Recommend a Brushless Set-up for Re-release Kits

[Legacy 8]

Greetings from Quarantine-

I've read a lot on here regarding this topic and find myself pulled in a ton of directions. I'm hoping to get some clear advice...

My ask: I'd like to find an AVAILABLE set-up for turning some re-release kits in to brushless.

Requirements:

-must work with comical buggies (grasshopper, avante, frog), re-release buggies (Tamiya and Kyosho), re-release kits like the Monster Beetle/lunchbox, cars with Tamiya TT02 chassis.

-Must fit, be compatible and not tear apart the standard parts/gearbox.

-work with Futaba tx/rx (specifically R2004GF

Needed Advice: (looking for good, but don't need the most expensive for all these, just something that will perform well enough)

1. What ESC should I get?  It seems that many of these kits come with a brushless capable ESC but not all do so I'll need to pick some up.

2. What brushless motor would you recommend for simple backyard or street bashing? Want some good speed and torque.

3. What LiPo battery would you recommend.  Want something that will fit across models whether it be a re re buggy,  re re MB or comical buggies.  Also, do you recommend something 2s or 3s?

4. Do I need some connectors to connect the LiPo battery to Tamiya?

5.  Anything else I need to convert these to brushless?

Ideally, if this can all be sourced from one spot, amazon, amain, tower hobbies, horizon, etc. That would be great.

 

I hope I'm not asking for too much help, thanks in advance!

[CoolHands 816]

edit I presume in the states as you mention amain etc

[Legacy 8]

6 minutes ago, CoolHands said:

edit I presume in the states as you mention amain etc

Yes, thanks!

[Problemchild 2149]

Brushless + LiPo = gear box destructions

you may have already read but....

I buy 540 sized goolRC combos (ie ESC and motor)

they are £30 for the pair and work well

ok they are poor vs some set ups that are totally tuneable but as plug and play for hobby drivers they are great.

i pair with Floureon stick 3s LiPo that I also use in my drones but you need to check dimensions as the battery bay on the comicals are restricted 

bearings def

metal gears if available  Or just a spare set of spare plastic ones

the comical isn’t really suited for LiPo and brushless though - this is a TT02b with that combo 

 

a comical will be undriveable 

just get a sport tuned 

 

JJ

[Bash 356]

4 minutes ago, Legacy said:

1. What ESC should I get?  It seems that many of these kits come with a brushless capable ESC but not all do so I'll need to pick some up.

Kits that come with the TBLE-02s will be fine with that ESC on brushless. Hobbywing 10bl120 and XR10 justock are great options as well

4 minutes ago, Legacy said:

2. What brushless motor would you recommend for simple backyard or street bashing? Want some good speed and torque.

I'd go with a motor in the 13.5-17.5 turn range. Any brand should be fine since you are not racing

4 minutes ago, Legacy said:

3. What LiPo battery would you recommend.  Want something that will fit across models whether it be a re re buggy,  re re MB or comical buggies.  Also, do you recommend something 2s or 3s?

2s is plenty for all of the listed models. Make sure you get one with a rounded case such as this one from gens ace.

4 minutes ago, Legacy said:

4. Anything else I need to convert these to brushless?

Ideally, if this can all be sourced from one spot, amazon, amain, tower hobbies, horizon, etc. That would be great.

That will vary by model. The only car that you listed that should need an upgrade is the monster beetle with a ball diff from MIP. 

[dannymulder 766]

For the esc I would go with hobbywing, good esc not to expensive and nice tuning options and very reliable never had one go wrong.

The cheaper esc is a bit of a gamble some work, and some are junk, I had some cheap ones but I do not buy them any more some are toast and some of them are just not as  good  the hobbywing ones.

The tamiya  tble esc can only be used with sensored motors, and have no lipo cut off, you can use a lipo alarm If you want to use them, and they can be a pain to setup.

Not a big fan of sensored motors for bashing most of them have a open can design so all the dirt and stuff can get in them, I run only sensorless closed can motors in my bashers but most of the time I run on the beach.

my sensorless setups are just as good as a sensored, never noticed any difference between them, I can drive real slow with a sensorless motors without cogging as long as you use good motors and esc.

 

[Turbotom 163]

Hobbywing xr10pro 5.5t brushless........ wow that will go some! I've tried it in my thunder dragon and I must say it was great fun!

