I finally caved and bought a lockdown kit! 2CV Rally :-O

[nowinaminute 2815]

I've been really anxious about my job security etc because of this whole Covid thing and keeping the purse strings tight but as time has gone on, the paranoia levels have decreased a little and I started toying with the idea of maybe getting just one kit to cheer myself up a bit.

Eventually I decided that even if a worst case scenario happens, £100 isn't going to make much difference either way so I started searching for something in that price range.

The budget ruled out most off-road models which I normally prefer ( I would have got a Manta Ray in a heartbeat if it hadn't been so prematurely withdrawn) so I started looking at what could be my first on-road or rally model. I considered the ******ya fat fox or whatever it's called for a while, I really like the idea of making a rally version of a truck like that but the conversion would have required extra parts and pushed the price up a bit. I looked at the M-06 VW camper too but even the thought of painting the body shell made me want to rage quit so I gave that one a miss.

I ended up narrowing it down to the 2 Citroen 2CVs, they are about as far from my normal type of RC as you can get and really cheap too! Because I'm not one for purely on-road stuff I decided to go for the rally version because at least it can cope with rough tarmac and scoot around on mild dirt and sand etc so I thought it would be a little more versatile.



It turned up today so hopefully I will get stuck into it soon. I've already decided on the power plant! I've been having great fun using brushless outrunners in my Tamiya Lunchbox and a few other models. It's amazing how much power a tiny little 450/500 class helicopter motor can give so I decided that such a quirky car deserves a quirky power plant so it will be the recipient of one of these £3 (yes three pound!) 2700KV jobbies:



Should be interesting! I might have to add some ballast to the front because this motor weighs about 1/4 of a silver can 

[Badcrumble 4203]

Good score!

I have one too but the body is destined for another chassis, the M05-RA chassis is being (slowly) hopped up for some tarmac / dirt action. There have been some cool 2CVs posted on TC but this is my favourite

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=133847&id=32151

That motor should make it bounce like a proper 2CV! 

[KEV THE REV 2319]

14 minutes ago, nowinaminute said:

I considered the ******ya fat fox or whatever it's called

14 minutes ago, nowinaminute said:

I ended up narrowing it down to the 2 Citroen 2CVs

      ,    ***** Seriously though , I like the look of this 'rally' car , and it is off the usual Tamiya radar . Good luck with the build through this plandemic 

[KEV THE REV 2319]

4 minutes ago, Badcrumble said:

That motor should make it bounce like a proper 2CV! 

just don't take it over a ploughed field with a tray of eggs in the back

[Juggular 4964]

I think that was a very respectable choice.  I like 2CV better than Manta Ray. It's so much better looking in my opinion.  With few mms longer shocks and some clay in the diff, it could run like a rally car, rather than an on-road car with knobby tires.  

 

[J@mes 2326]

It’s a neat kit, I went for one too. I’ll be along for the ride. 

[davidwj95 152]

I built one to match my real life 2cv.  It's a great kit and nice shell. I cut the wheels and tyres down to make them narrower but the profile is still not quite right.  I might give hornet tyres a try.

[J@mes 2326]

I used the smoothie tyres all round on the rally beetle & they look ace as they fill the arches looking more scale 

[Finnsllc 917]

Its a fun build. 

[Finnsllc 917]

23 hours ago, nowinaminute said:

I've been really anxious about my job security etc because of this whole Covid thing and keeping the purse strings tight but as time has gone on, the paranoia levels have decreased a little and I started toying with the idea of maybe getting just one kit to cheer myself up a bit.

Eventually I decided that even if a worst case scenario happens, £100 isn't going to make much difference either way so I started searching for something in that price range.

The budget ruled out most off-road models which I normally prefer ( I would have got a Manta Ray in a heartbeat if it hadn't been so prematurely withdrawn) so I started looking at what could be my first on-road or rally model. I considered the ******ya fat fox or whatever it's called for a while, I really like the idea of making a rally version of a truck like that but the conversion would have required extra parts and pushed the price up a bit. I looked at the M-06 VW camper too but even the thought of painting the body shell made me want to rage quit so I gave that one a miss.

