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nowinaminute

Does you G6-01 ever traction roll/flip? Just looking for reassurance.

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Basically just looking for some validation about this. I think my biggest problem is that I've managed to make my Lunchbox quite resistant to tipping over and it has given me artificially high expectations of what other platforms should be able to achieve. 

I find my Konghead to be pretty stable for the most part, it's amazing on dirt and grass and sand etc but on some of the rougher tarmac surfaces I've driven it on I've found it can occasionally tip over. On smooth tarmac it's fine because it can slip a little bit but on rougher ground I've noticed it will go over sometimes, especially if it starts to slide out a little but then finds grip again.

It's running a 3900KV on 2s so it's a fair bit pokier than the old 27T silver can but not super extreme.

I'm probably just being paranoid that there's something wrong with mine I guess? At the end of the day it has a lot of rubber in contact with the ground and although my Lunchbox seems less prone to it, it also doesn't steer half as tightly and it hasn't got the battery mounted high up on top of the chassis. The back end seems to want to step out inherently too when you corner tightly even if you're still on the throttle a little which is probably a big contributing factor, even with 2ws it seems like likes to pivot around the middle axle.

I know it is very prone to rolling with the 4ws but does anyone else find it happens occasionally even with 2ws? 

I guess I'm worried to run it with the shell on too because of all the plastic accessories hanging off it.

It's not like I think it should be 100% immune to tipping, god knows even stuff like my Slash 4x4 turns into a jelly when I try to run it fast on tarmac not to mention my dump Truck running the 4x4 version of the Konghead platform but I just wanted to see if my experiences were in line with other people's.

I intend to fit the longer arms at some point anyway which should help.

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My G601 is fine with only front wheel steering, rarely tips over. If I put the rear wheel steering in, if you go even mildly fast it’s just on its side or upside down. 
 

moral of the story is if you want to go faster than about 5-10mph forget about the rear steering. 
 

I fitted a TL01 sway bar on the front of mine, which reduced steering a bit, but reduced the tendency for the front to grip and dive causing roll overs. 
 

im planning to put TL01B arms on mine, make it more off road capable and generally more stable.

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I don't really run mine on tarmac so my mileage may vary, but on my patio mine pretty much never tips over.  In fact I'm amazed at how stable it is on most surfaces.  I'm still running stock pogo shocks and to be honest despite the slight quirky handling characteristics of having a second set of wheels almost in the centre of the chassis, I find it extremely well behaved.  I previously ran it with a fairly fast brushless system (although only on grass) and even then it didn't really roll over much, certainly not as much as a high-traction buggy with modern grippy tyres.

I can force it to roll by throwing it hard into a turn, then hitting the brakes.  This is with stock suspension arms and an ABS KBF body on top.

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It hasn't rolled on anything except tarmac so far so that's a bit reassuring. It's not all tarmac either. On really smooth stuff it's just fine but on the slightly rougher stuff like an oft-used car park or road I've had it over a few times. 

Do you guys have the steering EPA on full? I haven't changed it on there but I know on some other vehicles it helps to reduce it a bit. The WR-02G tractors for example just turn so tightly that having it on 100% is just asking for trouble. And my MK1 Blackfoot if you have that on 100% the wheels are so sideways they just get pushed along sideways and it won't turn at all at any kind of real speed. I've learnt with my Blackfood to turn the EPA down and pretty much anything but silky smooth tarmac but that's an archaic design with a very heavy body shell. 

I'm just trying to get a feel for it's limits I guess but I haven't quite been able to pin down why it happens except that it happens on rougher tarmac/asphalt but you can say that of any vehicle to a degree, more side bite increases the likelihood of rolling. It doesn't happen constantly though that's the strange thing, I find I can be pretty care free for a while and then it will suddenly seem to get under itself and go over and then it puts me off driving it fast again. I like to know what the limits are so I can stay inside them without having to be overly cautious.

Most of my driving is on dirt and grass etc but I do come across the odd bit or tarmac when I go for a local walk with an RC so it's worth a little consideration.
 

 

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My very brief brush with a G601 and longer term acquaintance with a Comical Hornet would suggest to me turn down the dual rate on the steering. Don't change the end points, but turning down the dual rate not only reduces throw but it also slows down the response as well. 

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I run my konghead only on the beach, the car is pretty stable and  not have a lot of rollovers, and I run the car with a castle 3800kv sct motor with high speed gears with a 23 tooth pinion and I  running on 3s, it is a night and day differance when i was running the gf-01 heavy dump truck.

