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Juhunio

The lock-down hop-up Dark Impact

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11 hours ago, mtbkym01 said:

Fantastic build well done. I prefer the JPS over the Camel, I think the higher rear wing looks more proportional, but wouldn't say no to the Camel :D 

Thanks very much! I agree about the Camel wing. I do like the rake of the Avante body but the wing doesn't quite work for me. I probably will sort out an alternative wing for that body at some point!

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3 hours ago, mman2005 said:

@JuhunioForgot to ask, did you get the t bone racing bumpers from them directly? I noticed they are out of stock but hoping they get some in once everything is 'back to normal"

No, unfortunately not. I contacted them a few months back and they said that the DF03 parts are permanently out of stock. In the end I luckily tracked down a set on eBay, which will probably be your best bet

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1 minute ago, Juhunio said:

No, unfortunately not. I contacted them a few months back and they said that the DF03 parts are permanently out of stock. In the end I luckily tracked down a set on eBay, which will probably be your best bet

Thanks. Was that because they have stopped producing them or because they are popular??

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So I spent all afternoon adjusting the front and rear diffs, and the slipper clutch, pulling in various references from various posts through the history of Tamiyaclub!

I thought i had it right, rear diff nice and tight but not over tight, open-hand wheel spins feeling right, clutch slipping to turn front wheels when holding rear wheels and spur gear...

But when I gave it a quick run in the garden, it kind of spat and squeaked a bit like I'm squeezing the throttle on and off, and didn't really go anywhere. I managed to get a quick video, can anyone help? 

Is that the clutch too loose? If I tighten it any more, the front wheels won't turn when holding the rear wheels and spur gear. Is that an issue?

Or is it the diff?

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6 minutes ago, mman2005 said:

Thanks. Was that because they have stopped producing them or because they are popular??

Out of production I think, I got the impression they had been for some time

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It’s little hard to diagnose through my iPad speaker, but it does sound like a diff howl to me? A ball diff does need to be relatively tight to eliminate it slipping/howling. I would start by tightening the diff a bit and if that makes no difference, then tighten the slipper a little at a time 

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9 hours ago, mtbkym01 said:

It’s little hard to diagnose through my iPad speaker, but it does sound like a diff howl to me? A ball diff does need to be relatively tight to eliminate it slipping/howling. I would start by tightening the diff a bit and if that makes no difference, then tighten the slipper a little at a time 

Diff is tightened as far as it will go, then backed off 1/8 turn so don’t think it can go any tighter. Will try tightening the clutch a bit though 

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15 minutes ago, Juhunio said:

Diff is tightened as far as it will go, then backed off 1/8 turn so don’t think it can go any tighter. Will try tightening the clutch a bit though 

Ok cool, yeah must just be the slipper then, gradually tighten it until it accelerates nicely, then back it off very slightly and test it to get it just right

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1 hour ago, mtbkym01 said:

Ok cool, yeah must just be the slipper then, gradually tighten it until it accelerates nicely, then back it off very slightly and test it to get it just right

Will do, thanks!

FYI I just took the rear diff apart completely to double check I hadn't maybe left it too loose and knackered it on the first test run. Thankfully, it's immaculate, no flat spots or scoring, clean as a whistle. So I've reassembled it, tightened up as hard as possible, run it in the car for 5 minutes with one wheel locked and the diff screw didn't loosen at all. I'd say it's bedded in! Backed it off an 1/8 turn as seems to be the received wisdom, and will have a go at gradually tightening the slipper later on

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@Juhunio

Hi, recently joined the community after getting a lockdown treat Grasshopper re-release, which was the car I never had as a kid!  I've really got the bug to build something a bit more complex.  I've decided on buying a Dark Impact which should arrive this week and came across this thread this too whilst researching the various hop ups available to me.

The build looks awesome by the way, love the F1 theme, the body shape works really well with it.  As an avid fan too, I'm now wanting to do something similar, thinking maybe the Mansell Williams, but I'm way off that point yet!

Had a massive shock when I read about the soft alloy pinion which sounded like a nightmare to source, but luckily spoke to your man Neil and he has sent me one today 😁

Funnily enough with all this lockdown that's probably been the easiest part to find and buy!