I ended up narrowing it down to the 2 Citroen 2CVs, they are about as far from my normal type of RC as you can get and really cheap too! Because I'm not one for purely on-road stuff I decided to go for the rally version because at least it can cope with rough tarmac and scoot around on mild dirt and sand etc so I thought it would be a little more versatile.



It turned up today so hopefully I will get stuck into it soon. I've already decided on the power plant! I've been having great fun using brushless outrunners in my Tamiya Lunchbox and a few other models. It's amazing how much power a tiny little 450/500 class helicopter motor can give so I decided that such a quirky car deserves a quirky power plant so it will be the recipient of one of these £3 (yes three pound!) 2700KV jobbies:



Should be interesting! I might have to add some ballast to the front because this motor weighs about 1/4 of a silver can 

@Juggular

[nowinaminute 2815]

Well I made some progress today.



I had to drill a little hole in the chassis for the outrunner wires to come out of because when you reverse the shaft for car use, the wires come out at the mount. Picture just for example:



Not my favourite thing to do to a brand new kit but I'm sure it be feel worth it when that little motor is whistling away. I made sure I didn't drill across any joins or voids to avoid dirt ingress. Speaking of which I was a bit unnerved by the requirement to put little bits of foam in certain places presumable to keep dirt out! Hopefully it proves to be effective.

I was a bit disappointed to find the CVA mini socks I had laying around weren't a good match. The shock bodies on them are a bit longer that the stock friction dampers and it significant impairs upstroke. Maybe I can make up some extensions for the towers or I think there's some 3racing ones that aren't too pricey.

I was a bit torn between trying to do a realistic body or going with the garish and brash liveries you often see on racing 2CVs nowadays. I ended up ordering some PS24 fluorescent orange and the roof, arches and wheels will be black 

[Finnsllc 917]

can u explain the motor? @nowinaminute

[nowinaminute 2815]

47 minutes ago, Finnsllc said:

can u explain the motor? @nowinaminute

  

45 minutes ago, Finnsllc said:

can u explain the motor? @nowinaminute

It's an "outrunner" brushless motor. Normally you use an "inrunner" in a car.

I'm not a massive expert but I'll attempt to give a little insight.

With an inrunner, the windings are around the outside of the can and then you have the magnetic rotor on the inside which spins around. With an outrunner, the windings are in the middle and stationary and then the outer can has the magnets and spins. Only the mount on an outrunner is stationary.





Often with outrunners, the shaft can be loosened with a grub screw and moved so it protrudes from either end of the motor. In a lot of aircraft applications, it is mounted with the shaft sticking out of the opposite end of the motor to the mount:



But as long as it's reversible, there's potential to use them in vehicles too. 

Outrunners tend to offer more torque for their size than inrunners and motors in the vicinity of 540 size tend to have very low RPM and are use in direct drive situations a lot. For car use, they are popular with the crawling crowd. But you can also use this advantage to have motors smaller than 540 size but with similar levels of power and RPM.

A few years back, I got a 6WD Feiyue truck which came with a brushless motor that made the most unusual but intriguing noises. When I first took the body off, I could barely believe what I was seeing, the motor was barely the size of a brushed 380 can but offered better grunt than a brushed 540! It did suffer from slight cogging if you tried to make very slow starts but when it got going it was like a bat out of badword! I ended up trying that motor out in a variety of other vehicles and it seemed especially suite to lighter 2wd buggies and in particular, my Lunchbox where it's tiny size helped to reduce the unsprung mass on that heavy rear axle.

So, is there any real point to using them? Not particularly but I just think they are a bit different and it amazes me that you can buy brushless motors for around £3-10 that in the right application can give fantastic performance. I currently have a 4400KV one in my Lunchbox and it flies!

I also love the distinctive sound they make, kind of like KITT from knight rider or something like that!
 

