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Bash

Knockoff High-Lift

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HG model, the same company that made the Bruiser knockoff now has knocked off the High-Lift. It has the 3-speed and locking diffs. Here is a link if you are interested in looking at this atrocity https://www.banggood.com/HG-P417-1-or-10-2_4G-4WD-RC-Car-EP-Pickup-Vehicles-Rock-Crawler-Truck-without-Battery-Charger-Model-p-1660259.html?p=6S2910081756201209IA&custlinkid=856948&ID=530026&cur_warehouse=CN  

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Ugh.  There is a lot I want to say but I'll leave it at this: another blatant knock-off and I hope they don't sell a single one.

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1 hour ago, Bash said:

HG model, the same company that made the Bruiser knockoff now has knocked off the High-Lift. It has the 3-speed and locking diffs. Here is a link if you are interested in looking at this atrocity https://www.banggood.com/HG-P417-1-or-10-2_4G-4WD-RC-Car-EP-Pickup-Vehicles-Rock-Crawler-Truck-without-Battery-Charger-Model-p-1660259.html?p=6S2910081756201209IA&custlinkid=856948&ID=530026&cur_warehouse=CN  

don't support such pirate copy

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Mmm bummer.  How much are the real kits going for these days?

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Was going through the list at the bottom and there was a hard body 1:10 Willys Jeep with proper scale wheels and tyres

https://m.banggood.com/JJRC-Q65-110-Jedi-Proportional-Control-Crawler-Military-Truck-RC-Car-With-Canopy-LED-Light-p-1410857.html?rmmds=detail-bottom-alsolike

That actually looks really nice especially with a cloth roof. With a bit of weathering it could be improved but for £35!!!

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7 hours ago, Shodog said:

Mmm bummer.  How much are the real kits going for these days?

Looks like about 350-400 

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4 hours ago, Superluminal said:

Was going through the list at the bottom and there was a hard body 1:10 Willys Jeep with proper scale wheels and tyres

https://m.banggood.com/JJRC-Q65-110-Jedi-Proportional-Control-Crawler-Military-Truck-RC-Car-With-Canopy-LED-Light-p-1410857.html?rmmds=detail-bottom-alsolike

That actually looks really nice especially with a cloth roof. With a bit of weathering it could be improved but for £35!!!

That jeep is actually much closer to 1/16 scale being based on the WPL family of vehicles. I'm guessing that since the real Willys jeep is so small that it is close to 10th scale with that chassis. 

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1 hour ago, Bash said:

That jeep is actually much closer to 1/16 scale being based on the WPL family of vehicles. I'm guessing that since the real Willys jeep is so small that it is close to 10th scale with that chassis. 

I checked the dimensions against the dimensions of the real one some time ago, and it is in fact very close to 1/10 scale. I've been tempted to get one and put the body on a proper chassis. 

As for the Hilux Hi-Lift and Bruiser clones, anyone buying one is indirectly telling Tamiya to not develop new products. Especially  the ones that take a lot of ambition, effort and cost to develop.  So, anyone who doesn't want any new, nice and complex models from Tamiya, should definitely buy the clones. But don't whine if there is eventually no new products to clone anymore, because Tamiya have instead chosen to endlessly recycle combinations of existing bodies and chassis types.

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I don’t think it makes much difference. Lego aficionados have been through this with Lepin. But you have to remember that most people who buy this (or lepin lego copies of big kits) wouldn’t buy the original anyway due to high cost. They’re only buying this version because it is cheap. So I don’t see it as a lost sale to tamiya.

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I have a Bruiser clone and have written about it on here. It is total junk, the quality is terrible. Most of the screws cross threaded and made of cheese.

Body is not bad though.

 

I will get back to rebuilding it soon but it will not have the gearbox because that was trashed on delivery.

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It even comes with lots of accessories and looks like the doors open.

There goes the number one imitators/counterfeiters/fakers in the world. They'd do everything to put good companies down and try to take over.

