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Saito2

What would you do? virus question

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Like many, this virus has put me in a jam. My employer made some "interesting" decisions about the virus situation that I've mentioned in the other thread on the subject. I'll try to be brief. Even though everyone else in the area is shut down for minimally two weeks, our employer isn't. If an individual's place of work does shut down, they can collect unemployment assistance but since ours won't close, we have to keep working through this. The virus is close now, entering our county with confirmed cases that will no doubt grow in number. I'm planning on taking a a two week unpaid leave with some other employees as we simply don't feel safe anymore. Aside from extra hand sanitizer, nothing much is being done. Folks aren't even practicing social distancing (or simply can't due to the nature of their job). Much could happen in that two weeks including the possibility of a mandatory shut down or nothing could happen. Who knows. What do you all think of taking the unpaid two weeks to see how this all plays out?

Furthermore, down the line, is the situation worsens in two weeks and my employer still hasn't recognized the seriousness of the situation (from all accounts, its full speed ahead and work normally as if nothing is happening, they NO plans in place as of today other than to keep working) do I go back? I'm financially capable of supporting myself for a year without work. My only fear is a possible recession/depression could mean jobs could be slim in a year's time. On the other hand if the virus hits the factory we would all be in danger and the place might collapse anyway. I'm in my early 40's with a "minor" pre-existing condition that may be considered detrimental although, I'm fairly healthy normally.Thoughts?

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That is tough. I think the 2 weeks makes sense, even if only for your own peace of mind (assuming they won't do something vindictive like fire you for it). I'm starting to work from home tomorrow as much as I can, but I'll still need to go into the office occasionally for some things. And even if we get a "shelter-in-place" order like San Francisco did, I'll probably still have to work, because my work is tied to building trades, and housing construction is considered "essential" work. We're under contract; if the job site is open, we have to send guys there.

In the long term, an employer who reacts that badly to a situation like this, honestly, deserves to go out of business. At the very least, they deserve to lose some talent for their short-sightedness.

At least you have some cushion; I know a lot of people who own their own small business who are in very real danger of going under. And a lot of service employees who are in trouble as well, though restaurants can still sell take-out food here. (And one "gentleman's club" that is known for its excellent food is offering delivery service... by a topless dancer.) I really hope, for their sake, that some of this aid package actually comes through.

I say take the 2 weeks, if nothing else, for a mental health break. We all need to do what we can to keep ourselves sane so we're still "there" on the other side of it.

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You are in an enviable position.  Or rather, because of your atypical circumstance, you could be where you are now. (everything comes with a silver lining)  I might be fine for 3-4 months, but not for a year.  If this happened 5 years ago, I might have gone under.  Some hard lessons later, you'd think I'd be good for 8-9 months. But I count myself luckier than some folks who are where I was 5 years ago.  Hopefully, this wouldn't last long. 

I'd take the unpaid leave now.  In 2 weeks, we could reach 70% of the maximum infection.  Or because of the size of the country, the spread might be slower and steadier.  From China and Korea, we can guess that it's going to reach the peak in 4-6 weeks, and calm down in 3 months.  (China claims Covid19 is from America. I don't trust their numbers. But Korea seems to be okay after 3 months)  With Italy scaring Americans into isolation, it might not be as bad for us.  After 2 weeks, we'll know more. You can make the decision then.  Hopefully, we won't be welded inside our homes like the Chinese...

I'm worried about "after effect."  Even after no more new infections, in 2 months or so, people will be weary of restaurants for additional month or two.  

 

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In short,in your shoes, I'd be inclined to take the two weeks. The bricks and mortar building will still be there long after this has passed to go back to.

As @Juggular points out the peak is yet to come for the later infected areas. And is for this reason My wife and I have had to make a difficult decision to not bring our son home from Mississippi on a flight at he end of March as we felt travelling by that time would put him at a much higher risk than sitting it out where he is with friends for now. He was booked originally to return in May but that flight has been cancelled. It is really starting to kick off in Australia now so he would be put into isolation for at least 2 weeks upon landing as it was announced yesterday that ANYONE arriving from overseas to here is faced with a travel ban in the country as well. Rather he stays where he is than get stuck God knows where.

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3 hours ago, Re-Bugged said:

In short,in your shoes, I'd be inclined to take the two weeks. The bricks and mortar building will still be there long after this has passed to go back to.

