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Collin

Mid-Storm, just another Dyna.

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8 hours ago, Collin said:

Ok, excel sheets are nice but I need hardware to test.

This is my prototype of a 5-gear transmission... :ph34r: No. just kidding. :lol:
DS_spur_gear_03.jpg

I tested different 48dp spurs with the major idear to keep the original gear cover. So far 87t is the best fit, 92T already too big. I will try another 88/89t just to verify.
Some other combinations would fit but then I would need to move the motor a bit up which moves the center of gravity also. And I thinke we dont want this, right?

Now its like this original DS can run 0.4module 20-31t pinion gear with its original 126t spur gear. This will give you a FDR from 12.6 to 8.13 .
The 48dp 87t spur takes 22-30t pinion. Gives you a FDR from 7.91 to 5.8 .

Both versions will cover the whole range. What do you think about this solution?

 

Seems you got crazy on gears Tom! Now that you tried all the combos, Excel seems obsolete!

Good info on the Serial Dyna, that 31t (0,4) will still fit. Maybe I can still get some topspeed out of the GT tuned engine. That leaves my Brushless 13,5t I´ve left for the Super Dyna Storm.:)

So from your findings 87T 48dp covers really good the lower range. 

Top Job! 

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Looking at this 3 Racing spur gear in the link, it would be interesting to test, if any of these holes will fit the dyna clutch housing?

If not (what is probably the case), a "home" manufacturing method could be, to print a "bore" template to screw on the spur, to guide the drill  for the clutch bore scheme.

Hope I could explain it somehow, that you get my thoughts. So a "durable" spur would be the result. But looking at this SLA printing results, maybe there will be a material someday that will last anyway….

https://tamico.de/3Racing-48-Pitch-Spur-Gear-87T 

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9 hours ago, Collin said:

Now its like this original DS can run 0.4module 20-31t pinion gear with its original 126t spur gear. This will give you a FDR from 12.6 to 8.13 .
The 48dp 87t spur takes 22-30t pinion. Gives you a FDR from 7.91 to 5.8 .

Both versions will cover the whole range. What do you think about this solution?

 

Tom - You sure on those calcs? FDR range should only change marginally by a change in pitch. (you might get a tiny bit more or less at each end of the range due to slightly more/less clearance from one pitch or another).

Dont see how changing pitch would take you from 8.13>12.6 to 5.8>7.91 - FDR as long as gearbox ratios stay constant is basically just comparing the size of the available pinion/spur circles.

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@Ann3x Right now I am not shure with everything :blink: I take a break and will continue next week, hopefully with the carbon plates alredy. About the calculation, I am pretty shure the excel sheet is correct because it generates the correct value for the original DS gearing.

Orig. DS module 0.4
Spur gear 126 with pinion 20t = 12.60
Spur gear 126 with pinion 31t =   8.13
Modif. 48dp
Spur gear  87 with pinion 22t = 7.91
Spur gear  87 with pinion 30t = 5.80

 

@ruebiracer Same thoughts here, maybe one of those drills already fit but maybe not. I am planning to print a "negativ" spur gear which centers/aligne with a hard metal top-plate having the contures of the MDC. You put the spur gear in the mold and the top-plate gives you the drillings for the mount and also guids the milling cutter. I will move the spur gear with the mold/stancil by hands, the mill stays in its position.

Have a great weekend guys!

 

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57 minutes ago, Collin said:

@Ann3x Right now I am not shure with everything :blink: I take a break and will continue next week, hopefully with the carbon plates alredy. About the calculation, I am pretty shure the excel sheet is correct because it generates the correct value for the original DS gearing.

Orig. DS module 0.4
Spur gear 126 with pinion 20t = 12.60
Spur gear 126 with pinion 31t =   8.13
Modif. 48dp
Spur gear  87 with pinion 22t = 7.91
Spur gear  87 with pinion 30t = 5.80

 

@ruebiracer Same thoughts here, maybe one of those drills already fit but maybe not. I am planning to print a "negativ" spur gear which centers/aligne with a hard metal top-plate having the contures of the MDC. You put the spur gear in the mold and the top-plate gives you the drillings for the mount and also guids the milling cutter. I will move the cutting tool by hands, the mill stays in its position.

Have a great weekend guys!

 

Hi guys,

I checked yesterday Toms calculations, and they are correct. But I know Ann3x thoughts:

From the slots and the axle distances it will still fit, But it´s true, that for the lower gearing the Diameter of the spur gets smaller, the diameter of the pinion gets bigger.

So it can be, that you still can mount this combo to the gear box, but depending on the design of the gear cover in the pinion area the cover cannot be mounted anymore. That needs to be checked. For the 30t pinion in 48dp I come to an outer Diameter of the pinion of 12,69mm by calculation. So check in an original Dyna Storm could be simply to drop in a pinion with that diameter and slide the motor all the way back and fix. Then try to attach the gear cover. If it fits, the combo works.

