No IFS no Buts! TA05 IFS Conversion

[ChrisRx718 4470]

Please excuse my ramblings, not really much of a project this, more of a conversion / modification of taking a TA05-R and adding IFS (Inboard Front Suspension). 

The Backstory:

Take yourselves all the way back to 2007 (yes, it really was 13 years ago) in April the TA05-R was announced. At the time, I was working at Time Tunnel Models part time and attending college, also learning to drive 1:1 cars. My hobby was 1:10 drifting, which went from my first Tamiya; the TL01 Castrol Tom's Supra 2000 (58264) fitted with drift tyres, then quickly into a TT01D Subaru Impreza (58349). 

After attending a couple of events I quickly realised that I was way out of my depth. This was long before the days of CS (Counter-steer) and RWD drifting, so 4WD with a nose-heavy weight distribution was key to success. I remember there were competitors with Yokomo Drift Chassis, HPI RS4 (?), TA04s etc. But the most competitive one of all was the mighty TA03F. This front-motor 4WD layout made drifting on the control tyre (Yokomo Drift Rings) incredibly easy, like child's play. 

I did what anyone would do in this scenario and built my own TA03F, since these were no longer a newly-available kit* I had to buy a chassis from eBay and add the hop ups I needed to make a veritable Dori-dori machine! 
*You could buy the TA03F Drift Spec 49377, but this was difficult to come by in the UK and barely any were imported

I sank a fortune into this chassis and I still own it to this day, although I did rebuilt it with all new parts in 2013, project thread link here > CLICK < (Sadly all the images are hosted on photobucket)

What's funny about the TA03 is that they breed when you're not looking:

(Sadly, many of these are now sold  )

What I could never have seen coming however was that over the winter whilst building this TA03F the UK RC Drift organisers decided to outlaw the chassis because it was unfair on everyone else  (I'm not bitter...)

So instead of throw away the whole season or soldier on with my TT01D I decided to sink even more money into a TA05-R chassis 49418:

To-date it was the most expensive kit I'd owned, even with a nice discount for working at the shop at the time.

I ran the car box-stock at my first event and placed 2nd. The TA05-R was a very balanced machine, particularly good at long sweeping curves and transitions (when you drift from one angle to the next). 

I then added some tasty hop-ups as can be seen here:

I added:
Aluminium motor mount
Aluminium stabiliser holders (F&R)
Ltd edition Transparent blue bulkhead supports
Carbon fibre front and rear suspension towers
Blue carbon battery retaining brace
Front one-way differential

You can also see the car is still fitted with the control motor (Yokomo 19T) and period Novak XRS ESC. 

My interest in the hobby waned a bit after this. I had a fleeting romance with a TA05-MS chassis (which I sold un-built, for a sum I really don't want to talk about!  ). Instead my interests became driving my 1:1 car, girls and alcohol. In that order generally!

So what to do with it now? First thing I did was photograph it to sell:

But I couldn't bring myself to sell it. It's still the highest performance chassis I have and I just like owning it.

I'm fascinated by the whole push-rod suspension of the F201 chassis and upcoming TC-01, and I'm unlikely to be able to afford one of either of those in the short-term, so a very late night WhatsApp conversation with @svenb which went something like; "What parts do I need to convert my TA05 to IFS?"

Shortly after this ended up as me placing an order for some parts! 

Clearly not all of those parts are for my TA05...

 

[svenb 3778]

Don't blame me mate for your addiction 😂

Finished results!?! 

Wonder if the TB03 aluminium IFS brace fits 🤔

[ThunderDragonCy 7881]

Have fun with this. When i bought my TA06 everyone warned me off IFS but it seems that is just a specific case for the 06 due to apparently sub optimal rocker angles. I now how an FF03 which came IFS stock and its great. I love how it moves everything out the way for fwd, and makes the shocks easy to access. Given some of my hop ups are marked TA05 I believe your setup will be similar. Should be good! 

[ChrisRx718 4470]

14 hours ago, svenb said:

Don't blame me mate for your addiction 😂

Finished results!?! 

Wonder if the TB03 aluminium IFS brace fits 🤔

I've been googling that now, I can't seem to find a part # (Thankfully). I've seen a few online IFS setups with an aluminium cross brace but I think this was part of a 3Racing conversion kit.