As @Juggular points out the peak is yet to come for the later infected areas. And is for this reason My wife and I have had to make a difficult decision to not bring our son home from Mississippi on a flight at he end of March as we felt travelling by that time would put him at a much higher risk than sitting it out where he is with friends for now. He was booked originally to return in May but that flight has been cancelled. It is really starting to kick off in Australia now so he would be put into isolation for at least 2 weeks upon landing as it was announced yesterday that ANYONE arriving from overseas to here is faced with a travel ban in the country as well. Rather he stays where he is than get stuck God knows where.

my brother and his wife live in the Great Miss Sip and he says so far they seem a lot more well off then most states., i'd leave your son there if all possible.

i won't make light of this but rather say i always look at the glass half full (ALWAYS!) so on that note i'm going to continue to eat chocolate  chip cookies.

if your son needs anything money, place to stay or?

my brother is in Law Enforcement (with 6 years in Germany as an MP during the first Gulf WAR) he has two kids, only one resides with him and his wife a nurse, He's a Great Brother.

i can wire your son cash Just PM me and i'll make gosh darn sure your son is taken care of.

i'm in California, but have relatives  all over this nation.

so God Bless.

56 years on this ride we call life, and i'm still wearing no seat belt:lol:

 

 

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It's a tough decision but in two weeks you might still be on the up-slope.  I don't know how bad things are in your area, in my little corner of Britain we don't have that many cases but because I have the option of working from home, I am.  Not for the sake of my own health, but to reduce the risk of spreading the virus.  That's most important right now - slowing the spread.  Give the hospitals time to get ready for what is most likely going to happen.  Unfortunately this puts a massive strain on the economy.  We can hope our governments will step in with measures to help those worst affected, we don't know for sure what will be done but for now I'm choosing to put my trust in the government.  I don't usually but I figure it's my best choice.

I personally am not worried about catching the virus.  By most accounts, healthy adults and children don't suffer too bad.  "Symptoms may be minor or you may be asymptomatic."  I've had flu and I survived.  It was horrible, but it wasn't deadly.  I really don't want to get COVID-19 but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.  If I get it, I get it.  If my getting it helps us to develop a herd immunity, then I've done my part.  Science can't yet tell us whether recovering gives you full immunity.  If it does, I'd rather get it now.  The problem is I might be contagious for a few days before I show symptoms (or have no symptoms at all) so by carrying on as normal I could be spreading the infection instead of helping to slow it.  That's why I'm reducing my exposure.  Not to stop me from getting it, but to stop me from spreading it if I already have it or contract it in the next few months.

We have been told that we won't be on a downward curve for another 12 weeks.  That's the first half of the summer gone.  Fortunately we're not on complete lockdown yet (and the government has said they don't want to do that unless absolutely necessary) so it's up to us to be responsible about how we move.  I'm still doing my weekly shopping (deliveries are fully booked for 2 weeks and we only keep enough food for 1), will likely have to spend more time travelling to shops trying to hunt down products on empty shelves (thank you, panic buyers, for making this problem worse for everybody and increasing our risk of infection and spread), still taking my daughter to relatives twice a week so my wife and I can continue to work while the nurseries are closed.  We'll probably get out and about in the car just to get a change of scenery too.  We'll take the camper to a beach this weekend just for the fresh air.  We have food, water and toilet, so the only time we'll have to interface with anyone is if we need fuel.

So firstly it's about your health - if you think you are at risk, isolation is probably best case for you.  Bad news is 2 weeks will probably not be nearly enough.  Only you or your doctor can make that call.  If you're not in a risk group, and nobody in your family is, your best option is to minimise contact and take the precautions you can to slow the spread for everyone else.  Whether that means working or not working would have to be your choice.

 

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2 hours ago, Snappy1 said:

2 weeks then reassess ......

I think this will probably be my game plan. It is a guessing game of timing (risk of staying escalating/rate of spread, etc.), but everything else shut down a week ago and I stuck it out an extra week. My child is likely done school for the rest of the year too. I do like my actual job a great deal, though it doesn't make me a great deal of money. We our very very fortunate in this situation that we live cheap with no car payments etc., just the mortgage that is within our means. I seriously don't want to lose it (I know just how horrible jobs can be, the grass isn't always greener on the other side) but if they aren't going to take this seriously...It was truly ****htening when I spoke with the folks at the top about it. They were completely un- prepared and hadn't even really begun to formulate any plans while the world around them shut down. They're 2 to 3 steps behind most of the workers in their though processes. There was possible concern in their eyes but blank stares about any possible scenarios for moving forward. AFAIK, the only plan is to run until the factory gets infected or the government forces a shut down or supplier shut downs cause us to run out of parts. I really hate to think this way but there is an increasingly eerie feeling this is about money over safety. I don't like to think that way...Thank you all very much for your input and sharing your stories. I'm glad to hear other's thoughts as I'm pretty much alone steering this ship for my family. Tough times for all I'm afraid.