[Legacy 8]

5 hours ago, Turbotom said:

Hobbywing xr10pro 5.5t brushless........ wow that will go some! I've tried it in my thunder dragon and I must say it was great fun!

Does that low of a turn motor risk the gears even more? 

[Wooders28 4722]

57 minutes ago, Legacy said:

Does that low of a turn motor risk the gears even more? 

The only tamiya I've had any gearbox issues with, was a frog, (orv chassis) so, monster beetle etc, share the same gearbox, not sure how far I'd push a stock re release one either.

You tend to find ,you have more of an issue with keeping the front end on the ground, than anything else, so you really need to be gentle on the throttle, and/or start needing to turn the power down on the transmitter or esc.

You need to decide what you want from it, the faster you go, the chances are you'll break parts more, not gearbox, but, if you clip a kerb with a 540 silver can, you might bend a steering rod,  but if you're running a low turn/high kv motor, the chances are, the same incident,  you'd be needing wishbones and hubs.

The ,Goolrc , are the best, bang for buck, but I quite like the, Skyrc stuff, marginally more expensive, but the v2 esc is smaller and the (9t) motors have cooling fins (they're smaller motors internally, less torque, but still do the job), so help to keep cool, look for a 60a esc, 540 size motor, with a 3.175 (3.2)mm shaft.

I've gone with the, Dean (T plug) battery connections  mainly as all my first lipos came with them, so which ever, just not the tamiya plug!!

If you go for a 3s compatable esc, if you get bored ,fancy a bit more performance, get a 3s lipo later on, but I'd go for a 2s hardcase to start with (I don't think my stick packs are available anymore!?!) 

Bearings are no brainer, and go for a hardened pinion, the stock aluminuim ones wear faily quick, and send a nice aluminium grinding paste around the gears.

[Legacy 8]

9 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

The only tamiya I've had any gearbox issues with, was a frog, (orv chassis) so, monster beetle etc, share the same gearbox, not sure how far I'd push a stock re release one either.

You tend to find ,you have more of an issue with keeping the front end on the ground, than anything else, so you really need to be gentle on the throttle, and/or start needing to turn the power down on the transmitter or esc.

You need to decide what you want from it, the faster you go, the chances are you'll break parts more, not gearbox, but, if you clip a kerb with a 540 silver can, you might bend a steering rod,  but if you're running a low turn/high kv motor, the chances are, the same incident,  you'd be needing wishbones and hubs.

The ,Goolrc , are the best, bang for buck, but I quite like the, Skyrc stuff, marginally more expensive, but the v2 esc is smaller and the (9t) motors have cooling fins (they're smaller motors internally, less torque, but still do the job), so help to keep cool, look for a 60a esc, 540 size motor, with a 3.175 (3.2)mm shaft.

I've gone with the, Dean (T plug) battery connections  mainly as all my first lipos came with them, so which ever, just not the tamiya plug!!

If you go for a 3s compatable esc, if you get bored ,fancy a bit more performance, get a 3s lipo later on, but I'd go for a 2s hardcase to start with (I don't think my stick packs are available anymore!?!) 

Bearings are no brainer, and go for a hardened pinion, the stock aluminuim ones wear faily quick, and send a nice aluminium grinding paste around the gears.

Thanks! So if I stick with the esc (tble-02s) that came with the kits I'll just get a connector for between the deans battery plug and the Tamiya ESC? 

[Wooders28 4722]

2 hours ago, Legacy said:

Thanks! So if I stick with the esc (tble-02s) that came with the kits I'll just get a connector for between the deans battery plug and the Tamiya ESC? 

I'm not a fan of the tamiya esc's, any kits I get with them in, I sell them on.

If you're running lipo, the ESC doesn't have the Lipo low volt cut off. (Although ,there are ways of breaking them open and altering them so they do, or, you can get an alarm to plug into the balance lead) 

Tamiya plugs aren't the best, used to burn them up with Nicads. 

Imo, you're better running a 1060 esc if you're running a brushed motor, or a dedicated brushless esc, if you're running brushless.

[Legacy 8]

I'm looking at the Hobbywing 10BL120 esc now.  It doesn't appear to have a connector for a battery (after watching a video review).  Am I missing something? And if so, can you tell me the connector type so I can buy something to match up with a deans if the battery I get has that type?  Would I have to do any soldering with this type of ESC?

