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Mad Ax

Placing orders during lockdown

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This slightly contentious issue arose during a family discussion this morning.

I'm continuing to earn a wage during lockdown, and although I'm not spending like crazy, I'm trying to keep a steady supply of parts and sundries coming into the house so I can carry on with my projects for as long as this lasts.  If I run out of basic components like screws, rod-ends, allthread or bar stock, my custom builds will dry up and I'll have one less thing to take my mind off the world's problems.

As far as I'm concerned, this is OK.  In the last fortnight I've ordered two bodies from hobby shops, some parts trees, a whole load of aluminium stock and some hardware.  Oh, and some new M3 and M4 taps and an engineer's square to replace the one that mysteriously vanished from my tool rack a month ago.  On average, a parcel is arriving for me every other day.

My wife, OTOH, has stopped all ordering.  She's complaining about not having any new things to do with our daughter because she can't order anything.  When I asked why, she said she doesn't want to take a delivery slot away from a vulnerable person who desperately needs it.

Now, I sort of see the point.  I don't like the idea of venturing out to the supermarket to do my weekly shop, stand in a long queue, expose myself to infection and hope I can get enough in one shop to not have to do it all again in a few days.  But I also appreciate there are people in high-risk groups, or those who are isolating as they believe they may be carrying the virus, who need food deliveries a lot more than I do.  Therefore I don't book food for delivery, much as I'd love to.

Likewise Amazon have updated their delivery schedules to prioritise urgent supplies.  I'm totally fine with that.  A lot of stuff that used to be next day is now 4-5 days delivery time.  That's cool, I can wait for my engineer's square.  Actually it arrived way quicker than promised - I guess they got all the urgent deliveries prioritised and had space for mine on top.  Way to go Amazon.

All the hobby shops I use have updated their home pages to say they'll still be doing deliveries.  I don't know if the business will get any government support if it shuts down completely, and if my orders help to keep shops in business then I'm happy to do it.

I also appreciate that for every order I place, a delivery driver is having to risk infection by going outside.  Is it fair of me to expect someone to take that risk for the sake of a body shell or a bag of screws?  I don't really know.  Also we're being told to stay in and not travel unless necessary, but a delivery from a model shop in Yorkshire means a package must move diagonally across the middle of the country to reach me.  Amazon's homepage states that the risk of infection from a package is very low but is there some chance that placing orders is helping the virus to spread?

I expect there are a lot of Amazon workers still having to go to warehouses and work in close proximity to fulfil these orders.  (In fairness the bulk of my orders don't come from Amazon).

I'm not really sure where I stand on this.  I don't want to have to stop ordering because I'm getting through materials faster than ever and being on such a roll with my projects is keeping me sane during lockdown.  I'm finding it really hard to focus on music and writing - two hobbies I can do with no supplies at all - because I find the entire situation too stressful.  In past dark times I've been able to convert depression and self-loathing into music and fiction, but I've never been able to convert anxiety.

What are your thoughts?  Are things different where you are, or much the same?

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I work in a business that relies on couriers to make it work. Believe me, you are not putting anyone qt anymore risk ordering parts mail order. They would all be at work anyway, because its the only way what little commerce is left running can function. They have distancing signature protocols in place and whilst it's not low risk, the capacity in the courier system is enormous and its not as busy as usual. For food or medical supply deliveries, you are right on the money. These are overstretched and so don't use if you don't have to. But for commercial shopping, more the merrier. Keep people in business, keep yourself sane. Best thing to do is have a quarantine area for post and deliveries where you can spray it with anti bac and leave it for 72 hours before opening. That's belt and braces, but we need to do all we can. 

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I like the idea of a quarantine area.  I was under the impression that the virus can't survive for more than 12 hours on hard surfaces, so any post that arrives can go into the quarantine area and by the following day should be safe.

I worry more about the produce we bring home from the supermarket, which has been in the open on shelves as people walk past, some of which could be left in the quarantine zone overnight but anything that smells of food could attract rodents.