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I'd take the 2 weeks and use the time to prepare for the long haul. I don't think the situation is going to do anything but get worse in the next 2 weeks. It might give your employer time to wake up to reality. If you have a pre-existing condition you're better off unemployed than risking getting infected.

 I'm in self isolation and the situation seems to be going nuts here (UK). Watching BBC news some people are saying it could be over a year before things improve. My folks are self isolating and when they tried to book an on-line delivery of food from a well known supermarket, the earliest delivery slot they could get was in 3 weeks time. I've been trying to shop around for some face masks, and masks I used by for building work DIY etc that used to cost just over a quid each are now selling for £25 each on Ebay. Ebay say they're trying to take down listings that are profiteering but they don't seem to be trying very hard. All the builders merchants that have them listed for sensible money are all sold out. (Clearly entrepreneurial people have cleaned them out and relisted them on Ebay).

 Also my wife reports you can't get rice, pasta, or bread in the local supermarkets. I know in times of crisis the joke goes 'It's time to stock up on canned food and shotguns', but people here seem to be taking half that advice seriously, judging from the spaces on the supermarket shelves. The people that have a bunker at the bottom of their garden with 2 years supply of food suddenly don't seem so eccentric any more.

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Well the state is now forcing the shut-down of all "non life sustaining" businesses. Unfortunately, my company called into the capital and stretched the truth quite a bit claiming we are a medical supply company (we aren't) to stay open. In actuality, we make health/wellness relaxation equipment. Meanwhile management is scrambling to pivot the business into marketing our portable tables into something for hospital use. I imagine they're practically drooling at the chance to cash in on this disaster. To cut cost, some (of the lucky ones, actually) got laid off and hours for all got cut.  Everyone else is expected to show up and plow forward despite an actual Covid case unfolding right in our small town at the moment. Management's biggest concern is carefully wording the fact no one's getting to go home with any form of compensation or unemployment assistance and thus forced to keep working in a questionable work environment until the virus hits the factory and brings the whole house of cards down. Their biggest fear is, next week, when things are expected to really hit the fan, too many just walk off in fear, ending the company. I guess, in the end, despite making about 1/4 of what the lowest management makes, the skilled laborers will be in better shape for finding work if the market goes bad. 

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We just got another update from our MD this morning.

Pay will remain at 100% until May, by which point we will reassess but the likely outcome is folks will be reduced to 80% of their pay. We were schedule to get our annual bonuses on the 15th April, these have now been postponed indefinitely (I was expecting a healthy £10k, pre-tax - the biggest bonus I have ever seen in my lifetime). 

Still I will count myself lucky if I still have a job to return to when all of this has blown over.

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Like some of you guys, the company I work for is still running, so I'm still working,  we've to sit one per table in the canteen, and if we need to work closer than 2mtr, full hazardous chemical PPE and RPE to be worn. Dust masks have been sent back to the supplier, for redistribution. 

They have said if we present symptoms, or high risk,  we've to stay at home, as per government guidelines, but , I'm not the type of person just to lie to get to isolate, but do have asthma and high blood pressure (But not considered high risk, or ?🤷‍♂️

Tbh, I feel more vulnerable at the supermarket, but sounds like I'm the only person to have no real issues getting what I need, although, tins of spaghetti hoops and macaroni cheese  (daughters favourites) have eluded me so far.

 

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13 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

and if we need to work closer than 2mtr, full hazardous chemical PPE and RPE to be worn. Dust masks have been sent back to the supplier, for redistribution. 

I wish my employer had safeguards in place like that. It looks like I'll be going back next week. From what I've heard, they still don't have thermometers ready for testing before entering the building. They may resort to just asking questions like "how do you feel?" when folks come in. They really don't seem to grasp that Covid can be spread before symptoms show up despite my continued warnings. More likely, they don't care. There still is no form of social distancing, people still working side-by-side and face-to-face. IF someone in the plant does get it, I guarantee they'll keep quite about it to keep the rest of us working. I keep going round and round in my head about this, but keep coming back to the conclusion this is about pure greed when everybody could be laid off and collect for a few months until the worst its past. I feel quite doomed to eventually get it (not good since I'm diabetic) but on the other hand, am worried potential economic fallout might make finding a new job impossible later on. Plus there's always the risk of grocery shopping anyway.