Also, does it offer reverse as well?  Will need that as this will be for some fun bashing.

[CoolHands 816]

Looks like that’s forward and brake only

how about Hobbywing QUICRUN 10BL60 for brushless or Hobbywing QUICRUN 1060 for brushed (do you know what type of motor you’re going to use this with?) as they are both forward & reverse

if just going to replace standard kit esc (and keeping their normal brushed motors) then just get the 1060

[Legacy 8]

1 minute ago, CoolHands said:

Looks like that’s forward and brake only

how about Hobbywing QUICRUN 10BL60 for brushless or Hobbywing QUICRUN 1060 for brushed (do you know what type of motor you’re going to use this with?) as they are both forward & reverse

if just going to replace standard kit esc with their normal brushed motors then just get the 1060

I'm going to get a 13.5 turned 540 sized brushless motor.  In that case, which of the 2 hobbywings esc's you mentioned is best?  They both have reverse?

[CoolHands 816]

They’re both the same but one is brushless. Both have forward and reverse. the 10bl60 can run 13.5t as long as the motor is sensored.
 

if you buy a sensorless motor (or you are not yet sure which motor you will get) buy Hobbywing QUICRUN WP-10BL60 BL ESC which can run with either sensored or sensorless, and still has forward and reverse.

[Legacy 8]

https://www.hobbywingdirect.com/products/quicrun-3650-sensored-2-pole-brushless-motor?variant=753593181

How does this motor look in the 13.5 version?  Looking for good speed and torque.

[CoolHands 816]

I’m sure it would be excellent with the QUICRUN 10BL60 sensored esc (make sure you get the sensored version ESC to use with that motor)

I’ve had a look so for that sensored motor you would need this esc 

https://www.hobbywingdirect.com/products/quicrun-10-sensored?variant=710246737
but 1 problem is you need to change the programme from the default setting to get reverse (default is forward and brake only). So you would also need https://www.hobbywingdirect.com/products/led-pc2c?variant=172030922 but they are cheap at $9

also(!) you would need to solder all wires to that esc which may not be great if you are trying to avoid that.

 

if you really want to avoid soldering the wires you could use the other brushless esc I mentioned earlier that will run with that motor, but only in brushless mode. 
https://www.hobbywingdirect.com/products/quicrun-wp-10bl60?variant=655109969

so really you have to decide if you are willing to solder or not. If you are get a big soldering iron 100watt as it makes it easier.

[Problemchild 2149]

So much money

JJ

 

[Big Jon 684]

The Justock combos from Hobbywing are great. About $100 for the combo, drives like a racing system because it is. You get a sealed can motor from 10.5-up, and a nice small speedo that fits anywhere. 17.5 is probably just right for most 2WD, 13.5 for trucks and 4wd. You'll need a program card to turn on reverse, and you'll have to solder it up.

My absolute favorite system for everything except big horsepower. I even have them in my crawlers.

Skip any 4-pole systems if you can. They make big torque and can break stuff easily.

[TurnipJF 9192]

Some interesting suggestions here. Some quite spendy!

My budget approach involves using the kit-standard TBLE-02 ESC, along with a "Bluebottle" sensored brushless motor off Ebay. These have closed cans, so are quite well-suited to offroaders where dirt ingress may be an issue. While not top-end race motors, they are very quick for the price, every bit as fast as the Speed Passion race motors from a few years ago that I use in some of my other cars.

As for the battery, I use Core RC 2s rounded LiPos which share the same overall dimensions as many old-school NiMH packs and therefore fit both old and new models without issue.

Soldering is a skill that you'll need to pick up at some point for this hobby if you don't have it already. Many LiPos (including the aforementioned Core RC ones) come with Deans female connectors, and while adaptors are available to convert these to the Tamiya connectors used by the ESC, this forms a resistance bottleneck, reducing performance and risking overheating. I prefer to simply cut off the Tamiya connector and solder on a Deans male in its place. You'll also want to solder the motor leads to the motor terminals.

As for other upgrades, there are the "Big 3" - a steel pinion, bearings and oil shocks - that are a good idea for all Tamiya models that don't come with them as standard. Other than that, it is a case of looking at any known weak points of the specific models in question, and addressing these individually.