Have a nice weekend, too!

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Have a rest @Collin. Basically as long as you can accommodate a larger spur & pinion than the vanilla dyna - youll have more options wrt FRD and i think will be fine.

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Ahoi! I will start with a 94T (biggest possible under the original gearcover) and a 89T spur gear now. Seems like I can get it printed with some special new Filament. The resolutiong is not the problem, its only the material.

About the pinion. 28T fits inside, 30T would fint too but needs to dremel a bit away inside the gearcover. I dont think it will hurt to grind away a bit from inside. Anyway to use the gearcover on the Super Dyna the small web/root face(?) which goes around the moto-plate need to be cut on the lengh of about 20mm.

 

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7 hours ago, Collin said:

Ahoi! I will start with a 94T (biggest possible under the original gearcover) and a 89T spur gear now. Seems like I can get it printed with some special new Filament. The resolutiong is not the problem, its only the material.

About the pinion. 28T fits inside, 30T would fint too but needs to dremel a bit away inside the gearcover. I dont think it will hurt to grind away a bit from inside. Anyway to use the gearcover on the Super Dyna the small web/root face(?) which goes around the moto-plate need to be cut on the lengh of about 20mm.

 

Very cool News Tom!

I already thought about trimming the small section for the motorplate. 

Interesting with the new filament. That would be top stuff, if that works. Count me in as testdriver.:D

But what module you talk about now? As you say 94T is the biggest from diameter? Thought you wanted to make it smaller than the 126 T/ 0,4 module original spur?

Or do you just want to cover the whole range with 2 of your new spurs? Guess you still talk about 48dp, right?

 

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Right, its all about 48p. I thought that was clear? Modul 0.4 is very small and not possible to print.

Do you think it makes sense to do the whole range from 94 down to 80 in 2t steps? I thought about keeping things simple, just one new spur gear. When you check my posting from earlier it shows that you can cover 12.x down to 6.x with original gear and the 48dp one.

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2 minutes ago, Collin said:

Right, its all about 48p. I thought that was clear? Modul 0.4 is very small and not possible to print.

Do you think it makes sense to do the whole range from 94 down to 80 in 2t steps? I thought about keeping things simple, just one new spur gear. When you check my posting from earlier it shows that you can cover 12.x down to 6.x with original gear and the 48dp one.

Yes, I was confused about the 94T. Of course printing makes only sense with bigger teeth. 

2t steps are nice, but creates a lot of spurs and work for you. I think that is fine tuning, when you compete in a Championship and try to reach an exact Ratio as good as possible.

I´d tend to say 4T steps is enough.

Just checked the Super Astute rerelease ratios: Where the Original Dyna ends at 9,33:1 (fastest), the Super Astute just starts at 9,22:1 down to 7,86:1.

That just tells me, it cannot be that wrong Tom!;)

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Its not about my work, its simply not affordable. If printing will work, its not that bad. If not it means to modifie existing ones. Lot of prepairations. If I let them machine by someone having CNC equipment, its around 35-40€ per spurgear.

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13 minutes ago, Collin said:

Its not about my work, its simply not affordable. If printing will work, its not that bad. If not it means to modifie existing ones. Lot of prepairations. If I let them machine by someone having CNC equipment, its around 35-40€ per spurgear.

yes, that´s expensive stuff on CNC. I´m still thinking a printed adapter for any aftermarket spur could be the way. It´s just about finding the right spur with not too much cutouts.:lol:

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Printed adapter was my initial idear but is not the way for me. It will be too heavy. For original DS go for the DT03 DF-03 slipper mod and all problems solved. For the Midmotor it needs the MDC unless you modifie the main shaft. And using MDC with adapter to any other spur gear will be much too complicated. You need a adapter, need to mount it to the MDC and need to modifie the donor spur gear. Adding some screws for the extra mounts.

The way to go is the production of spur gears who simply fit plug and play.

But maybe you find a better and easier solution?

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9 hours ago, Collin said:

Printed adapter was my initial idear but is not the way for me. It will be too heavy. For original DS go for the DT03 slipper mod and all problems solved. For the Midmotor it needs the MDC unless you modifie the main shaft. And using MDC with adapter to any other spur gear will be much too complicated. You need a adapter, need to mount it to the MDC and need to modifie the donor spur gear. Adding some screws for the extra mounts.

The way to go is the production of spur gears who simply fit plug and play.

But maybe you find a better and easier solution?

O.k. Tom, I stop nerving you with the adapter ring!:D It´s now clear to me, that you search for the ultimate lightweight solution.