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29 minutes ago, CoolHands said:

I don’t think it makes much difference. Lego aficionados have been through this with Lepin. But you have to remember that most people who buy this (or lepin lego copies of big kits) wouldn’t buy the original anyway due to high cost. They’re only buying this version because it is cheap. So I don’t see it as a lost sale to tamiya.

I kinda feel the same way. The High-Lift is essentially dead in the scale world (except for the bodies) and I cannot imagine it selling very well considering there are many far more capable and good-looking trail trucks in the same price bracket (Eg RC4WD TF2, Traxxas TRX4, Axial SCX10 III, Element enduro, ETC) 

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I don`t think it will make as much sense to get one as with the bruiser. I got my Tamiya High-Lift for € 300,- from a shop not private seller. And the usually do not cost more than 400,-

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Quite a range of views as I expected for this forum.  I'll add my comments as a Tamiya fan of 40 years...

I have always liked models that displayed a high degree of scale realism.  Back in the 1980's, Tamiya was one of the pioneers of this concept.  It developed the sophisticated 3-speed trucks that were often the pinnacle of RC trucks but simply unaffordable for many.  After a great number of years I bought my own 3-speed in the form of a Toyota High Lift.  That was many years ago now and I have been regularly searching the Tamiya new release lists hoping for a newly developed 3-speed truck.  But no luck, all I seem to find is re-re this, re-re that.  I would have bought a new Tamiya 3-speed long ago but I'm still waiting for something to be released...

Then along comes HengGuan with their clone version of the High Lift.  Initially I just wouldn't ever consider a Chinese clone because we all have that stereotypical view that the quality will be rubbish.  However, as time went by I read reviews on the P407 Bruiser clone and I began to get just a little intrigued.  The brand new HG-P417 was not my first choice for a new truck but my location during quarantine conditions meant that it was almost impossible to get shipments from UK, Europe or USA.  Then there was the price.  I'm not one to get easily seduced by a low price but it is hard to ignore considering the current Modelsport price for a Hilux High Lift is 439 GBP for the kit alone.  By the time you have added transmitter, receiver, servos, etc, you'll be into the 500+ GBP range.  The HG RTR price is half that.  So I decided to take a bit of a gamble and buy one to find out for myself if it is any good.  Mentally I was prepared for poor quality materials, bad build quality and something that close-up looked far worse than the pictures described.  So far I have been impressed by almost everything I have seen.  Time will tell whether the HG will be robust and durable and for the price I expect the worst.  But it has surprised me in a positive way so far and I can afford to make upgrades if and when parts fail.  It looks like it will be a great project truck and I look forward to seeing how it performs over the coming months and years.

You can see the one I bought here: 

 

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Looks really good 

any IP or copywrite issues can be taken up with legal teams 

I miss lepin 

JJ

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I've had my HG-P417 since June and have now had the chance to look at it and test it properly.  Yes, there were a few quality issues with the build and some of the components but these were minor.  Apart from the electrical components which are HG sourced parts, the rest of the truck is very similar to the Tamiya product.  If you like the Tamiya High Lift then you will probably like this too.  Everything that is good or bad about the Tamiya truck is replicated on this truck but at a significantly lower price.  Don't buy one and expect it to compete with other more modern crawlers from Axial, Traxxas, etc but buy one because you like the scale body and want a reasonably priced off-road truck.  In the video below you can see the special features of this truck such as the multi-mode 4WS system and you'll also see how it performs on rocky mountain tracks.

 

 

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On 4/8/2020 at 2:21 AM, Superluminal said:

Was going through the list at the bottom and there was a hard body 1:10 Willys Jeep with proper scale wheels and tyres

https://m.banggood.com/JJRC-Q65-110-Jedi-Proportional-Control-Crawler-Military-Truck-RC-Car-With-Canopy-LED-Light-p-1410857.html?rmmds=detail-bottom-alsolike

That actually looks really nice especially with a cloth roof. With a bit of weathering it could be improved but for £35!!!