The car slides more on the sand then the car tips over, I never run the car on tarmac or grass I think it wil roll over more on it.

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I ended up just turning the endpoint down for now which helps a lot. It's only necessary on grippy surfaces though. This thing has a lot of steering just like the GF01 and WR-02 and the extra pair of wheels adds to that.

I think the main problem I was having was that it tends to oversteer/slide a bit if you ease off the throttle in a corner. A lot of vehicles are quite predictable in this situation and you can use the throttle to adjust the steering line but with the Konghead it really wants to pivot around that middle axle so when you ease off to tighten the line, sometimes it starts to slide out a bit and that puts you in the danger zone because if the tyres find grip that sideways motion gets transferred to tipping the whole thing over.

It's really only an issue on surfaces like that though. On dirt it's pretty difficult to phase it at all.

I've just left the EPA down a bit for now though because it makes it more predictable on the black stuff and it doesn't effect turning on dirt anyway. Seeks fine now.

Only other issue I've had is that silly bumper hitting bumps and tufts of grass etc and causing it to front flip. I got the same problem on my Dump Truck so I just took it off completely and put a smaller Baja King/Twin Detonator style one on there.

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Do you have the rear set up for 4WS? Even if your only using front wheel steer? Anyway if so, if you can reduce the amount of toe in on the rear wheels, it will reduce the tendency to want to flip. If you have it set up as front wheel steer only I don’t think you can adjust it.

 

by the way what front number fits cos I broke mine - the 2 screws both sheared off and snapped on heavy crash. Is there some other type of bumper that fit? I read a TL01b ‘C’ part 0005688 does.

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4 minutes ago, CoolHands said:

Do you have the rear set up for 4WS? Even if your only using front wheel steer? Anyway if so, if you can reduce the amount of toe in on the rear wheels, it will reduce the tendency to want to flip. If you have it set up as front wheel steer only I don’t think you can adjust it.

 

by the way what front number fits cos I broke mine - the 2 screws both sheared off and snapped on heavy crash. Is there some other type of bumper that fit? I read a TL01b ‘C’ part 0005688 does.

It's only 2ws but that's interesting to know. I intended to add 4WS steer anyway and just turn it off when I'm not on dirt but that's a good point about being able to adjust rear toe!

The TL-01B style bumper is exactly the part I mean!

 

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Although thinking about it I suppose the front steer only set up presumably has zero rear toe ( ie parallel) on the rear arms so actually going to 4WS won’t help.
You just have to drive slower!

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I was running my wide g601 on grass alongside the gf01 this afternoon. They both roll really easy on grass or tarmac if turning at speed. The konghead griprolls even though it’s wide & the dump truck is a kartwheeling rolly polly machine :wub:

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25 minutes ago, J@mes said:

I was running my wide g601 on grass alongside the gf01 this afternoon. They both roll really easy on grass or tarmac if turning at speed. The konghead griprolls even though it’s wide & the dump truck is a kartwheeling rolly polly machine :wub:

Glad it's not just me then! When I think about it, my Twin Detonator isn't exactly roll proof on those surfaces so I can imagine not even those arms would totally cure it. Grass can be deceptively grippy though, even my HBX T6/FTX Futura will grip roll on grass and that thing is huge and has a low centre of gravity. And the legendary Traxxas Slash 4x4, in HCG form, is pretty terrible for traction rolling on grippy surfaces even though it's superb on dirt etc.

That's the best and worst thing about the dump truck, it's fun but can be frustrating too. My favourite is when it gets out of shape and starts walking side to side on the back wheels but still somehow stays up right, it's like chaos on wheels lol.

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Yeah mine does quite easily, I mainly use mine in the park or the street outside my house. I guess it is just a combination of contact patch and weight up high. I recently changed from 4ws back to 2ws. My dump truck is easy to roll also, the front of the bed is starting to break through from my daughter doing the left-right-left traction roll.

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On 4/4/2020 at 4:10 AM, dannymulder said:

I run my konghead only on the beach, the car is pretty stable and  not have a lot of rollovers, and I run the car with a castle 3800kv sct motor with high speed gears with a 23 tooth pinion and I  running on 3s, it is a night and day differance when i was running the gf-01 heavy dump truck.

The car slides more on the sand then the car tips over, I never run the car on tarmac or grass I think it wil roll over more on it.

What's the part number for the 'high speed gears' and did you have to modify to fit the 23t pinion? I run mine on 3s with a 4000kv so would be interested to get a bit more top end just for laughs.

