I right, and will I be OK running a mid-spec brushless system or 17 turn brushed motor?  I haven't decided on a power system yet, recommendations gladly accepted.

Any other areas that could benefit from hop-ups to make it a reasonable vintage track racer?  Some racing will be on dirt and grass, some on outdoor astro.

Should I stock up on spares?  I'm not into buying a whole second kit for spares, I'd rather buy one or two trees of the parts that are likely to break.

Any tips on build for a more robust car?  Shock tower bracing, longer screws, etc?

Thanks :)

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Change the chassis to carbon fiber. I'm not sure if the Tamiya FRP will hold up. Also get a set of turnbuckles-titanium or alloy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kid168 said:

Change the chassis to carbon fiber. I'm not sure if the Tamiya FRP will hold up. Also get a set of turnbuckles-titanium or alloy. 

Will the chassis break, or is it just flexible which affects the handling?

Can you make a carbon top deck for it and keep the original chassis?  People say the Top Force is flexible and the carbon one is better, but mine seems very rigid, so wondering if the Super Astute can end up the same?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I shouldn't be contributing to this as every time the Super Astute comes up someone yells at me but I'm a slow learner so... The chassis won't break on its own. It is pretty flexible. You are correct @Jonathon Gillham. The Top Force works fine with FRP because  of its dual decks. The monoplate SA winds up being flexy. There have been accounts that the chassis on the original flexed enough to crack the battery cups at times. I've not personally experienced this so just putting that out there. Some form of top deck would certainly help. Just looking at the buggy at what normally breaks in typical racing collisions and such, I'd say the typical suspension components are vulnerable like any 2wd buggy (just in the SA'a case everything is un-reinforced rock hard PC). The front brace used to be weak on these cars (Astute, Madcap) but the SA's brace (G4) is the best of the bunch so it might not be an issue. Looking at it, I'm leery of the front D5 part. I could see the front tower stressing/breaking it in a hard rollover. I'd normally also keep an eye on the rear inner arm mounts (D1). They're installed with press nuts which are fractures waiting to happen in ABS/PC, but... Tamiya did go the extra mile on the SA by providing a cross brace, tying them together for support. Might be ok there. Tamiya ditched the more flexible/resilient arm material from the Madcap and went with hard PC for the SA, presumably for less flex and more precision. Hard or not, I haven't heard of them being particularly failure prone though. Despite what some have attacked me for in the past, the front shocks do bottom out before the chassis on the SA. Being relatively light and at the front on a 2wd buggy might not make this an issue though. Because its use of non-reinforced plastics, anything is up for breaking in race-type accidents, but honestly, that's the truth regardless of the plastics used. Racing is hard on a vehicle and weird things break sometimes. Kontemax did some nice articles on the Astute family. I believe they're floating around here somewhere and are definitely over at Tamiyabase. BTW, personally, if I can fit something other than press nuts (into plastic) in an area, I try to do it, but that's just me.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Jump on Shapeways or ORB Racing fb page and get yourself all of their 3D printed upgrades, then keep the kit parts as spare.  You'll need extra 3mm hex nuts when using ORB parts which is great because they replace the press nuts which suck.  Front and rear bulkheads, front support and the rear suspension arm mounts are the most important.

Re: Rear suspension arm mounts  -  actually using the unused parts (C parts) from any Blitzer Beetle / Stadium Blitzer is the best option for the rear arm mounts.  Unused on the Blitzer and you only need to cut a small piece off to clear the SA rear arms, then fit them with longer machine screws and a nut on the front mounting screw.  Simple and essential for the SA.

 

 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's awesome, thanks peeps :) I built a Blitzer a good few years back now, I probably still have the remnants of the C parts tree somewhere.

I did spot a link to a CF chassis a couple of days ago, will see how the budget holds up.  I didn't realise the SA was a single deck.  Failing that I could probably make a top deck from FRP.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Xtraspeed do a chassis kit.  It's on my Wishlist !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Thommo said:

Xtraspeed do a chassis kit.  It's on my Wishlist !

Nice kit Thommo! As I am not the super expert for the Astute, do you think it also fits the original Astute?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Thommo said:

Xtraspeed do a chassis kit.  It's on my Wishlist !

That kit looks good and a good price too. Is it designed for the hicap dampers upfront? The front shock tower looks tall

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi @ruebiracer

I'm only going off the RCMart pics but that absolutely looks to suit the Astute.  Holes for the lateral battery positions are there so all same.  Shock towers look the same to my eyes too. 

xtraspeed-xs-ta29001-1.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seeing as last year pretty much went into a permanent hiatus a few weeks after your initial post I'm sort of guessing the answer, but -did this grind to a halt or were you able to start this project @Mad Ax? If yes, which parts, if any, did you end up replacing, how did it fare on the track etc? 