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Well, that's me off work.

I started with a banging head in the evening, just put it down to dehydration and 4 bottles of bud (lightweight!?! 😳) , but once in bed, my throat was killing me, I could feel my whole body move with my heart beat, and started sweating, but a temp of 37°c. 

Spoke to one of my mates, who's Mrs tested positive, and that's how he started. Oh goodie....

I've been to work (88hrs last week) and the supermarket once in just over 2 weeks ,and that was after a nightshift so only a handful of people in the store, I'm hoping I'm just a bit run down...🤞

 

 

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OMG, I'm so sorry. I hope everything turns out ok. Keep us updated and take care.

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Woders28, I'm sorry to hear you may be infected.  Please take good care of yourself and I hope you recover soon.

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Thanks guys, it is rife where I am (near Glasgow). Got me thinking as to how, or where?

In work - but we wear better protection than the hospitals have.

At the supermarket - but only maybe 15 of us the full store, and didn't go in an isle if someone was there.

The only other, which I didn't think anything of too much at the time , was we ordered a takeaway last Saturday night, as per every Sat nightshift, but our usual place had shut, ran out of food, so must have been somewhere not that popular (found one on, just eat, that would deliver, and phoned them...😬

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I'm in no way proclaiming to be any kind of expert on the subject. The experts themselves don't have a full grasp on it yet for that matter. I just read an article by one doctor suggesting touching contaminated surfaces and then touching one's face could be a key way for transmission. When you stop and think how commonly we rub our eyes, nose, mouth etc. distractedly, without thinking...There seems to be some different opinions on how long it last on various surfaces. At first it was 3 days on optimal surfaces. That then jumped to 5 days. Now I read about people entering a contaminated cruise ship and found the virus alive on some surfaces for up to 17 days. If there's truth to it, that's staggering.

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I live about 2 miles from @Wooders28 and it seems to be pretty rife here. I had a mild cold about two weeks ago but nothing major, so don't think Covid-19 what I had.

As my wife is pregnant we decided to self isolate almost three weeks ago. I've been working from home for three weeks now, although work will dry up today or tomorrow so not sure what'll happen next. The only times we've been out for is daily walks with the kids and in order to minimise risk I'm the only one who has been walking the dog and going for our shopping. Other than lentils and pasta we haven't struggled to get anything from the shelves although I refuse to panic buy and only pick up what we need at a particular time. Thankfully we're always stocked up on pasta as that's a staple in our house, as it no doubt is in most others. 

Hope you keep well @Wooders28, if yoi need anything let me know as I'm about. Will need to see you and the girls in a couple of months when this blows over.

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30 minutes ago, Kevin_Mc said:

Hope you keep well @Wooders28, if yoi need anything let me know as I'm about. Will need to see you and the girls in a couple of months when this blows over.

Thanks mate, and thanks for your offer , we're good atm though.

I was hoping to build a track in the back garden this weekend, downloaded the "laptrax" for the mobile (uses the camera and, motion detection, to count laps and times) and had the daughters out using the bullhead the other day, to try and gauge how tight the track needed to be.....I'm just going to mow a track for me, and they can go where they want 🤦‍♂️😂😂

If I get it built, you can always go on a 2 mile walk along the luggie....🤔

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4 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

Thanks mate, and thanks for your offer , we're good atm though.

I was hoping to build a track in the back garden this weekend, downloaded the "laptrax" for the mobile (uses the camera and, motion detection, to count laps and times) and had the daughters out using the bullhead the other day, to try and gauge how tight the track needed to be.....I'm just going to mow a track for me, and they can go where they want 🤦‍♂️😂😂

If I get it built, you can always go on a 2 mile walk along the luggie....🤔

Surely that's deemed as 'essential' and I can throw the Mad Bull in the car?! :lol:

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Well, back to work on Monday. I agonized over the decision for 2 weeks. Nothing has really changed at work. In the end, the fear of a big recession looming at the end of this, making jobs hard to get, won out. Worse case, I get it (possibly die, but I'm going to try to not dwell on that or my diabetes being a factor) and the place goes under anyway. Best case, I avoid getting it and I still have a job after this mess is all over. 