$48 dollars? what is that?

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On 4/8/2020 at 9:30 AM, Mokei Kagaku said:

I checked the dimensions against the dimensions of the real one some time ago, and it is in fact very close to 1/10 scale. I've been tempted to get one and put the body on a proper chassis. 

As for the Hilux Hi-Lift and Bruiser clones, anyone buying one is indirectly telling Tamiya to not develop new products. Especially  the ones that take a lot of ambition, effort and cost to develop.  So, anyone who doesn't want any new, nice and complex models from Tamiya, should definitely buy the clones. But don't whine if there is eventually no new products to clone anymore, because Tamiya have instead chosen to endlessly recycle combinations of existing bodies and chassis types.

is it telling tamiya to not develop or is it telling tamiya that they cant keep demanding way high prices to keep producing the same thing? just saying the "rip off" models seem to be fair quaility and way more affordable. 500 usd for a bruiser or 200 something for a clone? hilux same thing. i wont buy a 500 hi lift. but, i would consider a less expensive clone. i have many tamiya rc products som im not bashing tamiya. just saying they dont always make sence with pricing

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52 minutes ago, Finnsllc said:

 500 usd for a bruiser or 200 something for a clone?

It was dropped to $500 because of the clone. It was $1000 before.

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2 hours ago, Biz73 said:

It was dropped to $500 because of the clone. It was $1000 before.

I remember that happening when Tamiya re-issued Bruiser too.  

 

Tamiya cars are made in China or Singapore, I think?  The clones cost $267 delivered.  Let's assume that shipping costs $40.  The seller takes measly $30.  For the factory to make money, they'd also have to make $30.  Which might mean that the cost to make one would be $170.  

Let's give Tamiya $100 profit.  Sellers like AMain take $100 profit.  Plus $30 shipping to Amain's warehouse.  Another $30 to deliver to my home.  So... That means we should be able to get one for about $430 even after giving $100 each to Tamiya and Amain.  But today's price is $930.  That means Tamiya + Amain take $700 profit on re-made Bruiser from 1985.  (No, I'm sorry, you save $30. So it's $670 profit) 

I'm all for being a loyal customer and all that, but $900 for a 35 year old design isn't really appealing. (neither is that HG model)

Since there are ebay sellers willing to sell for $450, that means some sellers are just price-gousing (not Tamiya).  

IrH7gOw.jpg

 

I have heard of "technology transfer" agreements in China.  I don't know if it's still true or not. But the Chinese government would lease the land basically free. By their law, it has to be a joint operation. Chinese factory owners might have to pay some cost of building a factory.  But the operation would be tax-free for some time.  Instead, at the end of the period, foreign companies like Tamiya would leave everything in China.  So the Chinese can produce the same stuff later. Sometimes for Chinese domestic purposes only, sometimes for foreign exports as well.  This was the reason why China could catch up to the world from the 90's.  

During the past 10 years, however, Chinese government became bold.  They would falsely claim that foreign companies are spying on China.  They would raid tech companies, and simply take the secret technology.  Apple moved some production of iphones to India now.  Why not?  Labor is cheaper in India.  Apple can own factories, tax is low.  Probably Indian government is nicer than the Chinese communist party.   

Do I know if HG clone was the "technology transfer?" Or a blatant copyright infringement?  I don't know.  I am not a fan of the Chinese way of doing things these days. They sentenced an Aussie to death, killed several Indian soldiers at the border, clashing with Philippines, Vietnam, Japan, Taiwan, US, England, Canada, basically with everybody. But that's political stuff.  For the HG clone, I'm on the fence. This could be a blatant copy, or it could be that Tamiya had some kind of agreement like cost-sharing on the factory + tax free operations. 

Since there isn't enough information to make the informed decision.....  the decision is up to each of us.  

 

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