[Legacy 8]

UPDATE:  First, thanks for all the help so far. You guys are awesome.  I have decided on the following:

-going to start with my son and my TT-02 touring cars for our first brushless systems.  I will wait on the Comicals etc to see if the sport tuned 540 is enough.

-I bought a soldering iron station so I'm good with an esc needing that.

-I will get some type of 13.5 ~3000ish kv motor, sensored.

-Want an esc with reverse capability.  Torn on brand and if I need to get 60a or 120a.

 

With those final parameters, what would you get for 150 or less per setup?  (100ish is even better).

[TurnipJF 9192]

Well, my TT-02 Type S runs very well on 2S LiPo, a Hobbywing 10BL60 and 13.5t Bluebottle, so this is the setup I would recommend. 60A is plenty for such a setup. For 10.5t and below, I use the 120A version. 

[Legacy 8]

15 minutes ago, TurnipJF said:

Well, my TT-02 Type S runs very well on 2S LiPo, a Hobbywing 10BL60 and 13.5t Bluebottle, so this is the setup I would recommend. 60A is plenty for such a setup. For 10.5t and below, I use the 120A version. 

Thanks, and I believe that ESC has a reverse option. 

Since I will be soldering up some connectors, what do I need to get in terms of supplies?  Do the esc and batteries come with certain types I would cut off?  I'm leaning toward xt60 since deans are so dang hard to separate.

[TurnipJF 9192]

If you want to standardise on XT60s (a popular choice) you may very well find that you can buy LiPos with them pre-fitted. I would recommend that you try to find these, as soldering connectors to a live battery is a tad risky and not a procedure even experienced solderers take lightly. If you can avoid it until you have a fair bit of experience, that would be best I think.

As for the ESC connections, Hobbywing ESCs typically come with cables fitted but no battery connectors, so you'll need to get those separately. Some motors (such as the Speed Passion ones) come with bullet connectors to which you solder your ESC wires, others (such as the Bluebottles) have solder tabs. Either way, the keys to a good solder joint on heavy-gauge cable are generally regarded as follows:

A hot iron - something capable of sustaining 350 degrees throughout the procedure. You can spend a fortune on a professional soldering station from Weller such as the one I use at work, or you can go for a cheap unbranded one off eBay such as this one that I use at home: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/60W-Adjustable-Temp-Soldering-Iron-Kit-Electronics-Welding-Solder-Irons-Tool-UK/164029227637. The ability to adjust the temperature is useful, as you want it hot but not too hot, otherwise it will vaporise the flux almost instantly rather than letting it flow.

A broad tip - you want the tip of the soldering iron to be chunky enough to hold its temperature while also having enough surface area to transfer heat quickly to the work item. The iron I linked to above comes with a selection of tips.  For heavy gauge cable I use the broadest one, which is about 4mm wide with a slanted end.

Separate flux paste - the flux built into a typical rosin-cored solder is fine for small items, but is burnt off far too quickly to be effective on the thick cables you'll want to use here. You want to be able to apply an adequate quantity of flux to the workpiece before the soldering iron comes anywhere near it. Again you don't need anything fancy - this is what I use at home: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flux-Soldering-Paste-20g-tin-for-Electronics-SMD-DIY-FAST-UK-DISPATCH/193378394901

There are a few variations of technique preferred by different people - mine is as follows:

1. Apply flux. Place a small quantity of flux paste on the surfaces to be joined. If it is something concave like a bullet or XT-60 connector, I take a toothpick and use this to distribute the flux where I want the solder to stick. If it is the cable itself, I simply stick the stripped end into the tin of flux paste.

2. Tin the pieces. With my iron set to 350 degrees and tinned with a little bit of solder on its tip, I touch it to the pre-fluxed surfaces. The flux should flow briefly, then mostly vaporse, and the solder should adhere to the workpiece. This ought to take a matter of seconds. Then, with the iron still in contact with the workpiece, you can touch the end of your solder wire to the heated area. This should melt and also adhere to the workpiece. You don't need a lot of solder on the connector - just enough to cover the areas to be joined. As for the cable, I like to let it absorb enough solder to not leave any exposed strands un-tinned, but not so much that it soaks beyond the stripped area and into the bulk of the cable as this makes it stiff and unable to flex.

