avante 2001 hop-ups?

[Jabba1]

Hi guys,

Having recently achieved a childhood dream of owning a avante(ok it's the 2001 not the real one!) i was wondering what are good hop-up's to make.The car is in absolutly standard trim with the original sport-tuned motor.What tamiya motor would be a good upgrade and what else would i need to do,bear in mind that i'm a novice although i've had cars for over 17 years.

[kontemax]

Hi,

the first thing is add ball bearings all around. Second thing is Hi Cap (or equal other brand) dampers. These are the basic modifications to do. If you want to go over you can turn your 2001 into an Egress.

You need this:

Carbon Chassis

Titanium screws and alluminium nuts

Front little bumper

Front and rear ball diffs with center locked or center one way

Different front damper geometry.

Another thing you can easly change are ball connector and turnbuckles all around.

Don't change the FRP steering bar. Yes, Egress one is carbon made but Avante 2001 one works better.

There are some improvements on Avante 2001 to avoid breacage in front of Egress. Rear arms stay on chassis is reinforced. Front bumper is longer and larger. Front and rear lower arma are bigger and reiforced.

I also suggest ti substitude a part in the front end. It's the front arms stay. Mount the Vanquish one. Is a little bit different but is stronger cause is one piece made instead of two pieces screwed all together with four screws. It mount with the bigger bumper.

Also I kept center diff on my Egress, I think is a little bit better for manouevrability and transmission stress.

Cheers

Max

[Jabba1]

Sounds good max,i'll start with the bearings and dampers.What motor do you reccommend?

[kontemax]

You can mount any motor you want. I used an 11x4 on my Avante 2001 and now I'm using an 12x2 on my Egress. If you use so hot motors you must have steel pinion gears cause original ones will go to consuption easly and they destroy the spur gear. I also make some mod on the spur gear you can see it in my showroom.

RRP produce steel pinions for tamiya.

With these hot motors is better you keep on the center diff and, if possibly, built by yourself a thicker motor mount plate (I made one of 3mm alloy and another of 2.5 mm of carbon fiber).

Anyway you can easly use 17 turns or 14 turns without any mods.

Cheers

Max

[Jabba1]

wow thanks for all the info,the avante has always been the car i wanted.Max where can i get a set of ball-bearing for the avante 2001? i'd had a look on the net but not found anything.

[kontemax]

Hi.

Buy the ball bearings at your local hobby shop or better in a specialized ball bearing shop. Remember they are metric.

Wheels use 1150 (11mm external, 5mm internal, 4mm thickness)

Maybe mechanic is fitted, don't remember well. If not take the bushing and go in your shop with them.

There are also 4 1860 if I remember well, a couple of 720 or 730, some 850. use a caliper for measurements.

Or try again on the net waiting for someone...

Cheers

Max

[Jabba1]

Hi max,

Do you find that the wheels seem a little loose/steering very sensitive on the avante 2001?Which is the best the mini or short hi-cap dampers?

Also lost my battery stay part n1,do you know if any other part will fit?

[Jabba1]

Managaed to get a set of hi-cap dampers,now when looking through my manual the only hop-up to ball bearings is for the steering where the BT1 metal bearing can be upgraded the 850 ball bearings which doesn't seem that necessary,all the other ones are ball bearings,could you tell me max which ones you think i should replace.I'm thinking of going for the dyna run motor 13t motor like mud4fun,do you think this is ok and do i need a motor mount and spur/pinion gear?thanks

[Jabba1]

Do you think the posi-joint universals are worth having ,have most of the other hop-ups other than the lower carbon chassis deck.Going to weigh this up against my egress and see how much weight i'll save.

[kontemax]

Hi Jabba1,

how many questions!

I think that front large wheels aren't the best. The Avante 2001 is oversteerer so less grip on front is better. You can switch to gravel hound rims and tires, narrow at front, large at rear. You can also choose different tires if you want, but keep the rims. They perfectly fit on Avante 2001.

TA01/02 battery locker seems similar but doesn't fit without modifications. Check the holes distance on the chassis. If you need mahe a couple of holes more in the upper deck. I suggest you to search the original part on ebay.

Avante 2001, Egress, Vanquish mount mini Hi Cap at front and short at rear. They work fine. You can improve front suspension using Egress front geometry. Higher top stays, more narrow lower stays. The dampers will stay more vertical gaining suspension travel.