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I think you’re doing the right thing, supporting the modelshops we all love, and need in the future. I do that myself too. The drivers take their precautions here, where they instead of having me sign, they take a picture of me with the parcel or sign themselves.

 

 

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I’d pretend to agree with her 

New orders won’t land for c. 5 days anyway + you can use the time to helpfully point out all the ways your wife can improve whatever she would otherwise be doing ...

By day 4 she’ll suggest you order more 😇

 

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My state is under a "Stay home, Stay safe" order which encourages people to stay and work from home if considered non-essential. My local hobby shop is still open since it was considered essential with reduced hours and the option of curbside service. I recently ordered a Bigwig from RCMart which should be here shortly.

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i can see deliverys stopping very soon as we are coming up to the 3rd week from what the pm said he would review the situation and i recon he will put a further lock down on us as no one really is taking his advice to stay in so i recon that is what will happen.

now the company my son works for is gov controlled and "privet sector" aswell and he was told yesterday as of next week they are on shut down and they have no reported case's of the virus their . i recon the pm will do what he said in his first speech if no one listerns then he will lock down completly.

but back to the question

i have not orderd anything either rc or other in the last 2 weeks just incase this happens i do how ever have stuff i orderd last month from my lhs still waiting their and as far as i am concerned it can stay their as i am not going on public transport at the moment.

plus our postman is only out every second day atm aswell

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28 minutes ago, topforcein said:

i can see deliverys stopping very soon as we are coming up to the 3rd week from what the pm said he would review the situation and i recon he will put a further lock down on us as no one really is taking his advice to stay in so i recon that is what will happen.

Hmm, possibly.  Partly I'm ordering in plenty of stock in case the lockdown goes further.  If it does, it does - we need to do what we need to do.  If I've got plenty of stuff to tide me over, all the better.  I've heard a variety of different things but I don't need to spread them here as they aren't confirmed - there's too much misinformation as it is.

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I was thinking about the same thing a couple of weeks ago, should I take advantage of working from home, and do a few big orders from, stock up on some bodyshells, paint etc, enough to keep me occupied for a couple of months or more, or should I not order anything, as in the scheme of things it’s not that important when people are dying.

In the end, I placed a couple of orders for bearings and screws, small things that would be delivered by Royal Mail rather than anything from couriers – as others may need their services for more essential items than myself.

I’ve soon realised I’ve got a plenty to be getting on with already, and maybe once the situation starts to improve, then I may look to do some orders again, but until we start to see some light at the end of the tunnel, I’m going to avoid ordering anything if possible.

It’s difficult as these companies are open for business, and need to be supported, we could well see a couple of stores closing for good over the next few weeks.

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Keeping money flowing around the country (ie cash flow) is essential if we want to survive 

if nothing was moving around the world then I’d say it was irresponsible to add to it likewise if the demand on the logistic chain was at breaking point.

ive ordered parts and a rere manta ray from tamico 

the risk of exposure from a delivery man is v v low 

JJ

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Despite the low risk, my wife has deemed deliveries to the house as ‘only essential’ and, to be honest, why would I want couriers / the postie to have a greater exposure to risk than me? Or the extra burden on and risk to the health services?

My work banned the delivery of parcels so the front line staff are not exposed to multiple delivery drivers. Fair enough, and we are all WFH now anyway.

On the flip side, my wife made a good point earlier that packaging may be pretty low risk - there are plenty of people working in supermarkets, many of whom aren’t wearing gloves. The media isn’t reporting a shortage of such staff or of them filling the hospitals. 
So maybe having couriers deliver isn’t that bad. Not sure she’ll sanction more cars though.

I am really worried for my local comic store. When the shop (in an arcade in town) shut the owner was going to run it online and post out to his customers. Now the distributor has suspended deliveries and the publishers have gone on hiatus so there is no product to sell...