1 hour ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Have fun with this. When i bought my TA06 everyone warned me off IFS but it seems that is just a specific case for the 06 due to apparently sub optimal rocker angles. I now how an FF03 which came IFS stock and its great. I love how it moves everything out the way for fwd, and makes the shocks easy to access. Given some of my hop ups are marked TA05 I believe your setup will be similar. Should be good! 

Yep, really only doing this for the engineering 'look' of it, I couldn't care less if it performs worse / better afterwards!

First update was to bring this thing down from the top of the wardrobe:

First thing's first, let's strip out the out-dated electronics:

I did wonder if the Novak ESC would be worth anything to a collector, but looking at eBay they're only worth ~ £20, so I may keep this for another build. Those motor wires are seriously long though!

The Tamiya S3003 Servo can go in my upcoming TA02 build. The motor can go in a box for now!

The one thing I'll never forget about carpet running is the amount of carpet fibres which end up trapped in the chassis. I imagine this is similar for grip racing? 

Anyway, couple that with 4-5 years of dust (despite having a bodyshell over) and this is the result:

Ewwww!

I also rediscovered this little thing, I know @svenb knows what it is, but does anyone else? Or does anyone remember the manufacturer of the part?

I'm off to give this a deep-clean...

[ChrisRx718 4470]

Morning all...

Update time. When I said deep clean what I meant was 5 minutes with a 2" paintbrush and some heavy duty 'hoooffing' into the bits I couldn't reach 

Came out alright though? Transparent bulkhead supports removed too.

First thing's first, pop open the front diff bulkhead:

I'm using the carbon reinforced N Parts for the new bits, as they were only a few USD more and they fit with the rest of the TA05-R chassis:

Next pop off the front suspension arms by removing the front toe block:

I studied the above and a TA05-IFS manual and realised that they had assembled the IFS setup with the arms flipped from this orientation. I wasn't sure on how much difference it would make (on reflection, not a lot) but I didn't want to put it all together only to realise something didn't line up properly, which is typically something I do because I'm really impatient!

So I flipped the arms and knuckles/C-hubs so it was exactly as-per the manual. Note the fixing points for the dampers are now on the back side, in a different position (and they will now be for the push-rod, rather than the damper) :

The old vs. new bulkhead / front damper tower:

All fitted up with tarty blue aluminium screws:

Time to build the IFS bulkhead support:

Those tiny little cap-head socket screws I almost missed from my parts search, thinking I could use any number of 3 x 10mm machine screw. This was a crucial part I was waiting for from @svenb who kindly ordered them from France I think?

Anyway, this is the reason you need them, they secure the 'rocker nuts' (ie. threaded cylinders) onto the reinforced plastic. There would have been no space for a button-headed screw in that gap!

Then from the top, you simply attach the rocker arms (aluminium ones are actually provided with 4x 850 bearings, almost justifying their price!!). They're held in with 4mm E-clips which are a ****** to install:

Bulkhead support installed, again with signature tarty blue aluminium screws:

Rear bulkhead support also replaced, I could have kept the transparent blue part here but I wanted them both to match 

Tamiya Purists look away now!

For the pushrods I needed some 3x28mm turnbuckles but unfortunately they were out of stock at the time I was ordering parts. The next nearest equivalent were the same product from MST, and I have to say I'm impressed by the quality. The anodising is also a very good match for the Tamiya blue:

And they work with the proper Tamiya turnbuckle wrench! :

Installed, you'd never know they weren't Tamiya parts:

Now, I can finally re-install the dampers:

Beautiful 

I'll never understand why the manual states to install the dampers 'upside down' ie. with the caps facing downwards? Does anyone know?

Next job is to install the electronics.

[ThunderDragonCy 7881]

@ChrisRx718 That looks great. It's interesting to note the differences with the FF03. You don't need the special screw to hole the rocker posts on with the FF03. I was about to mention the dampers. They mount the other way around because at the moment you are moving the heaviest part of the damper. Flipping them over lowers the CG of the whole car a bit, and puts the light part of the damper on the moving end of the suspension, which should in theory be a little more responsive. If you can notice the difference you're a better man than me, but that's the theory!