And, did you get the Xtraspeed kit yet @Thommo

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow - a year to the day exactly, and on my birthday too :)

I actually got the Super Astute built and entered in last year's Revival, which went ahead in early September, during what we then thought of as the end of the pandemic what we now realise was the Eye of the Storm.  It went pretty well although I'm really not that good with 2wd off road.  I built it as follows:

Fibre Lyte chassis and shock towers (using Dyna Storm style long front tower with cross brace) 

Tamiya CVA shocks

Various Schumacher tyres depending on weather

Full Option Racing alloy transmission brace

Turnigy 13.5T brushless motor

I made a mistake in assembling the front shocks and didn't have much droop, I didn't even realise this until it was sitting on the shelf above my desk and I could visibly see the lack of front droop compared to the rear.  That might have explained its tendency to fall in when accelerating hard out of the bottom corner, which went into a straight along a steep bank.  Basically as soon as the weight came off the front wheels, gravity would pull it inward and I'd end up in the infield.  I made it driveable by adding some lead up front but I hope it will be better this year now the shocks are sorted.

The fibre lyte chassis was missing some countersinks, so I had to add those manually.  At the time I only had a cheap countersink for wood, which took an age to get through the carbon.

I had originally intended to buy printed parts to fit hex nuts, but the cost was starting to look crazy for a car that will get raced once a year, so I just bought spare D parts instead.  I also had intended to fit the unused part from the Blitzer C tree but completely forgot.  Nothing broke.

Funny story though - literally 2 days after my last post, I managed to break the rear upright on my Blitzer Beetle.  There were none in the UK at the end of Feb / start of March, and we all know what happened next - I didn't get a replacement for my Blitzer Beetle until the middle of the summer.  In all the excitement of a) having a working Blitzer Beetle again and 2) being allowed to go racing again, I totally forgot to fit the spare brace to the Super Astute.

And in another big fat coincidence (or not, as I don't know what triggered the reply to this year-old thread), this weekend marks the opening rush for Revival 2021 entries.  Just a few hours ago I chose the Super Astute as my 1st choice for this year's event, so fingers cross that a) my entry is successful, 2) I get my 1st choice class and iii) global events allow the race meet to go ahead this year :) 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Robert5000 said:

And, did you get the Xtraspeed kit yet @Thommo

 

No, it's still on the wish list.  It would be a luxury and would tempt me to start building another Astute with the replaced chassis...

I have another project in mind so I have a decision to make.  😀

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Mad Ax said:

Wow - a year to the day exactly, and on my birthday too :)

I actually got the Super Astute built and entered in last year's Revival, which went ahead in early September, during what we then thought of as the end of the pandemic what we now realise was the Eye of the Storm.  It went pretty well although I'm really not that good with 2wd off road.  I built it as follows:

Fibre Lyte chassis and shock towers (using Dyna Storm style long front tower with cross brace) 

Tamiya CVA shocks

Various Schumacher tyres depending on weather

Full Option Racing alloy transmission brace

Turnigy 13.5T brushless motor

I made a mistake in assembling the front shocks and didn't have much droop, I didn't even realise this until it was sitting on the shelf above my desk and I could visibly see the lack of front droop compared to the rear.  That might have explained its tendency to fall in when accelerating hard out of the bottom corner, which went into a straight along a steep bank.  Basically as soon as the weight came off the front wheels, gravity would pull it inward and I'd end up in the infield.  I made it driveable by adding some lead up front but I hope it will be better this year now the shocks are sorted.

The fibre lyte chassis was missing some countersinks, so I had to add those manually.  At the time I only had a cheap countersink for wood, which took an age to get through the carbon.

I had originally intended to buy printed parts to fit hex nuts, but the cost was starting to look crazy for a car that will get raced once a year, so I just bought spare D parts instead.  I also had intended to fit the unused part from the Blitzer C tree but completely forgot.  Nothing broke.

Funny story though - literally 2 days after my last post, I managed to break the rear upright on my Blitzer Beetle.  There were none in the UK at the end of Feb / start of March, and we all know what happened next - I didn't get a replacement for my Blitzer Beetle until the middle of the summer.  In all the excitement of a) having a working Blitzer Beetle again and 2) being allowed to go racing again, I totally forgot to fit the spare brace to the Super Astute.

And in another big fat coincidence (or not, as I don't know what triggered the reply to this year-old thread), this weekend marks the opening rush for Revival 2021 entries.  Just a few hours ago I chose the Super Astute as my 1st choice for this year's event, so fingers cross that a) my entry is successful, 2) I get my 1st choice class and iii) global events allow the race meet to go ahead this year :) 

Oh, wow -these coincidences made me unreasonably happy! I must've been particularly slow yesterday since I didn't register that it was exactly a year since your post. So glad that you were able to make this happen in a year that was unusually efficient in cancelling and postponing most everything. 