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So we make the couriers and postmen redundant rather than enact Risk reduction distancing?

ive not come into contact with any Royal Mail man or courier yet tescos is full of inconsiderate people brushing past each other?

id rather all food shopping be done through deliveries rather than all gathering in one shop

i even shipped something this week and instead of taking it to be shipped I selected DHL collection and just left it on the porch.

the military are supporting key logistics - i.e. delivery of PPE around the U.K. 

so I guess it depends what we are trying to do in this lockdown 

1. stop spread - are couriers spreading the virus more than people in supermarkets 

2. protect the vulnerable - stopping vulnerable people going out and this having medication and shopping delivered to them is key to that 

 

so I don’t think that making decisions on the behalf of the postmen is the right thing to do if by “protecting” them puts them out of work (along with many businesses around the U.K.)

listen to the govt and not social media and it’s many opinions

 

JJ

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@Problemchild, I think the media has its uses, perhaps not social media.

I think you missed my line ‘so  maybe having couriers deliver isn’t that bad.’

I regret putting my thoughts down here, it wasn’t with the intention to antagonise.

I don’t think me having less post is likely to have much impact on RM et al. Hopefully there will still be a need for their roles when this has past

Mrs BC, on the other hand, is likely to lose her job as cabin crew as a result of all this so I don’t take it lightly.

1. You are probably right, wish I could get a delivery or a click and collect but I have no choice but to run the gauntlet 

2. I’ve had the pleasure of contact with this these past two weeks. Thanks to all the charities and volunteers who are making this happen above the gov’t support for the shielded group. 

Stay safe, people and do stay home and protect the NHS.

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Not antagonised at all - sorry if you felt I was 

you make good points but there is a lot more than us at home saying we should protect 

 hope your wife had her company do the right thing. If the govt are letting the airlines go bust then that’s the start of economic ruin.

i have lots of friends in furlough and although my cleaner and my milkman are no longer coming, I’m still paying them because in a few months we all need these services to resume.

im fairly lucky that most of the family around me have jobs that can be done remotely - my sis has relocated her call centre to her staff homes and I’m able to work at home and remain productive.

its hard times for small businesses and their staff and I think supporting them is a good thing. 
 

amazon pantry is a good source of produce as are local farm shops 

stay safe and sorry if I came across haven’t handed - not my intention 

JJ

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I think ordering on line from independent shops/companies for me is doing your bit to keep the economy ticking over the likes of Amazon (that dodge paying their fair share of tax and the dodgy employment practices asked people to donate to pay for their employees sick pay ) will probably come out of this none the worse! I've personally never touched Amazon especially now I always go for the independent! What we all have to remember is after all this unbelievable times is WHO do we really need and who are the important people in our society? is it the likes of Richard branson, Tim Martin, Mike Ashley, Jeff Bezos I think definitely not! or is it the Nurse's and all the associated care workers, emergency services, teachers, posties, bin men, bus drivers in fact everyone that is keeping our countries going at this time! Just remember after this is all over who was it that actually saved our society? ( and it's not the narcissistic greedy millionaire's/billionaire's that I've listed above) I do apologise for the slight rant!

 

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21 minutes ago, Problemchild said:

Remember amazon is made up of millions of small independent sellers also 

JJ

Which Amazon (putting it very politely because I'll get wrong for very very bad language) put under enormous pressure.......nah Amazon is not for me and I've never felt worse off for it!

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I've been debating this very much lately.  The only good thing about this lockdown is I have had much more time for RC.  The problem is that I have a bunch of kits but not enough servos to complete them.  I buy everything I can from an excellent LHS and know he could really use the business in May when he is allowed to reopen.  For that reason I'm going to try to hold off any big purchases until he can get reopened.  I will order a few things elsewhere, but just to move projects forward for the most part.

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Can’t you call or email them and get them to pull an order together?

it would be remiss of model shops not to take orders by phone and work a way of getting them to the customer - like drop off or a collection station.

people need to think a bit differently or they will go under :(

JJ 

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50 minutes ago, moffman said:

Which Amazon (putting it very politely because I'll get wrong for very very bad language) put under enormous pressure.......nah Amazon is not for me and I've never felt worse off for it!

Under pressure how? Not arguing just under what business model? 

fulfilled by Amazon or Amazon market place?