That´s probably also why you lightened the slipper housing of your aother Dyna. great idea, by the way. I´ll put some thoughts in a modified spur, Maybe I find something usable. But could you enlight me About the DT03 slipper mod? Do you have a link or pics? Was it made on a Dyna, or a DT03, and the idea can be copied?

Or Maybe you meant using the DF03 slipper Clutch set? Just for my Knowledge, I´ll definetely not built out the DS slipper Clutch in my original or the mid. It´s Kind of DNA...;)

But a lightened Clutch housing like yours could be a nice touch on the mid, together with aluminum screws for the spur. :)

Have a nice day,

Matthias

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On 6/15/2020 at 9:05 AM, Collin said:

Nono, Matthias, maybe the adapter is the answer, I just decided to go another way. If you have an idear, please share it.

Of course its the DF-03. http://www.rcfan.net/dynastorm/2.html

 

 

 

Thank you for the link Tom, from the dimensions I thought DF03 would be easiest to adapt to the original main shaft.

How about 7,2:1? Quite short for a Buggy already!? Cost? Only the pinion!

Took some pics on my original Dyna Storm to Show in the evening, how I fitted it! Tamiya did a great job on the Dyna, they just didn´t mention it... :lol:

Show you later,

Matthias

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3 hours ago, ruebiracer said:

Thank you for the link Tom, from the dimensions I thought DF03 would be easiest to adapt to the original main shaft.

How about 7,2:1? Quite short for a Buggy already!? Cost? Only the pinion!

Took some pics on my original Dyna Storm to Show in the evening, how I fitted it! Tamiya did a great job on the Dyna, they just didn´t mention it... :lol:

Show you later,

Matthias

Yea please. Somehow I am again confused. :lol:

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So finally I took my Dyna Storm out today, which needs anyway a Little overhaul.

So digged out the Motor I drove last year with my nephew on the 27T pinion, a GT tuned I had left over from my Vajra kit. Quite slow for me, good to learn Buggy driving for my nephew. I cleaned the spur, looked on different spur gears I have lying to Maybe make fitable to the clutch housing. But first I wanted to measure the "real" axle distances, that the Slot and the Motor movement can give: So it was even more than I calculated from TAmiyas pinion range in the Manual (20t t0 27T 0,4 module). 28,1 to 31,9mm I was measuring. Looked in my calculator, 126T original spur and 35T pinion 0,4 would give an axle distance of 32,2mm. Slightly too much for the original Slot, but the Motor has 4 mounting holes close too each other. So mounted the second screw in the second hole for a test, mountable! Calculator said Ratio 7,2:1. :) For sure more topspeed, although I doubt this Motor could handle this ratio in offroad use. Now you say: no gearcover! But a test fit showed only slight mounting problems. Could it be fitted with slight work? Marked the inside with white pen, ounted the cover and turned the wheels, to give a mark where the fit is too close. Not a big area, see the photo below. 

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I have a new spare gear cover, so I thought, get it grinded! 

So I adjusted the Motor slightly farer away from the spur, left the pinion on and searched a battery!:lol:

Cover fixed on with one screw, plug the battery directly to the Motor, and press the cover fully down. I call it self grinding!:D

Did it on my TA02, so I was quite sure it works. The test rig:

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Cleaned out the chips with the cutter and fitted again with the pinion to mesh the spur again. Then battery on, Voila! 7,2:1 without noise, using a 35 64dp pinion. 

If you dont have a motor with 2 mounting holes close to each other, it´s just a little enlarging of the slot, see in the pic the left mounting hole.spacer.png

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That brings me to think, that the 120T spur gear used in the DF03 conversion is a perfect fit for the adjusting range given.

You could go from 21T to approximately 40T covering a Ratio range from 11,43 to 6,0:1!

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13 hours ago, ruebiracer said:

Cover fixed on with one screw, plug the battery directly to the Motor, and press the cover fully down. I call it self grinding!:D

Finally some action here. :lol:
 

Well, one thing I dont understand. Isnt there a issue when using only different pinions? Why do they offer so many spur gears (for one model) then? Shouldnt be it like, that you use a smaller range of pinions but changing the spur gear instead?

I think thats what bothering me all the time. Just swaping the pinions, is it that easy?

 

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Me, I think the best idea is to modify the slipper shaft to use the DF03 slipper which opens the door to all kinds of different size spur gears and pitches. Does someone have a Super Astute Rere slipper shaft and DS slipper shaft to compare?

I guess I could look at a manual online !!!!😄

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Changing both pinion and spur achieves the same thing net as changing only 1 of them by twice the amount - in terms of ratio not tooth count - BUT takes up more space. So in a cramped layout it can be good to have options for both to change.

With enough space there's nothing stopping you from fitting a 70t pinion :)!

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