You can also switch to short at front instead of mini. Check showroom of EGRESSor, his Egress use longer dampers at front.

Surelly replace the steering bushing with four 850 ball bearings. The rest of the car is fully ball beared.

You can mount the Dyna Run but I think it hasn't a lot of torque. An Orion Pro BB 14T x 3 is better in my opinion. More torque. You shouldn't have problems with this motor if you use the car on the ground, sand or gravel. You should have some problem on asphalt or tarmac, where the grip is higher. Keep in mind that I stripped spur and pinion on asphalt but I was using an 11T with 8.4V battery. You shouldn't have problems.

The Posi-joints are beautifull but original universal works very well. They are lighter than posijoints. Don't use uJs at rear end, you will broke them.

FRP plate are 1 and half the weight of Carbon. If you want to save weight on the 2001 you must change the wheels, cut away the driver, cut away the sway bars (not needed in my opinion), change the upper arms to smaller 3mm ones with ball connectors (they works better), change the plates into carbon ones and change all screws and nut with titanium and alluminium ones.

Hope I helped you.

If you need some suggestion check my Egress runner in my showroom.

Cheers

Max

[bomba]

Hi Jabba,

I have an Avante 2001 and have a carbon chassis, Egress front shock tower, wheels and shocks, as well as all titanium screws and have also removed the sway bars and use a modified bumper (astute rear skid plate/motor protector cut down to fit). The wieght difference is a huge improvement on stock and the car runs faster and handles jumps alot better. I highly recomend lightening the car as much as your budget can allow!I also have no battery stay and modfied an old mechanical speed controller mounting part with an astute front body mount and although ugly it seems to do the job! I have tried to get an origional part from ebay but am still waiting for 1 to come up

Hey Max,

how did you mount the 8.4v? I had to grind down the front post just to fit a 2000mah battery pack in, is this a common problem? I can fit a 1700 in but there is no way I'll ever fit my 3300's in!

Cheers, Chris

[raemin]

If you pretend to use such powerfull motors, just try a forward only esc and be very gentle when using breaks. This is all the more trus if you have the one way center diff. The rear gearbox is prety weak when operating in reverse : the tiny center diff ball bearing is kept in place by the bearbox cover, in the long run, some play occurs and the motor gear and center diff get stripped. This does not occur in forward as the gear rotation tends to pull the diff into the gearbox, in reverse rotation it is pulled out and pushes the gearbox cover.

[Jabba1]

thanks guys,most helpful.

[mud4fun]

Kontemax is spot on here, I run an Avante2001 with a 13t dyna run super touring and 8.4v and as kontemax suggest, it is better to lock the center diff. I have also locked my rear diff just to try and get some power down. On a dry dusty track it will merrily wheelspin on the spot and not go anywhere otherwise!!! remember that with a center diff open if just one wheel spins you'll lose all traction even on a 4wd.

Ball bearings were standard on the avnte2001 but it would be best to buy new ones anyway as you don't know how much use the originals have had. BTW The original ball bearings are easily recognised by their little blue dust shield around the bearing. Most cheap bearings you get off ebay don't have these dirt shields and I have found they do make the bearings last a lot longer. I guess you get what you pay for!

I mounted my 8.4v pack very simply by relocating the front alloy post, that acts as a battery retainer, forward by about 20mm from memory. Only took a few minutes. Just drill new holes and countersink them in the FRP decks. There is plenty of room.

I would also agree with Kontemax that it is better to run narrow tyres on the front. I found the steering too quick with wide tyres and had really bad oversteer. I run super soft compound pin spikes on my Avante2001 with no foams in the rear just foams in the front. I run large spikes at the rear and tiny spikes on the front. This gives a neutral balance to the handling when speeding on rougher ground and dirt.

[Jabba1]

Hi mud4fun,

I have the lightweight(egress wheels) front and back and the hybrid tires asell.I have the dual ball diff and torque splitter set(53034),does this lock the centre diff?

[Mountain]

You get the choice with the ball diff set (53034) of either locking the centre diff or having it one way.

A question on the Hi-Cap dampers I have the Egress front shock mount tower but not the bottom supports as I can't seem to find them anywhere. Has anybody mounted the shocks to the normal Avante 2001 bottom mount with the Egress tower. Wondered if it worked, what the handling was like and what shock length you used.