Long story short: Cheap, quirky and a bit different. A bit pointless but I guess this hobby is all about doing whatever appeals to you!

I just figured the 2CV is a quirky car so why not try an unusual power source too?

[Finnsllc 917]

@nowinaminute well ok then!!

[Yonez 180]

Interesting. So even with the shaft reversed, the can is still spinning? I haven´t thought of that as an option for cars.

the spinning can must be good for cooling, but how will it fare if you get sand between it and the chassis of the 2CV?

The increased torque is a consequence of the multipole configuration.

 

[nowinaminute 2815]

2 hours ago, Yonez said:

Interesting. So even with the shaft reversed, the can is still spinning? I haven´t thought of that as an option for cars.

the spinning can must be good for cooling, but how will it fare if you get sand between it and the chassis of the 2CV?

The increased torque is a consequence of the multipole configuration.

 

I'll cross that bridge when I come to it 

On the DT02/03 it just seemed to fall back out most of the time. The bigger question is how will the motor cope with the inevitable sand ingestion? On my Lunchbox, after dozens of runs, the only consequence seemed to be some scratches on the magnets and powdered sand that needed blowing out. The motors are so cheap, even I can consider them disposable though so it won't be the end of the world if one dies.

[davidwj95 152]

I had a go at fitting a hornet tyre but it looked too big.

[nowinaminute 2815]

Well I got the chassis done today. The body will be a while off yet, waiting for paint then will need to build up the willpower to trim and mask it lol.

I was quite pleased with how it drove though except I need to lose the friction shocks ASAP. I will try and rig up some makeshift shock tower extensions so I can fit the CVA minis.

It went really nicely on smooth tarmac. I didn't really know what to expect having never owned a front wheel drive chassis before but it under-steered less than I expected and lifting off the throttle could loosen up the rear end quite nicely. It seems like a good combination of sharp steering but decent straight line stability.

In terms of the mild off roading I was interested in, I was pretty pleased overall! It even managed to scoot along on short grass just about. With something thicker in the diff it would probably do even better. It scurried about on dirt, fine gravel and dead leaves etc just fine. Rough tarmac and concrete wasn't quite as good but I think some real dampers would help on those surfaces. Obviously there's limits with the ground clearance and small wheels but when you get it on just the right surface it looks great kicking dirt out from the front wheels.

On the whole, I quite like it! Decent on-road and if you find the right off road surface it's great fun! Nice to have a car where you can pull brutal wheelspins without the fear of a backflip too!

The motor seems like a decent match, pretty smooth power delivery unless you try to rock crawl and it goes along at a fairly decent speed, nothing crazy but certainly faster than the 27T would manage. Battery life seems really good too.

[nowinaminute 2815]

I pinched this still image from remote addicted on youtube and (shoddily) changed the colours to try and give a VERY rough representation of what mine will look like.

[KEV THE REV 2319]

On 5/31/2020 at 12:48 AM, nowinaminute said:

Long story short: Cheap, quirky and a bit different. A bit pointless but I guess this hobby is all about doing whatever appeals to you!

Yes sir !!

[KEV THE REV 2319]

On 5/31/2020 at 12:48 AM, nowinaminute said:

  

It's an "outrunner" brushless motor. Normally you use an "inrunner" in a car.

I'm not a massive expert but I'll attempt to give a little insight.

With an inrunner, the windings are around the outside of the can and then you have the magnetic rotor on the inside which spins around. With an outrunner, the windings are in the middle and stationary and then the outer can has the magnets and spins. Only the mount on an outrunner is stationary.





Often with outrunners, the shaft can be loosened with a grub screw and moved so it protrudes from either end of the motor. In a lot of aircraft applications, it is mounted with the shaft sticking out of the opposite end of the motor to the mount:



But as long as it's reversible, there's potential to use them in vehicles too. 

