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nowinaminute

I finally caved and bought a lockdown kit! 2CV Rally :-O

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On 5/30/2020 at 4:48 PM, nowinaminute said:

  

It's an "outrunner" brushless motor. Normally you use an "inrunner" in a car.

I'm not a massive expert but I'll attempt to give a little insight.

With an inrunner, the windings are around the outside of the can and then you have the magnetic rotor on the inside which spins around. With an outrunner, the windings are in the middle and stationary and then the outer can has the magnets and spins. Only the mount on an outrunner is stationary.

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Often with outrunners, the shaft can be loosened with a grub screw and moved so it protrudes from either end of the motor. In a lot of aircraft applications, it is mounted with the shaft sticking out of the opposite end of the motor to the mount:

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But as long as it's reversible, there's potential to use them in vehicles too. 

Outrunners tend to offer more torque for their size than inrunners and motors in the vicinity of 540 size tend to have very low RPM and are use in direct drive situations a lot. For car use, they are popular with the crawling crowd. But you can also use this advantage to have motors smaller than 540 size but with similar levels of power and RPM.

A few years back, I got a 6WD Feiyue truck which came with a brushless motor that made the most unusual but intriguing noises. When I first took the body off, I could barely believe what I was seeing, the motor was barely the size of a brushed 380 can but offered better grunt than a brushed 540! It did suffer from slight cogging if you tried to make very slow starts but when it got going it was like a bat out of badword! I ended up trying that motor out in a variety of other vehicles and it seemed especially suite to lighter 2wd buggies and in particular, my Lunchbox where it's tiny size helped to reduce the unsprung mass on that heavy rear axle.

So, is there any real point to using them? Not particularly but I just think they are a bit different and it amazes me that you can buy brushless motors for around £3-10 that in the right application can give fantastic performance. I currently have a 4400KV one in my Lunchbox and it flies!

I also love the distinctive sound they make, kind of like KITT from knight rider or something like that!
 



Long story short: Cheap, quirky and a bit different. A bit pointless but I guess this hobby is all about doing whatever appeals to you!

I just figured the 2CV is a quirky car so why not try an unusual power source too?

 

This is so cool. Can you show some pics of the gearbox and how you mounted the outrunner? This sure does set to rest, at least for me, the question about whether an outrunner can handle sand.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, smirk-racing said:

This is so cool. Can you show some pics of the gearbox and how you mounted the outrunner? This sure does set to rest, at least for me, the question about whether an outrunner can handle sand.

I'm not sure it would last forever but it's certainly chewed up and spat out a lot of sand over the past year or so and kept going! So far only the magnets have some scratches on them but nothing major.

Mounting one of these on the Lunchbox is uniquely easy because the stock Lunchbox has that 10T pinion adapter.

The outrunner motors have the same screw hole pattern as a 380 motor so you can't use the Lunchbox adaptor but there just so happens to be a Tamiya car that uses a 380 motor with a 10T pinion on the same gearbox, the Grasshopper! For any other vehicle, using the Grasshopper adaptor would mean a major change in gearing because the mount is offset but the Lunchbox uses the same offset with the stock adapter so by using the Grasshopper adapter, you can mount an outrunner (or a 380/390 inrunner) and maintain the stock gearing.

Literally all you have to do is mount the outrunner to the Grasshopper adaptor and then mount the adapter to the Lunchbox gearbox.

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Second least favourite part done.

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Now to try and make straight tape go around curves in a small confined area and make sure it's all pressed down firmly whilst not touching the inside of the shell with my skin.

I gave it a good clean and now it's drying off. Tomorrow I will need these:

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It went even worse than I expected :(

I spent so long on the masking, even used some of that special tape for curves, I was quite pleased with the results before I started painting:

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I was meticulous in terms or pressing the edges down to get a tight seal but it still bled lots:

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Even where it hasn't really bled, the lines are still fuzzy and all over the place. Maybe I put the paint on too thick because I was so eager to do it after spending hours masking?