[kontemax]

Hi mountain,

if you mount top Egress stay and lower Avante stays the front end will be too much low. You can try to built the lower stays with alluminium as I did on my runner. You just need a saw, a driller, a file and a drawed alloy "L" bar.

But check well your front top stay. If you find it in the package of Mini Hi Cap Dampers it isn't the Egress one but is an option for the first Avante or the Vanquish and it has the same geometry of Avante 2001 ones. It's lower than Egress one so you can mount the bottom of the Hi Caps directly on the lower arms.

Max

[Mountain]

Hi Kontemax,

thanks for the info, I know about the shock tower in the mini hicap damper but also have an Egress one as well that I got in an Egress parts lot.

If you do mount the shock tower from the hicap or Vanquish then then recommended length is longer than the Avante 2001. Would have thought it would have been the same any ideas?

[kontemax]

Hi mountain,

I think the all lenght of the mini Hi Caps isn't enough with Egress top stay and Vanquish lower stays (I tested years ago).

With the Vanquish configuration the shock travel finishes before the botton of the car touches the ground. I eliminated the inner spacer to add lenght to the damper, then I shortened the lower ball connector to resume the right total damper lenght. In this way I gained 4 millimeter of suspension travel more but yet not enough to leave the car touches the ground.

With Egress top stay and Vanquish lower stay and mini Hi Cap all extended the car remained yet low in front end. By this way Tamiya's technitians managed the Egress solution.

You have two possibility in my opinion:

1st you buy the Egress lower stays or build them buy yourself as I made.

2nd switch to short Hi Cap in front (equal to rear) but build a new front shock tower, more high than Egress one, as EGRESSor did.

Believe me, long suspension travel at front is too much important!

Max

[mud4fun]

quote:If you do mount the shock tower from the hicap or Vanquish then then recommended length is longer than the Avante 2001. Would have thought it would have been the same any ideas?

id="quote">id="quote">

The vanquish had much better suspension travel both front and rear compared to the Avante2001. This is partly to do with longer shock mounts but also the yellow CVA's were longer. The rear shocks on the vanquish also sit ahead of the rear driveshafts. This allows for a much longer travel (the shocks are mounted much closer to the center of radius of the rear trailing arms thus travel a much shorter distance for the same vertical wheel travel).

The suspension is also more supple and off road biased on the vanquish compared to the Avante2001. You'll find that the stock Avante2001 suspension is too hard and with such small amount of vertical wheel travel you often bounce uncontrollably on rough ground which affects overall handling.

Ideally for a rougher terrain you'd have the Vanquish suspension arrangement on the Avante2001 FRP decks. The vanquish plastic bathatub chassis is just awful design. A right pain to get the bettery in to the compartment when it is dirty, no room to get the motor in and out fast and you can't modify it easily to run 8.4v packs like you can on the Avante2001.

[kontemax]

Surelly I think like you Mud4fun.

Often cheaper Tamiya's car are better than expensive one. See the Mad Cap. If upgraded it works better than the Astute. Or better, if the Astute is upgraded with Mad Cap parts works better than original.

Vanquish rear suspension works better than Avante 2001 and Egress (with Hi Caps). This is dued to shocks positions but also dued to the arms linkage position. Check the differences (I wrote a topic without any answer about): the front link (of the rear arm) is higher on the Vanquish and the rear link is lower. This allow a better caster angle when suspension is compressed (the arm is orizontal). On Avante 2001 and Egress the rear arms with the suspension compressed have the opposite angle the should have. For this reason in my opinion Vanquish one works better.

Max

[Jabba1]

My motor mount is missing on my egress would it be better to try and get one made up in 3mm aluminium than trying to find a original,i could use my avnate 2001 one as a template.Do you need the motor plate when using a aluminium motor mount,are they the paper/cardboard things?

[kontemax]

In my opinion is better if you built a 3mm thick motor mount. use the 2001 one as template.

Don't use the motor plate, let the motor mount touch with the motorcan. It will work like an heat dissipator.

Max

[Jabba1]

Thanks Max,helpful as ever.

[kontemax]

Added the picts in my showroom about the lower handmade suspensio stay.

Max