I don’t read social media or watch investigative journalism so maybe I’m missing something but I don’t see what amazon have to gain from exploiting sellers that can just go to eBay and sell.

tbh there is naff all tamiya stuff on there so I mainly use pantry (which is mostly from Morrison’s)

JJ

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I’m still waiting on my nova fox from @Tamico Admin :( . I’m in the USA and the tracking has gone silent the last 5 days. It’s now been 2 weeks since order was placed 

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I've been thinking about @Saito2's question throughout the day, and the one data point I can offer is my wife spoke with our local mail carrier the other day, and he indicated our moderate-size post office has been doing well.  No one is sick even though they handle tens of thousands of letters and packages daily; everyone is still coming to work.  There are some prudently cautious new procedures at the front desk (red tape line, stand behind until allowed to approach, social distancing, gloves, etc.), but I was actually happy to hear they were ok so far.  Now, I live in a blended rural/suburban part of a small town, so our situation is by no means indicative of New York City.  I think if I lived in Raleigh or Charlotte I'd curtail my online buying even more than I have, and if they declare martial law or something else really serious you can be sure I won't be doing anything other than hanging out in the house.  But since our local post office is healthy, and people are mostly working from home and respecting stay-at-home orders, I don't have any problem ordering just some small items to keep projects going or a single limited-run kit.

I was searching on Google for any documented cases of USA truck drivers infected with COVID-19, but there's nothing particularly prominent showing up.  Either package carriers and truck drivers are hiding their illness, or the reporters haven't probed this topic much, or they're reasonable healthy and continuing to move goods all over the country.  There was an article in the New York times about a month ago, but nothing recent that I can find.

It's probably wise if each person assesses his own situation (how sick is your community, what is its demographics, are your carriers overloaded and sick too?) and buy online accordingly.

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1 hour ago, Problemchild said:

Under pressure how? Not arguing just under what business model? 

fulfilled by Amazon or Amazon market place?

I don’t read social media or watch investigative journalism so maybe I’m missing something but I don’t see what amazon have to gain from exploiting sellers that can just go to eBay and sell.

tbh there is naff all tamiya stuff on there so I mainly use pantry (which is mostly from Morrison’s)

JJ

ok, this is why I don't like Amazon and won't buy from them. For a seller they are great, Amazon will do a lot of the leg work for you. So for example you have 100 widgets to sell, you pre-package them and ship off to the nearest Amazon warehouse and when you get an order, they take care of fulling the order and sending it. You just have to make sure you keep Amazon stocked. Thats one of the reason they have such large warehouses, they are holding their own goods plus a great deal of their sellers. What it also means is that since the warehouses are so large, even with all their robots, they still employ a large number of people. So far, so good, and easy for small sellers too.

Now for the bit I don't like, they don't actually employ that many people, they are all contracted through a third company. In Australia, we tend to take our workers rights quite seriously, but this contract method sidesteps all that. Shifts are not guaranteed week to week (even though they are doing the same thing each week) and because they are contract, they miss out on holiday pay (Australia its 4 weeks a year for full time workers), sick leave (10 days a year), minimum wage, overtime etc. Now there have been lots of reports here about actual working conditions. They say workers have access to water, toilets etc, but  the workers are timed every second during the day. So they get and order and will be given a time limit to complete, then they get the next one and so on. If they fail too often to fill and order in the time given, they don't get sacked, they just don't get as many hours and there is nothing they can do. If they were employed, there are workers laws around having to notify of staff about issues, there is appeal system, etc. Now I understand the need for Amazon to turn a buck and to make sure the workers are efficient, but everything I have ever read about how they manage their workers just seems to be worst and nothing more than pure greed, just so we can get cheap stuff.

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just last night i tried to order some 1/12 foams from a UK vendor and they are not sending to the US.

just a side note what this epidemic is all about AREA51 and George Carlin one is spooky and the other funnier than all get out.

how about all the used masks and gloves on the ground and  in the parking lots first i noticed it at Lowe's a week ago, now it's becoming a norm? i am surrounded by Village Idiots!:lol:

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