Outrunners tend to offer more torque for their size than inrunners and motors in the vicinity of 540 size tend to have very low RPM and are use in direct drive situations a lot. For car use, they are popular with the crawling crowd. But you can also use this advantage to have motors smaller than 540 size but with similar levels of power and RPM.

A few years back, I got a 6WD Feiyue truck which came with a brushless motor that made the most unusual but intriguing noises. When I first took the body off, I could barely believe what I was seeing, the motor was barely the size of a brushed 380 can but offered better grunt than a brushed 540! It did suffer from slight cogging if you tried to make very slow starts but when it got going it was like a bat out of badword! I ended up trying that motor out in a variety of other vehicles and it seemed especially suite to lighter 2wd buggies and in particular, my Lunchbox where it's tiny size helped to reduce the unsprung mass on that heavy rear axle.

So, is there any real point to using them? Not particularly but I just think they are a bit different and it amazes me that you can buy brushless motors for around £3-10 that in the right application can give fantastic performance. I currently have a 4400KV one in my Lunchbox and it flies!

I also love the distinctive sound they make, kind of like KITT from knight rider or something like that!
 

Long story short: Cheap, quirky and a bit different. A bit pointless but I guess this hobby is all about doing whatever appeals to you!

I just figured the 2CV is a quirky car so why not try an unusual power source too?

Watch out for the crowd invasion @ 30scs on the left there !!

[Juggular 4964]

On 5/30/2020 at 7:48 PM, nowinaminute said:

the shaft can be loosened with a grub screw and moved so it protrudes from either end of the motor.

Aha!  So that was the secret!  So it's just like 540, except that the can would be whirring. Which would make that noise.  

I'm starting to think that I should give this a try.  Is the shaft 3.14mm?  Or do you need to get a pinion made for thicker/thinner shaft?  

 

[KEV THE REV 2319]

what is the motor / radio combo in your LB ?

[nowinaminute 2815]

22 minutes ago, Juggular said:

Aha!  So that was the secret!  So it's just like 540, except that the can would be whirring. Which would make that noise.  

I'm starting to think that I should give this a try.  Is the shaft 3.14mm?  Or do you need to get a pinion made for thicker/thinner shaft?  

 

Sometimes they don't even need to be reversed, they are already on the right side.

The shaft sizes vary but a most of the "450" and "500" class helicopter ones have the same size as the silver can. The naming conventions can be a bit confusing too as some companies state the actual motor dimensions and some give the dimensions for the rotor! The ones I've been using though are around 28-30mm diameter and of varying lengths. Longer ones tend to run cooler and have more torque just like going from a 540-550 or 380-390. Obviously bigger diameter ones have greater torque too but those ones tend to almost exclusively be much lower RPM. For example, the fastest 540 size one I have is 1700KV.

The only issue then is that the screw hole spacing is the same as a 380 motor and not a 540 so you need some kind of adaptor. Similar to the one that comes with a grasshopper to allow the 380 motor but without the offset. The length of the shaft can be an issue because of this too, sometimes they aren't long enough once you account for the width of the adaptor. I actually had to abandon my £3 motor and go to a £10 (still cheap lol) one on this car because of that.  Shoot me a PM and I may be able to help with adapting.

I know that sounds like a lot of effort just to have a quirky motor that doesn't really offer any major advantages but it's really not as tough as it sounds and can be done cheaply if you just fancy doing something for the same of it.

 

[nowinaminute 2815]

56 minutes ago, KEV THE REV said:

what is the motor / radio combo in your LB ?

It used to have the 3200KV motor that was in my Feiyue FY06 truck but recently I swapped it out for a Turnigy 4400KV motor. It's a little longer but still really small compared to a 540. The Lunchbox has low gearing too so it hasn't gotten too hot so far. I've run the same motor in my DT-02 and DT-03 on the 17T pinion and it worked great! It got a bit hot after prolonged use but nothing serious, certainly not as hot as a 12-13T brushed motor would be after the same run (which would be roughly the equivalent)

ESC is just a little SKYRC 60A unit.

Radio system is Flysky.