[Grotty Otty 868]

23 hours ago, ChrisRx718 said:

I'll never understand why the manual states to install the dampers 'upside down' ie. with the caps facing downwards? Does anyone know?

The heavier body of the damper should be static whilst the much lighter piston and shaft compress. With it the other way round the piston is static and the body moves. As @ThunderDragonCy says the lightest point should be what moves for it to be more responsive.

That's a great looking chassis, must have been ahead of its time. I've noticed all the current top end touring cars are going mid mounted motor. 

[Mark_C 198]

I've got a TA05IFS on the way, what lipo packs fit best ? some cars have a little more space in and you can get a hard case pack thats a tiny ibt bigger than the traditional nimh stick, so just wondering what I can squeeze in.

Also I want to find another shell for it, thinking to maybe go touring or rally car, not sure what else to look at...

[ChrisRx718 4470]

Thanks @ThunderDragonCy & @Grotty Otty, that makes sense. I think it looks better like this, so I'm going to leave it 

18 minutes ago, Mark_C said:

I've got a TA05IFS on the way, what lipo packs fit best ? some cars have a little more space in and you can get a hard case pack thats a tiny ibt bigger than the traditional nimh stick, so just wondering what I can squeeze in.

Also I want to find another shell for it, thinking to maybe go touring or rally car, not sure what else to look at...

I haven't had an issue fitting any of my LiPo packs, I have a Turnigy Nano Tech 4.2 semi-round hard case which is a really tight squeeze (pic below), it has a rounded top and the power wires are very snug up against the rear bulkhead, but it fits! I also can't see that a square case LiPo with the power leads on the top face would work, because the battery brace is diagonal so it would interfere. 

My other one which fits is a YUKI Brainergy 4000 round-case, but I'm not sure if these are still available.

Measuring the battery tray at approx 140.5mm long, 48.9mm wide and 24.6mm tall. Crucially, you want the wires to exit the battery pack in the centre; like this:

[ChrisRx718 4470]

Used up all my blue screws, refitted the bumper. I really wanted to treat this to a new front bumper, but everywhere seemed to have sold out! I believe it's the same item on an F103GT.

It's so pretty!

Finishing bits now, electronics.

I have this setup to go in;

TBLE02S ESC
TBLM01S 10.5t
Blue-Bird 621mg Servo
HobbyKing 3100 receiver

(incorrect pinion fitted to motor in that pic)

1st job is to center the servo and fit the horn / saver. In this case I had a 3Racing hi-torque saver, which is a blatant rip off of Tamiya's 51000 but a fraction of the cost. Sorry Tamiya purists!

All assembled. I forgot what a pain it is to fit a servo in a TA05 tub - you need to massacre the servo case by removing a portion of it's mounting lugs (see bottom left of servo in below image)

I also found a 3Racing aluminium servo horn, albeit in dark blue not Tamiya blue. Ah well, function over form I guess!

I then went ahead and threw the motor in:

That's going to make fitting the sensor cable somewhat tricky!

All finished:

I had to clock the motor to get the sensor cable connected. 

Once installed I ran through the setup procedure for the TBLE02S (which I've not used before)

At first the motor was reversed. This is where I messed up.

Instead of reversing the channel on my transmitter, I thought I knew better and switched one of the motor cables over (this usually works with brushless systems, in my experience)

I think I've killed it.

RIP TBLE02S.

Does anyone know what the footprint is of the Hobbywing 10BL120? I'm off to see if I can find a manual now but it would be mighty helpful, I'm thinking of investing in one of those!

[howaboutme 247]

My only comment is that blue is so pretty.

[Mark_C 198]

Oh dear, poor little ESC.

I've used hobbywing 1060s with brushed motors and have the dual motor output model too, never had an issue but obviously brushed is a lot simpler.

Is there any chance of fitting a battery 25mm deep ? I can't find a 3S that is less than that at the moment.Maybe I'll have to go with a 2S. I would buy the battery you use, but need a deans connector.

[ThunderDragonCy 7881]

6 hours ago, ChrisRx718 said:

Used up all my blue screws, refitted the bumper. I really wanted to treat this to a new front bumper, but everywhere seemed to have sold out! I believe it's the same item on an F103GT.