Saw you said you'd posted some bits on eBay, did that all go or is there anything up for grabs still I can PayPal you for?  I'm currently in the planning stages and looking forward to picking my hop ups and trying to source before starting to build, looking like that's likely to be a lot longer off than I hoped.

Also wouldn't mind if you'd share your experience on sourcing hop ups. Where did you find was best to source, I've seen a few sites but wouldn't mind your input.

Cheers and sorry for bombarding you with a load of questions 👍

Tom

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12 hours ago, Mozzie said:

@Juhunio

Hi, recently joined the community after getting a lockdown treat Grasshopper re-release, which was the car I never had as a kid!  I've really got the bug to build something a bit more complex.  I've decided on buying a Dark Impact which should arrive this week and came across this thread this too whilst researching the various hop ups available to me.

The build looks awesome by the way, love the F1 theme, the body shape works really well with it.  As an avid fan too, I'm now wanting to do something similar, thinking maybe the Mansell Williams, but I'm way off that point yet!

Had a massive shock when I read about the soft alloy pinion which sounded like a nightmare to source, but luckily spoke to your man Neil and he has sent me one today 😁

Funnily enough with all this lockdown that's probably been the easiest part to find and buy!

Saw you said you'd posted some bits on eBay, did that all go or is there anything up for grabs still I can PayPal you for?  I'm currently in the planning stages and looking forward to picking my hop ups and trying to source before starting to build, looking like that's likely to be a lot longer off than I hoped.

Also wouldn't mind if you'd share your experience on sourcing hop ups. Where did you find was best to source, I've seen a few sites but wouldn't mind your input.

Cheers and sorry for bombarding you with a load of questions 👍

Tom

Hi Tom, thanks for the comments! I would say welcome to the hobby but I'm still a noob myself! I always wanted a Bigwig when I was a kid, but all my folks could afford was a Nikko Black Fox! So the Bigwig was the first kit I bought last year, then a Boomerang and now the DF03. I have a few more in the garage to keep me busy! It all gets quite addictive...

Yes, the Canon Williams FW14 was the iconic car of my youth, Mansell was my hero. I have a set of decals ready for a future build, maybe a Hotshot or TT02B, haven't decided yet!

I've dropped you a PM about the hop up stuff, hope it helps and good luck with your DF03 build. All the best!

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14 hours ago, Mozzie said:

@Juhunio

Hi, recently joined the community after getting a lockdown treat Grasshopper re-release, which was the car I never had as a kid!  I've really got the bug to build something a bit more complex.  I've decided on buying a Dark Impact which should arrive this week and came across this thread this too whilst researching the various hop ups available to me.

The build looks awesome by the way, love the F1 theme, the body shape works really well with it.  As an avid fan too, I'm now wanting to do something similar, thinking maybe the Mansell Williams, but I'm way off that point yet!

Had a massive shock when I read about the soft alloy pinion which sounded like a nightmare to source, but luckily spoke to your man Neil and he has sent me one today 😁

Funnily enough with all this lockdown that's probably been the easiest part to find and buy!

Saw you said you'd posted some bits on eBay, did that all go or is there anything up for grabs still I can PayPal you for?  I'm currently in the planning stages and looking forward to picking my hop ups and trying to source before starting to build, looking like that's likely to be a lot longer off than I hoped.

Also wouldn't mind if you'd share your experience on sourcing hop ups. Where did you find was best to source, I've seen a few sites but wouldn't mind your input.

Cheers and sorry for bombarding you with a load of questions 👍

Tom

Welcome Tom. The hunt for parts is addictive. You've done well to get that part. I've chased Neil up again as I haven't heard anything from him. Fingers crossed. 

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Thanks for the welcome @mman2005 and @Juhunio for your PM, has been really useful.

It certainly is addictive, think I've dropped over 100 quid this afternoon (supposed to be working) on various bits and can only see that getting worse! 🙂

Biggest thing I think I'm going to struggle with is the bumpers. I emailed t-bone to see if they are actually still making as they are showing out of stock, has anyone come across an alternative by any chance?

Also I still need suspension towers, would the DF03-RA towers work or is the geometry all wrong, excuse the amateur question here!

I have most of the important bits on order or in my possession already and those bits can come after I guess.