From the get-go I didn't understand the anti-mask sentiment from our government. I immediately understood that it wasn't about keeping the virus from entering oneself but rather to prevent the spread of it from those having it without the symptoms showing up yet. I guess it was to prevent a flood of people running out and buying up mask so badly needed by our healthcare professionals fighting the hard fight. Well, knowing people, that happened anyway. Now the federal and state governments seem to have come around on the idea that mask can slow the spread. I'd feel a lot better if everyone abided by this, with everybody doing their part. Considering my community doesn't seem to understand what social distancing means (people are still hanging out together in numbers and going to each others houses in numbers due to boredom) I don't have much hope. It doesn't help the orange man they follow has said he doesn't intend to lead by example. My wife's making us mask anyway. Its staggering to think that at this point, locals still consider this a hoax somehow aimed at hurting president. I hope everyone stays healthy and safe through this and wish a speedy recovery to @Wooders28.

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On 4/4/2020 at 11:20 AM, Saito2 said:

Well, back to work on Monday. I agonized over the decision for 2 weeks. Nothing has really changed at work. In the end, the fear of a big recession looming at the end of this, making jobs hard to get, won out. Worse case, I get it (possibly die, but I'm going to try to not dwell on that or my diabetes being a factor) and the place goes under anyway. Best case, I avoid getting it and I still have a job after this mess is all over. 

From the get-go I didn't understand the anti-mask sentiment from our government. I immediately understood that it wasn't about keeping the virus from entering oneself but rather to prevent the spread of it from those having it without the symptoms showing up yet. I guess it was to prevent a flood of people running out and buying up mask so badly needed by our healthcare professionals fighting the hard fight. Well, knowing people, that happened anyway. Now the federal and state governments seem to have come around on the idea that mask can slow the spread. I'd feel a lot better if everyone abided by this, with everybody doing their part. Considering my community doesn't seem to understand what social distancing means (people are still hanging out together in numbers and going to each others houses in numbers due to boredom) I don't have much hope. It doesn't help the orange man they follow has said he doesn't intend to lead by example. My wife's making us mask anyway. Its staggering to think that at this point, locals still consider this a hoax somehow aimed at hurting president. I hope everyone stays healthy and safe through this and wish a speedy recovery to @Wooders28.

Man, don't get me started on the orange man and his cult of ignorance. 

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On 4/4/2020 at 4:20 PM, Saito2 said:

Well, back to work on Monday

Hope work was ok, and people at work are starting to get there's an actual risk.

My work have announced they're stopping production, more the warehouses are full,  than anything else I'm guessing. 

In the UK there's not really an, anti mask , more, can't get hold of them! I toyed with flinging a box in my locker at work, but people they where going to ,needed them more than me. I don't know why there's a shortage, maybe as we've been late to this party, everyone else has bought , all the toilet roll, so to speak?

Apart from reducing the chance of passing on a virus, a mask also stops you from touching your mouth, so reduces the chance of you passing from your hands to your mouth.

Me, I should have still been in bed until Wednesday, as that would have been 7 days since my symptoms , but the wife couldn't go far from the toilet first thing this morning, and had/has a temp of almost 39°c, so with me now symptom less, it was a bed striped & hot washed, disinfectant wipe everything, ready for the next patient, and I'm on child care duties.

I've still done a bit of cleaning tonight, with the citrus wipes,  I was thinking the citrus smell wears off near the end of the pack, and then just had a pack of salt & vinegar crisps, which tasted of ready salted , just. After a Google, loss of taste and smell have been reported in a large number of cases - so tried a teaspoon of vinegar, lips tingle, bit of a sting on the throat, but thats it. 😟

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So you might be on the mend? I hope so. That's promising news. Are they reporting permanent loss of taste and smell? Oh, man that's not good. I pray you regain yours over time and that your wife recovers quickly.

Well, upon return, nothing was different. People weren't "social distancing" at all. Most were talking in huddles, mere inches from each others faces. I rolled in with my mask on and got a few jokes about it. I don't know what happened, but within an hour a panic set in and everyone was trying to cobble together mask with rags and rubber bands. I know one worker showed up who has a sick family member. Once discovered, he was sent home as it was against the new regulations. By day's end about 80% were in mask, but still no social distancing. People are genuinely confused with the news and doctors reporting one thing (the truth) and the president spinning an alternate narrative half the time. 

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