It's so pretty!

Finishing bits now, electronics.

I have this setup to go in;

TBLE02S ESC
TBLM01S 10.5t
Blue-Bird 621mg Servo
HobbyKing 3100 receiver

(incorrect pinion fitted to motor in that pic)

1st job is to center the servo and fit the horn / saver. In this case I had a 3Racing hi-torque saver, which is a blatant rip off of Tamiya's 51000 but a fraction of the cost. Sorry Tamiya purists!

All assembled. I forgot what a pain it is to fit a servo in a TA05 tub - you need to massacre the servo case by removing a portion of it's mounting lugs (see bottom left of servo in below image)

I also found a 3Racing aluminium servo horn, albeit in dark blue not Tamiya blue. Ah well, function over form I guess!

I then went ahead and threw the motor in:

That's going to make fitting the sensor cable somewhat tricky!

All finished:

I had to clock the motor to get the sensor cable connected. 

Once installed I ran through the setup procedure for the TBLE02S (which I've not used before)

At first the motor was reversed. This is where I messed up.

Instead of reversing the channel on my transmitter, I thought I knew better and switched one of the motor cables over (this usually works with brushless systems, in my experience)

I think I've killed it.

RIP TBLE02S.

Does anyone know what the footprint is of the Hobbywing 10BL120? I'm off to see if I can find a manual now but it would be mighty helpful, I'm thinking of investing in one of those!

I haven't got one to hand to measure, but the footprint is definitely similar. I have both ESCs and have swapped one the other with no issues. They are much taller though, with the fan. 

[ChrisRx718 4470]

Someone kindly measured the ESC for me on FaceBook:

10BL120 footprint: 43 x 30.5mm 

Space in TA05 chassis: 43.5 x 35.5mm

Super, super tight. What's more the switch harness and receiver wires exit out of the long end of the ESC, but halfway up the casing. Whether this will be enough to clear the 'tub' side I'm not sure. The TA05 also has a notch where the chassis is physically wider towards the motor position, so the wires might just fit there.

Alternatively, does anyone else have a recommendation on a budget brushless ESC for my Tamiya 10.5T or shall I just go back to brushed and stick a faithful 1060 in there?!!

[ThunderDragonCy 7881]

My Justock XR10 60a zero timing esc in my TA06 is smaller than that. No timing change in there, but all the other functions are same as the 10BL120. To be honest, with 4.5FDR my blinky TA06 absoultely flies with a 17.5 motor. Goodness knows how fast that will be with 10.5!

[ChrisRx718 4470]

26 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

My Justock XR10 60a zero timing esc in my TA06 is smaller than that. No timing change in there, but all the other functions are same as the 10BL120. To be honest, with 4.5FDR my blinky TA06 absoultely flies with a 17.5 motor. Goodness knows how fast that will be with 10.5!

I'll be honest, I've never changed the stock gearing on this, so whatever it came with standard is what this is running 

It worked for me at my first event so I never changed it. That was with a 19T brushed motor, so I thought a 10.5T brushless would be roughly the equivalent?

The XR10 looks reasonably priced (£45) but it looks identical to the 10BL60 (60 amp version of the 120...) save for the heatsink?

Do I need 120A? 

Also the sensor cable is tucked away right at the bottom on that ESC, is that ever a problem? I'll never get access due to the tub chassis.

[ThunderDragonCy 7881]

Can't answer any of those questions for you mate. Sorry! 

[howaboutme 247]

I almost exclusively use the XR10 JS 60A's so can't comment on comparing w/ the 10BL60. I like it because it's a good size, better internals (I believe, heatsink being one of them), fan (I think) and used for racing so they hold up well. Is it needed for me? Probably not. Note that the 10BL60 is sensorless so if you want sensored, you have to jump up. 60A should be good for most applications but if you want to really turn it up on speed and performance, then jumping up to 120A is going to help. I like HW. I use them on my cars and helis and have both the programming card and the desktop app so adjusting settings is a breeze.

[TurnipJF 9192]

The 10BL60 is sensored. (Not to be confused with the WP-10BL60, which is sensorless, and a very different ESC despite the similar name.)

It is rated down to 8.5t for 1/10 onroad use, so should be plenty for your needs.