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1 minute ago, Mozzie said:

Thanks for the welcome @mman2005 and @Juhunio for your PM, has been really useful.

It certainly is addictive, think I've dropped over 100 quid this afternoon (supposed to be working) on various bits and can only see that getting worse! 🙂

Biggest thing I think I'm going to struggle with is the bumpers. I emailed t-bone to see if they are actually still making as they are showing out of stock, has anyone come across an alternative by any chance?

Also I still need suspension towers, would the DF03-RA towers work or is the geometry all wrong, excuse the amateur question here!

I have most of the important bits on order or in my possession already and those bits can come after I guess.

Plenty of useful info on here for DF03 owners. Hopefully t-bone keep making them as I still think there is a strong market for what they make. The one thing I did notice with my DI is that it take bit of a hammering underneath towards the front. Found some of the screws getting scuffed up.

I do find that my old thunder dragon is better for bashing on any surface but love the handling of the dark impact. @Juhuniohas now made me want to get some turnbuckles now as I think I could make good use of them on this type of car. I would love the carbon shock towers but if the car tumbles, I was worried about scuffing them up :rolleyes:

Wish I had kept my DF03 alloy shocks now. Love the look of them

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38 minutes ago, Mozzie said:

Thanks for the welcome @mman2005 and @Juhunio for your PM, has been really useful.

It certainly is addictive, think I've dropped over 100 quid this afternoon (supposed to be working) on various bits and can only see that getting worse! 🙂

Biggest thing I think I'm going to struggle with is the bumpers. I emailed t-bone to see if they are actually still making as they are showing out of stock, has anyone come across an alternative by any chance?

Also I still need suspension towers, would the DF03-RA towers work or is the geometry all wrong, excuse the amateur question here!

I have most of the important bits on order or in my possession already and those bits can come after I guess.

I did get a reply from T-Bone a couple of months back to say that the DF03 bumpers are discontinued unfortunately. I fluked mine on eBay just before Christmas 

I’m pretty sure the DF03ra carbon damper towers don’t work, they’re for the rally version of the chassis so aren’t long enough for the buggy unfortunately 

keep searching! 

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T-bone just came back to me with this, feels like it could be a stock response and he's not looked into it properly, but promising that it might be available at some point.

On Thu, 7 May 2020, 20:43 Sales, <sales@tboneracing.net> wrote:
Hello Tom,
We have just changed from a made to order shipping system to an inventory shipping system.
We do not have a full array of stock yet, but we are working on it! You can go to the listing on our website of the part you are interested in and put in your email to be notified when we have it in stock. This will also place it higher up in the production priority list.
Thank-you!
-Jacob, TBR Sales
I've got pretty much everything sorted on order now appear from the suspension towers

I've got pretty much everything I want to add to it on order now, apart from suspension towers & bumpers. I think I'll make a start without those anyway, as reasonably straightforward to add at a later date. Just the long wait for everything to be posted to me now, can't wait to get started! 🙂

Also going to see about putting the Dark Impact stock 540 in my Grasshopper so the Mrs has something to use too!

 
 
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2 hours ago, Mozzie said:

T-bone just came back to me with this, feels like it could be a stock response and he's not looked into it properly, but promising that it might be available at some point.

On Thu, 7 May 2020, 20:43 Sales, <sales@tboneracing.net> wrote:
Hello Tom,
We have just changed from a made to order shipping system to an inventory shipping system.
We do not have a full array of stock yet, but we are working on it! You can go to the listing on our website of the part you are interested in and put in your email to be notified when we have it in stock. This will also place it higher up in the production priority list.
Thank-you!
-Jacob, TBR Sales
I've got pretty much everything sorted on order now appear from the suspension towers

I've got pretty much everything I want to add to it on order now, apart from suspension towers & bumpers. I think I'll make a start without those anyway, as reasonably straightforward to add at a later date. Just the long wait for everything to be posted to me now, can't wait to get started! 🙂

Also going to see about putting the Dark Impact stock 540 in my Grasshopper so the Mrs has something to use too!