Nevermind, I thought. I have some Tamiya body cleaner at work, at least I can tidy it up a little.

Bu then I noticed larger masking tape I used had left glue residue all over the place. My own fault for using generic tape I guess but I could have sworn I've used it before without this issue.

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So now I have to somehow try and get all that off too but there's tiny dots of it all over the place besides the bigger patches. And even if something like the body cleaner works, what if that itself leaves a residue? Arghhh

I'm trying to be glass half full, I'm sure if I just went straight to the main coat it would still look pretty nice, even with the glue still there because lexan tends to hide many sins so with some effort, I'm sure I can at least partly salvage the situation but it's just so frustrating. I spent about 5 hours masking the body. Sometimes it's really disheartening when you're really bad at something you love. 

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You have my sympathies. I went through something similar with my Asterion, to the point where I put it in a box and haven’t decalled it or even run it, which is a waste!

Get that body cleaner on it  and see how you get on. I wasn’t brave enough with it when I used it last but it is a learning process, next time we will do better...

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Thd body cleaner is pretty good and should evaporate off like isopropyl without leaving any residue once you have got the glue off.

For the bleeds you might be able to remove them with a scalpel blade or pin - ive had worse and managed to save it just go gently so as not to scratch the shell.

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I was expecting the arches to be a bit naff despite my best efforts but the glue and bleeding was the icing on the cake lol.

Oh well, I'm going to be optimistic, the bleeds and glue should come off easy enough and then it should be about where unexpected ie: nice finish but arch lines a bit iffy.

I'm sure once it's finished and stickered up with the accessories on it will look great unless you look too close 👍🤞

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You could always use a thin black vinyl pinstrip on the outside to sharpen up the wheel arch lines if needed. You can get thin vinyl tape on ebay in different colours but black is easily available.

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58 minutes ago, Superluminal said:

You could always use a thin black vinyl pinstrip on the outside to sharpen up the wheel arch lines if needed. You can get thin vinyl tape on ebay in different colours but black is easily available.

The thought did cross my mind, might be able to convince it to curve a bit with a hairdryer too.

I've been looking at pictures of demo models of this car at toy exhibitions etc and the slightly imperfect arches have made me feel a bit better lol.

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Tricky bits those arches, I can relate - the Beetle was difficult for me. Just noticed the drivers name is ‘Jumptastic Jay’! 😂 the Tamiya driver names are great! 

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I've used Carson paint killer to remove small areas of paint bleed before.

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This is like the gift that keeps on giving :lol:

Cleaned up the little bits of bleed and got the glue off, felt pretty optimistic!

Started laying down the orange and it seemed to be going well, did a few coats and then put it down for the night. It needs more coats but it was already looking pretty nice:

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But then I took a closer look and realised there was some small areas of black under the orange :o:angry:

I have no idea how this happened, the original masking job was very thorough PLUS I went over pretty much the entire shell with body cleaner to make sure I got all the glue off. I really can't fathom how this happened, there was over 48 hours between the black and orange coats. It looks like a fine mist has clung to the shell here and there, like it was attracted to the static.

The only possible explanation I can think of is that there was some black dust settled on the black painted parts and it stayed there because those are the only part I didn't wipe with the body cleaner and then when I started with the orange, it displaced the dust?

Thankfully, most of it is in places where the stickers will hide it and some on the roof which will be covered when I do the roof paint on the outside of the shell. There's at least one area where it won't be covered though:

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I really don't know what to do at this point, I might finish off the coats and see how it looks overall and then maybe if it's too obvious, I can use the body cleaner and a q tip just to clear specific areas back to the lexan and touch it up. At least lexan is forgiving of stuff like that.

Oh well, chin up and all that! I'm still liking how it's starting to shape up despite mysterious forces working against me! It definitely has that garish budget motorsport look I was going for.

