Frog re-re drive shafts

[Toykid]

Hi Guys,

You will be pleased to know, or maybe not so pleased, that the re-re frog has the original drive shafts. Yes upon close personal inspection this weekend at ihobby here in LA I was surprised that Tamiya decided to keep the original design.

James.

[WillyChang]

Nothing wrong with those ol' hex bones!! Just keep 'em clean.

Did T keep the classic finned shockers on the rear?

Or plastic CVAs now. [?]

[DJTheo]

Tamiya designed some new metal ones, guess without factory integrated sealings, there was a comparison image in a topic but couldn't find it now, hope the new ones also work better.

Cheers

[gozone]

Oh well. I will just have to wait and see.. My LHS called me up last week, on behalf of the Danish Tamiya-Importer, and asked if i had any requests for any of the re-re cars coming out soon. Not really wanting anything else but a Frog, i then pre-ordered one of those.

I think it was very nice of him to think about me, dont you?.

Anyway, it should get here around January, and the price would be very close to the price i paid for my first Frog back in 1986. Will however be quite funny to see which things they have changed since the first release of the car..

Cheers..

Michael

[jimbo858]

quote:Originally posted by DJTheo

Tamiya designed some new metal ones, guess without factory integrated sealings, there was a comparison image in a topic but couldn't find it now, hope the new ones also work better.

Cheers

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what were the originals made out of? weren't those metal as well?

[RichieRich]

The shocks are metal but they seem to be thicker/bigger. The caps are plastic along with the eyelet on the shock shaft. Also, they use screws with locknuts on the transmission case instead of the old nuts with the grippy design cut into it. There were a few other small differences, I'll post again if I can remember the rest. I too was at the ihobby expo in Los Angeles. It was fun.

[DJTheo]

quote:Originally posted by jimbo858

quote:Originally posted by DJTheo

Tamiya designed some new metal ones, guess without factory integrated sealings, there was a comparison image in a topic but couldn't find it now, hope the new ones also work better.

Cheers

---

id="quote">id="quote">

what were the originals made out of? weren't those metal as well?

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id="quote">id="quote">

Sure, but different design.

Cheers

[TamiyaDan]

delete.

[terry.sc]

Never had a problem with the hex drives in my race Frog running in the off road nationals greased with boots and running indoors without boots and using dry lube. same as the diff, regular maintenance kept everything running fine. Biggest problem I had with the Frog was the front end. Way too much play and wears badly as standard, not good for racing.

In the uK alternative hex drives moulded in a reinforced polycarbonate were available and these were brilliant. Anyone who used these never had wear problems at all. Shame the company doesn't exist any more.

[Wireless]

The hex drive issues in the monster trucks were exasperated by the larger torque reversals due to the heavier wheels and tyres (more inertia) and the greater grip that they offered. The culmination of these changes meant much bigger torque reversals passing through the shafts and them breaking down.

Remember, the shafts were designed for the Brat and an RS-380S...!!!

[HunterZero]

I've said it before, the hex dogbones are not that bad! I ran my Frog on the weekend, still running the original hex dogbones and cups it has had from new from its kit box in 1986!

If there's a weakness in the Frog, it's with all the pressed metal parts.

The metal parts wear at the suspension and steering hinge pins, causing slop. The gearbox side plates flex, allowing the diff to separate (although this isn't the only problem that causes a slipping diff). I have had to replace ALL the metal parts in my Frog, they all wore out so the slop in the front end made the car undriveable. There was more than 1mm (more like 2mm) play in the rear suspension mounts thanks to wear of the metal gearbox side plates and metal trailing arm retainers. The holes were worn into an oval shape!

The other problem is the white nylon diff bearing housings. Wear on these parts and the back of the right bevel gear is the main offender for causing the diff to slip. Once the bearing housings wear, again combined with the flexing gearbox sides, the differential slips and clicks, but nothing a couple of 5mm shims can't fix.

The front suspension spring buttons are another point of wear.

- James

[Mervyn]

Same experiance here. I used to tear my old frog down every few days and clean/re-lube everything and it ran fine for a very long period of time,even with a technipower motor.

[Toykid]

Errr, DJTheo,

quote:

Originally posted by DJTheo

"Tamiya designed some new metal ones, guess without factory integrated sealings, there was a comparison image in a topic but couldn't find it now, hope the new ones also work better."

Are you talking about the driveshafts or the rear shocks??? As far as I am aware the original driveshafts never had factory integrated seals. And yes, if you are reffering to the shocks, the rear shocks have been redesigned. I wish they hadn't been.

I spoke to David Jun about the development of the re-re Frog. He didn't know too much as it was done in Japan but he did say that Tamiya wanted to keep the car as original as possible for the collectors as the understand that this is what we like. I guess the shocks designed the old way were too expensive? So sorry HunterZero we are all going to have to put up with the old quirks of the car as it didn't look to me like Tamiya redesigned the rear gearbox.

James.

[HunterZero]

Pretty sure DJTheo was referring to the rear shock absorbers.

Personally I'm very glad the drivetrain is the same. I was just pointing out that the hex dogbones on my car outlasted those pressed metal parts, I wasn't highlighting those metal parts as a severe weakness. It took me a long time to wear out my original set of metal parts, but that's just what wore out first for me. I actually found the whole Frog car to be robust, and it lasted very well. I used to run mine with a Technigold, which it handled fine.

And it means spare parts will be compatible with the original cars based on that chassis - Brat, Lancia 037, Blackfoot, Monser Beetle etc.

It just disappoints me a bit when other people rag on the Frog's rear end reliability. I'm convinced if you had problems with the Frog type drivetrain, then you weren't maintaining it properly, or you had a faulty set of dogbones. I can understand that these parts wear or break faster in the Monster Beetle and Blackfoot, since they're driving larger tires.

- James

[DJTheo]

Also think the dampers were re-designed as the old ones with the integrated sealings were propably too expensive to produce and not servicable.

Also don't understand the problems people have with the drive shafts, even my Mud Blaster from 88 still has the first set, haven't even used the 2nd set that was included in the kit yet. [8D] Ok, I didn't put a 14T motor on it, but at least some torquey 550 sized ones. Maybe good grease (think I used molybdenum one back then), not glueing tires on rims and a bit of luck?

Cheers

[RichieRich]

I wore out one set of dogbones on my Frog. Though, I really think the problem is with overlubrication or not enough lubrication of the half-shafts. If you put them in too dry, you had excessive binding and quick wear. If you lubbed them up too much, they seemed to slip around in the drive cup and round themselves off. I've seen both happen with friend's Frogs/Brats.

[HunterZero]

I used molybdenum grease too, was the best stuff for lubricating metal parts.

Could be as well that I didn't jump my Frog too much (although it did see some airtime). I'd imagine jumping the car and being rough on the throttle would be hard on the drivetrain.

- James

[T.C~Tamiya]

I remember giving my Frog some major airtime... off the top of a BMX quarter-pipe.