 
 

Sounds promising 👌 

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On 5/6/2020 at 8:40 AM, mtbkym01 said:

Ok cool, yeah must just be the slipper then, gradually tighten it until it accelerates nicely, then back it off very slightly and test it to get it just right

Spent most of Thursday afternoon tweaking the slipper clutch settings, then tightening the diff again after it slipped again (!), and in the end did get it just right. I've run three packs through it now, gradually increasing the level of power attack, and it is sounding great and the diff is holding tight. Very pleased with it, thanks for your support :)

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For others maybe reading this ahead of their own DF03 builds, I found the following references on diff / slipper settings really useful. There are so many different opinions and references out there, others may think differently and that there are better methods, but after reading post after post, these are the ones that worked for me:

Running in the diff, and adjusting as you go:

When I first built the rear diff, I got it tight enough that when I locked both outdrives (eg with screwdrivers or allen keys) I couldn't turn the diff gear at all.

Then, once the car was built and the wheels were on, I fine tuned the adjustments. I tried to get it to a point where if I span a rear wheel with the palm of my hand, it would turn a maximum of about 1/2 turn. Then I ran it in and kept adjusting.

This is a process of time and patience, an hour or so on the bench tightening the diff, running the diff, tightening the diff, running it again until you get to a point where it's nice and tight and hasn't loosened up while running in.

This video gives you a good idea of how to go about it. As does this one. On the DF03 you just need to take the rhs rear wheel off (same side as the slipper), unhook the upper link at the knuckle, pull the drive shaft out of the cup and remove the diff sponges. You can then access the diff cap screw with your allen key and make the adjustments as you go.

DO NOT use their method of checking the slipper!!! That only works on 2WD cars, the 4WD DF03 doesn't like it! It will make a very bad noise. Let this idiot help you avoid that mistake :rolleyes:

Tightening up the slipper just right

You want the slipper set looser than the diff so it slips first, but not so loose that the car doesn't move! I found that the 'standard position' shown in the slipper instructions was a bit too tight, so ended up with the lock nut tightened less.

This advice was posted by @94eg! 12 years ago!! But it made sense to me and seems to have worked out:

To check that the diff is tighter than the slipper is a little tricky on 4WD:

- Hold one rear tire steady with one hand (front tires in the air)

- Hold the spur steady with a second hand (so it cannot spin)

- Now with your third hand (:)) spin the other rear tire

Result A: The front tires & slipper-adjustment nut turns when you spin the tire. This means your slipper is slipping, and all is right with the world...

Result B: The front tires & slipper-adjustment nut does not spin when you spin the tire. This means the diff is slipping instead of the slipper, and you MUST tighten your rear diff...

BTW: I find it easiest to hold the first tire steady between my legs while sitting down. This frees up your other two hand to hold the spur, and turn the opposite wheel...

 

Personally, I think you are looking more to be able to 'turn' the rear wheel so the front wheels 'turn', rather than 'spin'. I think everything would have to be way too loose for it to 'spin'

Like I said at the start, there is loads of content on this out there, but these are the steps I ended up following and the car seems to be running really well for me.

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10 minutes ago, Juhunio said:

Spent most of Thursday afternoon tweaking the slipper clutch settings, then tightening the diff again after it slipped again (!), and in the end did get it just right. I've run three packs through it now, gradually increasing the level of power attack, and it is sounding great and the diff is holding tight. Very pleased with it, thanks for your support :)

Excellent result

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A few minor adjustments today...

When I ran it last week it quickly became obvious that the springs that came with the Xtraspeed shocks were way too soft, so switched to the kit supplied springs which are firmer and feel much better

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Then went through and added some shims and washers to take out some of the obvious slop.

0.5mm worth of shims between the e-clip and the bearing on the slipper shaft, and a white diff sponge in the prop shaft cup joint, removed all the travel in those areas

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And then added a 3mm washer (MC4) to each side of the suspension brace to reduce the movement of the lower arms on the shafts

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In hindsight, it would have been more elegant to have put the washer behind the suspension brace rather in front of it. I'll probably do it again once I've built up the will to do battle with those evil e-clips again. The Tamiya tool is amazing at getting them on, but they are hateful things to get off

Man vs e-clip Exhibit A. 1-0 to the e-clip

IMG_5382.thumb.jpeg.74ca4038fa87f46befa38da33cc1a655.jpeg

Impossible to remove, easy to lose. Man I hate those things.