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Have you removed the film yet? Hopefully the black overspray is dust that settled on the outside?

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On 5/30/2020 at 10:04 PM, davidwj95 said:

I built one to match my real life 2cv.  It's a great kit and nice shell. I cut the wheels and tyres down to make them narrower but the profile is still not quite right.  I might give hornet tyres a try.20200530_144433.thumb.jpg.b204253f2bcce1ac5a1f798465d728ba.jpg

I feel the same way about the wheels and tires. Check out my thread where I 3d printed wheels and tires for the 2cv. 

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?/topic/92572-3d-printing-wheels-and-tires-for-the-renault-alpine-a110-and-citroen-2cv/

2cv Tire 1.jpg

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7 hours ago, J@mes said:

Have you removed the film yet? Hopefully the black overspray is dust that settled on the outside?

Yes I took it off so I could see clearly to make sure I got all the bits of masking tape glue off. It's definitely on the inside unfortunately. 

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@nowinaminute Get it out there and get it dirty, you'll not mind the black dust - it could be brake dust residue from racing?!

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6 minutes ago, Badcrumble said:

@nowinaminute Get it out there and get it dirty, you'll not mind the black dust - it could be brake dust residue from racing?!

I was thinking actually how it might be a good weathering technique lol. Maybe brush the shell inside with an old paint brush to build up static then spray black or brown paint in a mist quite far away from the shell and you'll get little deposits building up in a random pattern.

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It just keeps getting worse.

Tried to clean off a few black areas with the body cleaner but then when I went back over the top, there was a distinct lighter ring between the cleaned patches and the new paint, I guess the cleaner lightened the paint it came into contact with but didn't remove.

I pressed on but there's some parts that still barely seem to have any paint on at all such as panel lines etc. I warmed and then shook the can for about 5 minutes to get a fine mist but all this seems to achieve is that about 75% of the paint just floats away in the air even when I get quite close in. Remember the good old days when you could just brush it on?

I really don't know what to do at this point, the can is going to be empty any time now and I'm worried if I back it with white at this point I'm going to get obvious white patches. I feel like it would take a hundred coats to get the problem areas covered. Every single time I go over them and then hold the shell up I can still see light coming through.

I've never had so much trouble with/made such a pigs ear of a shell before in my life.

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Oh, and I can already see the paint bleeding through the window masks too even though in other areas, there's still a visible gap between the mask and the shell.



 

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52 minutes ago, nowinaminute said:

the can is going to be empty any time now

Correction, it was literally one pass from empty. This whole project was supposed to be cheap and I'm reluctant to spend another £10 on a miniature tin of spray paint just to finish a body that's already messed up. I've tried to be positive but it has gone from bad to worse. I think I'm just going to forget about it for now.

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Looks good. I like the color combo. As far as that bleed goes.... I di the f103gt body the other day. Masked it super tight. Somehow still got black under the white. No idea how it could have got there.

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I think it looks great with the black and orange combo, it’s a race/rally car to boot so perfect would not be realistic. 

And let’s be honest, it’s far better built than anything Citroen would have turned out back in the day 😂

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Guys, I can't fit my CVA minis but I have read that on the standard (non-rally) chassis, you can fit them and raise the ground clearance.

Seems like you can raise the clearance of a normal M-05 by fitting the slightly longer CVA mini but you cannot fit them to the rally version.
 



Does anyone know what the difference is in ground clearance between the rally version and a normal version jacked up with the CVA mini?

If it's about the same then it seems like it would be cheaper to switch to the non-RA parts and fit my mini CVAs than to buy 2 pairs of super minis? Sounds like you'd get better travel with the standard uprights and longer shocks too?

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Next time, try to brush or spray clear paint on the edges of the masking tape. If there are leaks anywhere in the tape, the clear paint will seal them up. Let it dry then continue with paint as usual and you should get a sharper line.

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Here's my work in progress c2v body with no chassis and free standing wheels. 

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