3. Join the pieces. Once both the cable and the connector are adequately tinned, you can then place the cable into/onto the connector in your desired orientation, and touch the hot iron to the cable as it is touching the connector. This should melt the solder that you have already placed there during the tinning process. Once you see that the heat has melted the solder on both the cable and the connector and they have flowed together, you can remove the soldering iron. Within moments, the solder ought to cool and harden, going from a shiny silver to a slightly greyer appearance.

4. Clean-up (optional). The brown flux residue won't do any harm, but to my eye it doesn't look very nice, so if the joint is going to be on display, a quick clean with some IPA and a toothbrush removes it.

Hope this helps!

[Legacy 8]

6 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

If you want to standardise on XT60s (a popular choice) you may very well find that you can buy LiPos with them pre-fitted. I would recommend that you try to find these, as soldering connectors to a live battery is a tad risky and not a procedure even experienced solderers take lightly. If you can avoid it until you have a fair bit of experience, that would be best I think.

As for the ESC connections, Hobbywing ESCs typically come with cables fitted but no battery connectors, so you'll need to get those separately. Some motors (such as the Speed Passion ones) come with bullet connectors to which you solder your ESC wires, others (such as the Bluebottles) have solder tabs. Either way, the keys to a good solder joint on heavy-gauge cable are generally regarded as follows:

A hot iron - something capable of sustaining 350 degrees throughout the procedure. You can spend a fortune on a professional soldering station from Weller such as the one I use at work, or you can go for a cheap unbranded one off eBay such as this one that I use at home: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/60W-Adjustable-Temp-Soldering-Iron-Kit-Electronics-Welding-Solder-Irons-Tool-UK/164029227637. The ability to adjust the temperature is useful, as you want it hot but not too hot, otherwise it will vaporise the flux almost instantly rather than letting it flow.

A broad tip - you want the tip of the soldering iron to be chunky enough to hold its temperature while also having enough surface area to transfer heat quickly to the work item. The iron I linked to above comes with a selection of tips.  For heavy gauge cable I use the broadest one, which is about 4mm wide with a slanted end.

Separate flux paste - the flux built into a typical rosin-cored solder is fine for small items, but is burnt off far too quickly to be effective on the thick cables you'll want to use here. You want to be able to apply an adequate quantity of flux to the workpiece before the soldering iron comes anywhere near it. Again you don't need anything fancy - this is what I use at home: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flux-Soldering-Paste-20g-tin-for-Electronics-SMD-DIY-FAST-UK-DISPATCH/193378394901

There are a few variations of technique preferred by different people - mine is as follows:

1. Apply flux. Place a small quantity of flux paste on the surfaces to be joined. If it is something concave like a bullet or XT-60 connector, I take a toothpick and use this to distribute the flux where I want the solder to stick. If it is the cable itself, I simply stick the stripped end into the tin of flux paste.

2. Tin the pieces. With my iron set to 350 degrees and tinned with a little bit of solder on its tip, I touch it to the pre-fluxed surfaces. The flux should flow briefly, then mostly vaporse, and the solder should adhere to the workpiece. This ought to take a matter of seconds. Then, with the iron still in contact with the workpiece, you can touch the end of your solder wire to the heated area. This should melt and also adhere to the workpiece. You don't need a lot of solder on the connector - just enough to cover the areas to be joined. As for the cable, I like to let it absorb enough solder to not leave any exposed strands un-tinned, but not so much that it soaks beyond the stripped area and into the bulk of the cable as this makes it stiff and unable to flex.

3. Join the pieces. Once both the cable and the connector are adequately tinned, you can then place the cable into/onto the connector in your desired orientation, and touch the hot iron to the cable as it is touching the connector. This should melt the solder that you have already placed there during the tinning process. Once you see that the heat has melted the solder on both the cable and the connector and they have flowed together, you can remove the soldering iron. Within moments, the solder ought to cool and harden, going from a shiny silver to a slightly greyer appearance.

4. Clean-up (optional). The brown flux residue won't do any harm, but to my eye it doesn't look very nice, so if the joint is going to be on display, a quick clean with some IPA and a toothbrush removes it.

Hope this helps!

This is great advice. Thanks for taking the time to write it up. I have my supplies ordered! 

Blue, yellow and orange 13 gauge wire for motors. 

12 gauge red and black wire for batteries. 

Male and female xt60 connectors. 

4mm male and female metal connectors.

Shrink wrap. 

Soldering station, solder and Flux. 

Wire strippers. 

Hope I'm not missing anything, lol.