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I had a similar injury removing an E-clip once with a very tiny flat-bladed screwdriver. At first I didn't realise I'd done it, but it smarted. Then I bled everywhere from a tiny hole in my finger!!

Looking great though. Does there come a point where there is an advantage to having some give in the parts? As in, does it not increase friction if things are shimmed tight like that? 

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1 hour ago, ChrisRx718 said:

I had a similar injury removing an E-clip once with a very tiny flat-bladed screwdriver. At first I didn't realise I'd done it, but it smarted. Then I bled everywhere from a tiny hole in my finger!!

you got it in one! :wacko:

1 hour ago, ChrisRx718 said:

Looking great though. Does there come a point where there is an advantage to having some give in the parts? As in, does it not increase friction if things are shimmed tight like that? 

yeah I wonder about that too. Based on the historic issues with the gearbox, and the amount of effort to source / mod the right parts to get it as solid as possible, I'm happy enough to get that main gear completely tight

I'm inclined to agree with you about the prop shaft, there is no give whatsoever in it now where a wee bit might do no harm. I'll probably go back in and cut that diff sponge in half

As for the front arms / shafts, there's still some play there, I just took the worst of it out. Longitudinally it's fairly tight, but there's some lateral play just in how the arms fit over the shafts, which I don't think I could do anything about if I wanted to!

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I love a driver figure, and with this DF03 being a Senna tribute I really wanted to get one in there. But as we know, the DF03 is unbelievably tight under the shell

I picked up an Avante driver (9225125) from Tonystamiyaparts, figuring it might have an outside chance of fitting under the Avante II shell?

Started with a test fit and straight away it needed a lot of trimming. And then needed quite a bit more along the way. Everything circled in red ended up going

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Turns out the main challenge with the fit isn't the drive shaft, it's the steering rod. The adjuster at the servo end kept catching the area around his right shoulder, so continuous trimming eventually ended up like this

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Obviously he's now been painted! As there is no Camel Yellow X paint pot I ended up mixing X6 orange with XF3 flat yellow at about 70/30 to get a close enough match. Then took plenty of time adding a little bit of detail to the cockpit. Shame the Avante driver doesn't have a full wheel, but hey ho

IMG_5440.thumb.jpeg.7caf15c69ea8aa8d37c39ec521716d8f.jpeg

I managed to find a set of 1/10 scale stickers for Senna's Lotus race suits (for both JPS and Camel, funnily enough!), which were really good quality. I spent ages trying to peel the backing off the first one, it just wouldn't come off, to the point I was about to fire off a complaining email! Then noticed on the backing sheet that what I had were called decals, not stickers.

Decals....that brought back a memory of childhood Airfix kits, horrible little water floaty things. Surely not? Surely yes! 

Having worked that out, and got a little saucer of water, they all went on pretty well in the end. 

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My detail painting is scruffy and leaves a lot of room for improvement, but compared to how terrible I was at it when I last did any model making 35 years ago, I'm happy with my progress!!

Even with all the trimming, to get the helmet to fit under the canopy he needed to be anchored further back in the shell, meaning the front of the cockpit didn't sit square with the end of the window, it was about 25mm further back. So I ended up masking the shell off and spraying some of the window black, to fill the gap and help it blend in. Might but a black pinstripe along the window edge to tidy it up a bit

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Which takes us to fitting. I used Tamiya double sided tape cut to shape down each side, then added a bit of Gorilla tape as an extra fix

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Also needed to slightly lift the right hand side of the shell. It naturally sits lower than the left hand side as the motor and battery cables lift that side slightly. So I put a strip of velcro along the top right hand side of the chassis to "fix" that side of the shell a bit higher and create a bit more clearance between the driver and the steering rod adjuster 

IMG_5473.jpeg.02e8a8927dcbd53493197356cd78495a.jpeg

And that's it. He's in! The shell sits nice and flat on the chassis, and the steering works cleanly and without obstruction. Not sure how well it will work in the real world, it probably won't take too much shell flex for the steering rod to start knocking, but we'll cross that bridge if we come to it

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Now just waiting for the bank holiday hurricane to die down so I can take it out for a blast!

IMG_5475.jpeg

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