Since you went the Fibrelyte route I guess I'll give Xtraspeed a go just for the sake of it (and because @Thommo hasn't tried it either.) Having a chance to compare what's available out there is always good. 

As for what prompted me to write yesterday. I was fumbling my TXT2 build and needed a distraction to avoid chucking it into the fireplace, so watched the draw of the IconicRC raffle. There was a lot of chatter of the upcoming entries of the Revival, which made me wish I was building a re re Super Astute instead of the TXT2, and that participating in the Revival was a viable option what with the North Sea between me and the track and this whole covid debacle. That sent me searching for the four year old thread where I asked if building my nib Super Astute and entering into a vintage race in Sweden was a sane move. @Thommo jumped in with some excellent advice there as well, as always. So there was a lot of full circles going on here yesterday :) 

Happy belated birthday,, hope it was a good one!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Robert5000 said:

participating in the Revival was a viable option what with the North Sea between me and the track and this whole covid debacle

Here's hoping it will be viable again when all this is over or once some sort of vaccine passport system is arranged.  There are a few people come across from northern Europe for the Revival.  A few Brits also travel to the Oldschool Euro Masters in the Netherlands.  This vintage racing malarkey is an international brotherhood:)

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I run my vintage Astsute with the rere Super differential.  As stated use the RC10 B4 spur with slipper pads, additionally use differential putty in the gear differential. Go light on in unitl you get the feel that you want. 

Jazrider makes Aluminum hubs for the OG not sure what they have for the Super. 

Pergu makes metal rear suspension mounts and front bulk head. Id look into those, they were the week link on the originals.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/20/2021 at 7:19 PM, Mad Ax said:

And in another big fat coincidence (or not, as I don't know what triggered the reply to this year-old thread), this weekend marks the opening rush for Revival 2021 entries.  Just a few hours ago I chose the Super Astute as my 1st choice for this year's event, so fingers cross that a) my entry is successful, 2) I get my 1st choice class and iii) global events allow the race meet to go ahead this year :) 

So, how did you fare? And when does your thread in the race section start where you log everything from now on, preparations, tribulations etc leading up to the revival? First post today perhaps? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Robert5000 said:

So, how did you fare? And when does your thread in the race section start where you log everything from now on, preparations, tribulations etc leading up to the revival? First post today perhaps? 

We knew spaces would be limited this year (tbh it always is), so we are all advised to list as many classes as possible.   IIRC I listed myself in 4 classes in total for 2wd Saturday, as I have a few 2wd cars from across the ages, and 3 on 4wd Sunday - including one class for a chassis I don't even own (it would have been an excuse to buy an NIB Thunder Dragon if I'd got into that class!).

In the end, there were 3 times as many entries as there were places - a combination of people returning to the hobby due to the pandemic and a lack of other big events running.  So many places that the organizers are now running 2 Revivals this year - the "main event" in July and the "re-release" in September!

So I didn't get my first choice in either class - which I hasten to add is absolutely no problem whatsoever.  My choices were only based on what's ready to go (Super Astute) or what will be fun to make ready (Hotshot with FRP chassis) - but I'm just happy to race and to see my old buddies, no matter what cars I'm driving.

So on 2wd day I got into the Truck class - this was a new class for 2020 for vintage trucks.  Unfortunately it's not old Monster Trucks because I would be all over that in a flash - I absolutely love racing my King Blackfoot - but stadium trucks and conversion (RC10T and the like).  So I'm in that class - with a Blitzer Beetle :o 

On 4wd Sunday I got into 89-93, which is Top Force and Evo (among others).  So my Evo will have its 5th Revival in a row.  I started at thread in Builds about it a couple of days ago (wasn't really sure if it should be in Builds or Racing, first it seemed better in Builds as I was planning to document a strip and rebuild of the TFE, but after 3 hours of writing it turned out to be more of a recollection of race experiences, so may have been better in Racing).

So - no Super Astute threads coming up, but I will be starting a new Blitzer Beetle thread soon.  At the weekend I fitted a DT03 turnbuckle kit and I'll be doing some setup changes and buying in some springs and changing the shock rate, as it's a bit stiff at the moment.  Thread to follow when I finally have time for it :)

(I am really behind on sorting out my Workshop Sunday update)

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, man! Amazing work from the organizers to arrange the re-release to give everyone a shot at participation! That's dedication! 

And as much as I'd enjoy a Super Astute thread, I'm sure I'll find lots of interesting and enjoyable bits in the EVO and Blitzer Beetle threads as well. And hopefully you'll go beyond the purely building and tweaking parts of it and take us through all your preparations so we can live vicariously through you :) 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...