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That grip which makes a G6-01 Climb 40% inclines has the side effect of reducing its ability to corner at speed. 

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17 hours ago, nowinaminute said:

The TL-01B style bumper is exactly the part I mean!

Actually I need to go double check that, I think I might have had to use the regular TL01 bumper because of the narrow arms. I can't remember if it was necessary now. The '01B version will definitely work with wide arms though.

 

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My arms are standard if you could have a look at what you used I’d appreciate it. And maybe a photo too?

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On 5/14/2020 at 2:27 AM, nowinaminute said:

Actually I need to go double check that, I think I might have had to use the regular TL01 bumper because of the narrow arms. I can't remember if it was necessary now. The '01B version will definitely work with wide arms though.

 

I grabbed a tl01/m03 bumper (same as the back G601 bumper) out of my spares last time I went to my storage unit, the only thing was the wire U pin that holds the bottom arms on the front together needs the existing bumper mount to hold that on. If you put the same screw pins that hold the middle and rear arms on you could fit it, or that TL01 shaft and e-clip set.

Off to go Google a TL01-B bumper...

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The TL-01B bumper fits fine with the stock G6-01/TL-01 arms. I use them on my TL-01 rally cars. I even had one fitted to my M-03 for a while.

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Guys I completely forgot to check mine. It currently has the smaller TL-01 bumper fitted using screw pins in place of the U shaped pin. I can't remember if the larger tyres scraped the 01b bumper or I just thought it might and didn't try it.

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On 5/13/2020 at 4:36 AM, berman said:

What's the part number for the 'high speed gears' and did you have to modify to fit the 23t pinion? I run mine on 3s with a 4000kv so would be interested to get a bit more top end just for laughs.

The high speed gears are from Square SWR-30A and not tamiya ones, they are hard to find at this moment and sold out everywhere,  I had bought them from banzai hobby I had 4 sets of them 2 sets for the konghead 1 for my wt-01 and 1 for my wr-02, you can run them with a 23 or 25 tooth pinion without moding.

Rc mart sell yeah racing high speed spur gears for it you can run them with a 22 or 24 tooth pinion you need 2 of them.

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which one is less prone to roll? 2WS vs 4WS given the turning radius is the same? 

I mean instead of turning off 4WS on high grip surface, you reduce EPA for the front wheel and keep rear EPA at maximum, so that  your 4WS turning radius is the same as 2WS 

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9 hours ago, Dug180 said:

which one is less prone to roll? 2WS vs 4WS given the turning radius is the same? 

I mean instead of turning off 4WS on high grip surface, you reduce EPA for the front wheel and keep rear EPA at maximum, so that  your 4WS turning radius is the same as 2WS 

ok I had time to answer my own question, with 4WS I had to reduce the EPA in the Front wheel A LOT (by 60%) to get the same turning radius as  2WS 

However at higher speed 2WS will get really bad understeering which makes it less prone to roll, 

At higher speed 4WS  turning radius remains tighter than 2WS because there's no understeer, but you have reduced the EPA on the front the inside wheel will lift a lot slower at full lock and more predictable, you can have all 3 of the inside lift and not roll. 

it's really fun experimenting and tuning but I think I will find a sweet spot for 4WS even for tarmac, 2WS with G6-01 is just not fun and wrong IMO. 

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Interesting update @Dug180, thanks for sharing :)

Personally I love mine on 2WS.  I actually really like that understeery handling, I find it very predictable and I very rarely roll it over.  I get that I could turn tighter with 4WS but I'm not sure if what would destroy the feel of it for me.  But maybe I'll give it a try if I can pick up the steering parts somewhere :) 

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So I was browsing G6-01 parts catalog and I had no idea why this 54296 3x34mm Ball-Head Sus Shaft is suggested as a hop up, but I clicked and ordered 3 pairs of the cheaper non titanium version (51436) for my G6 

you can use it to adjust your bottom dampers position outwards, which will stiffen it up and also reduce ride height a bit as well and this is perhaps the best bang for your buck mod I have done so far. 

my Volvo G6 now feels like it's on rails on ashpalt with 4WS , I am also  usingTRF501X front springs (Hard front,  Medium rear, Medium rear).  I'm using the plastic CVA with 1 hole piston with Tamiya #900 oil, this gives similar damper feeling as using the GF-01 Aluminum dampers.  I also use 2x 54667 camber set 

20210708_080404317_iOS.jpg

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